How do you all feel about people using Dr. as their primary honorific title but are not a doctor?

originally posted by: AScrubWhoDied
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

I've at some point been a software developer also and this is my exact experience.

This is why the premise of this thread is silly to me.

I don't think this mode of operation (ability over credentials) is the same across all professions, hence the point the OP was trying to make. It's unfortunate, but there are still career paths where the 'pedigree' of your diploma matters. In an ideal world, your personal skills and acuity would dictate your career trajectory, and how well you are paid, but 'personal connections', 'networking', etc still weigh heavy in most professions.

This is one reason why 'Diversity & Inclusion' grates on me. Why are we NOT evaluating our workforce strictly based on ability and performance? If every successful candidate we hire is [Asian|Black|Hispanic|White], I couldn't care less about their ethnicity/background. Give me somebody that is a good problem solver and a hard worker; that's all that matters. We need to trust in the dignity and moral compass of people to look past superficial differences, and me personally, I feel we're pretty dang close to that mark in 2020.

I do understand the criticism the OP is referring to. There are definitely folks that rely on their honorific title to bolster the correctness/validity of what they say. It's incredibly hard for the 'layman' to spot the B.S. and refute what someone claims, especially in medicine. The best practitioners of science do not "appeal to authority" and rattle off trivia and facts that they insist that everybody accepts as gospel. That what was so endearing to me about the work of, for example, Carl Sagan (and now his pupil, Neil deGrasse Tyson). His willingness and patience to share his insights and repackage his thoughts so that /everyone/, regardless of their intellectual capability, could understand and appreciate.

I know for my part, I never judge ANYONE based on their academic career or how far they advanced in secondary education. I'm like Missouri; you have to "Show Me" before I come to any conclusions.

a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

My experience is yes within their field they are extremely knowledgable. But having said that mey be incredibly stupid on just about everyhing else. I work with a professor want to know about chemistry hes your man. Yet he has real problems dealing with the basics of daily life. This man had to pay someone to mow his lawn because he couldnt figure out why his weed eater worked and would not start. Apparently he bought several weed eaters he said they last a couple of months then broke. I looked at him and said did you add oil? he said it didnt have a place for oil. He called me one day to pick him up because he had to leave his car because it got a flat. I said why didnt you use the spare and he said he couldnt find how to remove it from the trunk.

So you can be stupid in one area and smart in another because if i have any questions on chemistry hes the one to talk to.

originally posted by: Annee

I was unable to get a college degree, of any kind, due to a physical condition — unfound/undiagnosed. No one could figure out what was wrong with me. I was basically seasick (at least part of it). Seasickness is not conducive to stuffy classrooms.

I admire anyone who had the fortitude to stick with it until the end.

But, more so how they apply it.

Sorry to hear, human's are so weird at times. A degree is not a be all end all thing even a PhD. It is just a start to where you know nothing John Snow event. So many people have been extremely successful and never finished their degree[s) and others wear them like medals and suck...

You are 100% in "how people apply" and how people continue to grow into that expert/professional. A degree doesn't make you either just starts you on that path that can also be started without a degree too.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened

I know for my part, I never judge ANYONE based on their academic career or how far they advanced in secondary education. I'm like Missouri; you have to "Show Me" before I come to any conclusions.

I have actually had people interview with PhDs and the person on paper was not the person in front of me. I rarely look at degrees with the idea they made it past the initial HR review so at that point I just want to know if the person can do the job and more importantly will fit on the team.

I have also seen very questionable degrees in the the old.. Did you get your degree out of Cracker Jack box? This seems truer today than back when that statement came about...lol

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Annee

I was unable to get a college degree, of any kind, due to a physical condition — unfound/undiagnosed. No one could figure out what was wrong with me. I was basically seasick (at least part of it). Seasickness is not conducive to stuffy classrooms.

I admire anyone who had the fortitude to stick with it until the end.

But, more so how they apply it.

You are 100% in "how people apply" and how people continue to grow into that expert/professional. A degree doesn't make you either just starts you on that path that can also be started without a degree too.

Totally agree.

I find it sad though — in science (for one), there’s no way you’re gonna be seriously heard without the right credentials.

There does need to be more open doors for the self-learner.

originally posted by: dragonridr

So you can be stupid in one area and smart in another because if i have any questions on chemistry hes the one to talk to.

I love it when an engineer designs a piece of equipment, but they do not know how to operate it...lol

A 3 month internship is worth more than 2+ years of college in experience.... That is why internships are extremely valuable for college students specially in the STEMs.

originally posted by: Annee

I find it sad though — in science (for one), there’s no way you’re gonna be seriously heard without the right credentials.

There does need to be more open doors for the self-learner.

Self learners that are successful are typically extremely smart like Elon Musk who just has a BS level degree and doesn't even care about degrees in who he hires. Bill Gates dropped out of college his first year...That path is only for the super smart or super talented. The rest of us average people need schooling to prime the pump.

