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Megachurch abuse of PPP funds is coming to light - Private Jet Included

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posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 09:17 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: ketsuko
Call me when California gets back the $8B in unemployment money that was embezzled from it.


Oh. You cannot criticize the religion of state, and the redistribution of wealth.


There is no "religion of state" and the redistribution of wealth from 99% of us to the 1% is very commonly criticized.

This is America; separation of church and state is woven into our Constitution.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: Southern Guardian

Im not sure you understand the issue very well.

But either way, I’m not happy about my hard-earned tax dollars being used to give billions of dollars to airlines and the entertainment industry via the Covid-19 “stimulus” packages. I’ve never been thrilled with my tax dollars being used to bail out banks and other large corporations.

There are plenty of uses of our money that many people don’t support, so you’re not the only one. What I’m trying to say is get over it, sweetheart. Quit your whining.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 10:07 AM
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Any church that reaches "mega" status is no longer a church. It's a cult. Most churches around my neighborhood are lucky to have an old worn out school bus fixed up by members with donated skills. Forget about a jet.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: KansasGirl

Yeah, but see, this is different. These are wolves within the flock of the Lord using the tools of Mammon to deceive the faithful. To use the House of God to defraud and cheat the ordained goverment of the US is mighty questionable, and might even amount to the Abomination of Desolation ... but it certainly does fly in the face of Jesus' own words:




12Then Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those selling doves. 13And He declared to them, “It is written: ‘My house will be called a house of prayer.’ But you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’


Matthew 21:12-13.

Praise the Lord!



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

You


This is America; separation of church and state is woven into our Constitution.


Woven? Care to cite what is written in the actual constitution of the USA vs individual states?



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Gryphon66

You


This is America; separation of church and state is woven into our Constitution.


Woven? Care to cite what is written in the actual constitution of the USA vs individual states?


See COTUS Amendment I.

I didn't mention the States' Constitutions; but feel free to do some reasearch on your own.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Gryphon66

You


This is America; separation of church and state is woven into our Constitution.


Woven? Care to cite what is written in the actual constitution of the USA vs individual states?


See COTUS Amendment I.

I didn't mention the States' Constitutions; but feel free to do some reasearch on your own.


So how many times is the separate of church a state actually mentioned or used in the US constitution?



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 10:33 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Gryphon66

You


This is America; separation of church and state is woven into our Constitution.


Woven? Care to cite what is written in the actual constitution of the USA vs individual states?


See COTUS Amendment I.

I didn't mention the States' Constitutions; but feel free to do some reasearch on your own.


So how many times is the separate of church a state actually mentioned or used in the US constitution?


Have you read Amendment I?

That should explain it to you.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 10:40 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Gryphon66

You


This is America; separation of church and state is woven into our Constitution.


Woven? Care to cite what is written in the actual constitution of the USA vs individual states?


See COTUS Amendment I.

I didn't mention the States' Constitutions; but feel free to do some reasearch on your own.


So how many times is the separate of church a state actually mentioned or used in the US constitution?


Have you read Amendment I?

That should explain it to you.


So? Something that is woven is the constitution is added by an amendment?

And it is true to say the term “separation of church and state” is never mentioned in the constitution?
edit on 21-12-2020 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 10:44 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Gryphon66

You


This is America; separation of church and state is woven into our Constitution.


Woven? Care to cite what is written in the actual constitution of the USA vs individual states?


See COTUS Amendment I.

I didn't mention the States' Constitutions; but feel free to do some reasearch on your own.


So how many times is the separate of church a state actually mentioned or used in the US constitution?


Have you read Amendment I?

That should explain it to you.


So? Something that is woven is the constitution is added by an amendment?

And it is true to say the term “separation of state” is never mentioned in the constitution?


Amendments are made part of the Constitution by ratification; see Article V.

You seem to be trying to nit-pick and ask if I meant that the words "the separation of church and state" appear verbatim in the Constitution. That was not my claim.

The contextual clue is that I mentioned that the concept appears and is sustained by the fabric of the Constituion, or if you want to stretch the metaphor, by the warp and woof of same.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 10:54 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

But you claimed “separation of church and state” is woven in the constitution when the actual phase is not used. And the current understanding of “separation of church and state” is not based on the actual wording of the constitution, but over at least 150 years of court cases and interpretations of the phrase, “ AMENDMENT I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

hrlibrary.umn.edu...

Is that a false statement.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: neutronflux

Yes, I am aware of what I claimed. The Constitution is a document intended to disperse and check the powers of the Federal Government in general by the structure of the Government, as well as specifically limiting what the Government can do in terms of restricting the natural rights of Americans.

If you disagree with my claim, feel free to say so.

However, if you'd like to hear from Madison, you know, the guy that is considered the "father of the Constitution" or Thomas Jefferson ... folks whose ideas were fundamental to the Constitution and our form of Government?

Both Madison and Jefferson make it quite clear specifically. Look up Madison's 1811 veto if you'd like more information, or Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists who asked him the question directly. Hell, even John Adams was very specific in the Treaty of Tripoli.

You see, at the founding of our country many Americans were subjects of the British Crown. In the United Kingdom, there is no separation of church and state, to wit, there is an official Church of England. When the colonists came to America, many of them came to be able to worship as they saw fit, and thus, supported the idea that church and state are not and should not be co-equal.

As you mention, in the years that have passed, the separation of church and state has been repeatedly confirmed by our judicial system under the Fourtheenth Amendment, which has applied the separation referred to in Amendment I to the States.






edit on 21-12-2020 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 11:12 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Jefferson? Instead of telling people your interpretation, why not quote the actual person. And provide context?



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 11:14 AM
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The primary problem with the PPP was that it gave preference to bigger companies with existing good relationships with banks.

Smaller companies; more in need of the aid; went to the back of the line and in many cases wound up with nothing.

Does it really matter which big companies got the aid but really didn't need it? The problem isn't with the companies; who's job it is to ensure the best possible outcome for itself; the problem is with our elected officials.... as it always is.


But sure; let's clamber about mega churches as if its them causing us problems... it takes pressure off our elected leaders, just like they like it.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 11:14 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Gryphon66

Jefferson? Instead of telling people your interpretation, why not quote the actual person. And provide context?




Because I'm only willing to go off on your tangent to a certain limit?

You know how to use Google.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Odd you refer to individuals, and not what is actually written in the constitution.

Shrugs.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

PPP was just another bank bailout/wealth transfer to the very rich.

Megachurches abusing the PPP is the topic.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 11:17 AM
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originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Gryphon66

Odd you refer to individuals, and not what is actually written in the constitution.

Shrugs.


Not odd at all. I referred to the specific individuals who were directly involved in crafting both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights who answered your alleged question directly.

I've been very patient with your attempt to derail the discussion, but if you have nothing constructive to add, we're done.



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 11:19 AM
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This is just the latest in a long strong of PPP abuse stories.

I see a lot of outrage depending on your particular political flavor, but they do all have one thing in common and no one seems to get that one:

Who approved these PPP loans? How did they get into the wrong hands, no matter which ones we're talking about? Why no outrage directed that way?



posted on Dec, 21 2020 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
Who approved these PPP loans?


Up to one million didn't require oversight, just that you got your application in on time for the money we are throwing out the window.




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