How do you all feel about people using Dr. as their primary honorific title but are not a doctor?

originally posted by: uncommitted

As a rule it wouldn't, just in the media of your choice. I know a doctor of philosophy and she refers to herself as such, no one to my knowledge has asked her for opinion on a medical matter.

Is she also referred to as doctor generally speaking too? Such as you are at a party and she walks up and you introduce her to your friends as doctor so and so... And if you do, do your friends think she is a medical doctor or do they ask?

How many times did they say Doctor Stephen Hawking?

That might get us closer to illustrating the point. What about Doctor Einstein?

If we want to talk about people who commanded that kind of respect ...

originally posted by: uncommitted

It asks a question and provides no real answer. You really are clinging desperately to something very sad in a pathetic blog.

Seems you do not want to answer the question as to is this a norm you see? Are most PhDs you know referred to as Doctor by everyone? I have suggested a few times now that the ONLY place we see it used in the general sense is with the medical profession, just as we see professor used also in the general sense as it is attached to a profession. A PhD is NOT a profession so what is it that the person is trying to convey to the public with the use of doctor when it is not a part of their expertise/profession?

originally posted by: ketsuko

And you are the apparently the perfect example of a leftist who went to DefCon1 over the possibility that the press used Jill Biden's credentials to smooth over Joe Biden's mental state by implying she was a medical doctor and not a PhD in the use the doctor.

I truly thought she was a medical doctor... They tricked me lol

originally posted by: bluesman462002
When i was in the Military i was older than most when i joined .
26 and they were 18 maybe 19 i was called Agent Orange.
LOL guess you can guess my last name.
on topic i despise a self righteous prick who doesn't know crap
and expects to be called Doctor.
a reply to: Xtrozero

I was thinking it was your hair color...lol I was 21, so a little older than most... I have said in a prior post that when I see someone use the term doctor and it is not medical or in the professional environment the use is not typically for any good.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Annee

Society custom does not dictate that a person who has earned a doctorate should not use it.

Do you see it as a norm used this way? That was my question and NOT one's right. I have a right to be called Chief Master Sergeant, retired but I would find it silly outside of maybe the VA, or some professional military situation.

Norm vs right to?

I’ve been presenting Traditionalist vs non-Traditionalist in other threads. I stand with non-Traditional — just because it’s “always” been, doesn’t mean it should be.

I do find it confusing. Somewhere along the line, I believe a change should have been made to differentiate doctorates. But, that did not happen.

In conclusion — society does not have the right to deny or take away the right of someone who has earned a Doctorate title. It is their right to use it, if they wish.

BTW, I didn’t read any of the drama opinions regarding Jill Biden. But, I did read this article (you’ll like it): www.city-journal.org...

originally posted by: ketsuko
How many times did they say Doctor Stephen Hawking?

That might get us closer to illustrating the point. What about Doctor Einstein?

If we want to talk about people who commanded that kind of respect ...

Exactly...

Drs. have a doctorate degree. If they have the degree they are a Dr. yes I think there is something wrong by demanding they be called Dr., but i could give two #s. How many have hair on your face hiding who you really are?

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: YouSir

Ummm..."I am...entitled...

Which is precisely the premise of the thread...

Well along the same token, are people entitled that call themselves Mrs. after they are married?

Ummm...I really don't have a concern one way or the other...I was merely using that word selection to illustrate the thread premise...

To me the thread premise was about a false sense of entitlement...at the expense of those who suffer from said...
So your example would probably not fall within that narrow definition...

I borrowed the entitled statement from DISREALI and should have been more circumspect and respectful in my original response post to that member...

I could honestly care less what or how other people choose to designate themselves...and probably should have kept my thoughts to myself...

Thank you





YouSir

well its no lon

originally posted by: Annee

Norm vs right to?

I not sure if "right" is the right word. Anyone can use the term Dr...anyone.. Many do as it isn't against the law. I have a PhD in life as you do old girl... When I see it used outside of norms I tend to question the reason why, and many times (not suggesting in JB's case) it is not used with good intent.