My degree is in psychology but I have gone a totally different path in my life, but the degree has helped me a good deal more times than not, but having only a masters in psychology means very little, so its basically a PhD or you are a counselor at best.

Most STEMs need a lot of college to get the ball rolling, others not so much.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I’d say both Gates and Musk are on the spectrum and their expertise is in marketing.

Just a side note.

Most of the PhDs I knew in college used Dr., and it was across the board, not just in the liberal arts.
Not sure what the big deal is. They earned it.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Well, they do that in Germany for STEM PhD, so whatever....I don't really care either way...

....but in the spirit of "equality", all post-grad degrees should be treated the same !!!


Post-grad ALL matter !
POSTAL for short...can also start calling me "Master"....

Everybody these days is either a doctor or an 'expert' sources say.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ketsuko

And you are the apparently the perfect example of a leftist who went to DefCon1 over the possibility that the press used Jill Biden's credentials to smooth over Joe Biden's mental state by implying she was a medical doctor and not a PhD in the use the doctor.

I truly thought she was a medical doctor... They tricked me lol

That says a lot more about you than anyone else. Best thing to do is educate yourself more and you won't come across as someone is just whining that the wife of the president elect is using the honorific she is entitled to.

I know that won't stop the whining so I'll stop biting.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
This is a simple question in how do people feel about others who have a PhD, maybe not even in a STEM degree to use Dr. as their primary honorific title? I work with about 20 PhDs in engineering and none ever use this. There are many Doctors like Ben Carson who was a top neurosurgeon that he and even the media didn't use his title once he retired from the medical field. It seems people who may use it in degrees such as liberal arts are only doing so to compensate for something.

Bottom line is it's a matter of personal preference.

Using a title, like using the letters after your name, means little outside a CV. It can be seen as precious, it can used to impress people who resent and mistrust intelligence. People who make comments like your last sentence.

But it is always a matter of personal preference.

originally posted by: Gandalf77
Most of the PhDs I knew in college used Dr., and it was across the board, not just in the liberal arts.
Not sure what the big deal is. They earned it.

Unfortunately, we have a culture that does not value learning or intelligence.

Had a client who had the title of Dr. and would actively correct anyone who didn’t address him with that title. He was extremely skilled and focused in his craft which commanded some respect, but it was mostly annoying to be around. This Dr had no experience in medicine but a lot in stroking their ego. During sessions with my client I would be told stories of their many studious awards and competitions they had won 1st place in... harmless but it was annoying.

a reply to: Xtrozero

a reply to: EndtheMadnessNow

Dr. Strange is a medical doctor although he is no longer able to do surgery. He could probably still do clinical consulting fairly successfully, but his ego would not allow him to accept that as he was a crack surgeon and his life was all wrapped up in that.

Also, the guy above your Dr. Strange photo is also a legit medical doctor. He just got into comedy and acting as a more successful career. He's sort of like Dolph Lundgren in that respect.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: EndtheMadnessNow

Dr. Strange is a medical doctor although he is no longer able to do surgery. He could probably still do clinical consulting fairly successfully, but his ego would not allow him to accept that as he was a crack surgeon and his life was all wrapped up in that.

Though if he was a surgeon in Britain, he would be Mr Strange - as that's what we do in our confusing mess of a system

In most other parts of the world all medical practitioners, physicians and surgeons alike, are referred to as Dr while in the UK surgeons are usually referred to as Mr/Miss/Ms/Mrs. This is because, from the Middle Ages physicians had to embark on formal university training to gain possession of a degree in medicine before they could enter practice. The possession of this degree, a doctorate, entitled them to the title of ‘Doctor of Medicine’ or Doctor.

The training of surgeons until the mid-19th century was different. They did not have to go to university to gain a degree; instead they usually served as an apprentice to a surgeon. Afterwards they took an examination. In London, after 1745, this was conducted by the Surgeons' Company and after 1800 by The Royal College of Surgeons. If successful they were awarded a diploma, not a degree, therefore they were unable to call themselves 'Doctor', and stayed instead with the title 'Mr'.

However it should be noted this only applies really to senior surgeons (consultants and registrars) - trainee surgeons are still expected to call themselves Dr. Just to add to the confusion presumably.

a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

Wow ... that is weird. Cannot imagine why a surgeon would not also be a doctor as that's how it works in the US. And yeah, I get that's how it started way back when. Just seems weird that they'd allow people to cut you up without being a doctor.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Its more of a "follow their lead" type of deal. If someone wants to be called Dr., ill do it. It doesn't bother me in the least. And I was raised to be polite, so there is that.

This is just dumb. Jill Biden wants to be called Dr., call her Dr.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The question is did she insist on it or did the press start it and did they do it to allay fears over Biden's mental status by making everyone assume Jill was an MD type doctor rather than an EdD type doctor? Was it a naked political ploy?

One way to find out would be to go back and see how many times they called her Dr. Jill during the Obama years and earlier.