I’ve been presenting Traditionalist vs non-Traditionalist in other threads. I stand with non-Traditional — just because it’s “always” been, doesn’t mean it should be.

Are we virtue signaling with its use...Are we doing something like Dr. Bombay selling elixirs? To be honest JB's name didn't come up until page 3 or 4.

I do find it confusing. Somewhere along the line, I believe a change should have been made to differentiate doctorates. But, that did not happen.

I liked this line from your article....

“The Ph.D.,” Epstein lamented, “may once have held prestige, but that has been diminished by the erosion of seriousness and the relaxation of standards in university education generally, at any rate outside the sciences.”

There is truth in that...anyone can get a PhD these days, it is not hard as it once was seen as a great feat for someone to reach the pinnacle of expertise in their field of work. For many today it is just letters on a piece of paper with no expertise involved.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I did specifically stated earned.

As in, legitimately earned.

There will always be charlatans. Which you keep bringing up. Not I.

a reply to: YouSir

False sense of entitlement or an appeal to authority. In today's world where everyone is all about the "science" and "experts", titles are big business as well as the authority it's imagined they represent.

originally posted by: YouSir

I borrowed the entitled statement from DISREALI and should have been more circumspect and respectful in my original response post to that member...

People who feel the need to do this are typically compensating for something that just their name doesn't provide as was suggested that most PhDs do not use the term because they either have nothing to prove or their names stand on their own merits. "Entitled" is the correct word and people feel they are "entitled" to have respect and so the use some honorific title outside of a profession to gain that desired respect in some way, well until it is questioned.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Xtrozero

I did specifically stated earned.

As in, legitimately earned.

There will always be charlatans. Which you keep bringing up. Not I.

I was just suggesting of what I observed when in this case it is used in a non-traditional way. I know you like non-traditional, but that does not mean its the answer to everything and not always good. I'm very non-traditional in many ways too.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Xtrozero

I did specifically stated earned.

As in, legitimately earned.

There will always be charlatans. Which you keep bringing up. Not I.

I was just suggesting of what I observed when in this case it is used in a non-traditional way. I know you like non-traditional, but that does not mean its the answer to everything and not always good. I'm very non-traditional in many ways too.

I personally think it is unfortunate distinction between the doctorate titles wasn’t made centuries ago. But, it wasn’t.

We have what we have. You can’t take it away.

It does fall on the individual how/when to use it.

We can see Dr. Jill's EdD position paper.

assets.documentcloud.org...

You can judge for yourself why we're wondering about the doctor designation. She earned her EdD, but is she really Dr. Jill?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Do we have a problem with
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr?

Do we always say Dr. ?
I know I have..

a reply to: Xtrozero

If someones prefix, or suffix, is an issue for you, then don't use it.

Other than that, its none of your damn business if that particular person chooses to use it or not.

This stuff is childish. How petty do people have to be to make it an issue of any kind?

a reply to: JAGStorm

I actually don't and not because I'm disrespecting him. He's Martin Luther King. I have more often referred to him as a Reverend which was more properly his profession.

originally posted by: ketsuko
We can see Dr. Jill's EdD position paper.

assets.documentcloud.org...

You can judge for yourself why we're wondering about the doctor designation. She earned her EdD, but is she really Dr. Jill?

Lol so looking at it I would say this...

1. Very weak...This would be laughed at in many universities. First year college level of writing at best..
2. 130 total pages, but 79 are really the thesis...the other 50 or so are references and direct quoted interviews.
3. 21 pages out of the 79 are not meat of the subject such as, forward, index, direct quote interviews, charts/graphs etc.
4. So 58 pages times 250 words double spaced per page equals 14,500 words that are truly the meat of her thesis...

So this last weekend my one son in third year EE degree at a top university had to do a paper for one class due the next week of about 4000 words as a home work assignment. So her 14,500 words is about 4 homework assignments for my one son.

I'm saying this to maybe provide a view point that a EdD is not that big of a accomplishment anymore as it most likely once was and is done more as a check the box event then some big time achievement.