How do you all feel about people using Dr. as their primary honorific title but are not a doctor?

Husband points out something else - If Dr. Jill Biden's degree is so worthwhile, then Joe ought to put her in charge of Education.

originally posted by: ketsuko


To expand, the above-mentioned PhD could be a professor at a university and go by Professor So-and-So rather than by doctor as much.

and to complicate things further, Professor means different things - and different status - in different countries.

originally posted by: ketsuko

To expand, the above-mentioned PhD could be a professor at a university and go by Professor So-and-So rather than by doctor as much.

To bring this all back around... I thought it was strange JB was titled doctor outside of the community college where she worked in the past. I feel the media was playing on it as some significant roll she was providing, maybe to give the First Lady more street cred...who knows. It also seems many thought she was a medical doctor in the general usage of the title to include many liberals too. Wasn't something I really thought about other than thinking well at least Joe has a MD 24/7...lol

Now the media has turned it into a sexist rant to suggest all females with a EdD should be called doctor no matter what to align with some PhD male counter part in some way, and of course if you do not cheer this on then you are sexist and mansplaining...

originally posted by: ketsuko
Husband points out something else - If Dr. Jill Biden's degree is so worthwhile, then Joe ought to put her in charge of Education.

You saw my post on her theses... Lets just say I don't think it will be published anytime soon...

a reply to: Xtrozero

I feel if you have a doctorate degree and want to use "Dr.", then by all means, do so.

Some people are ignorant enough to believe "Doctor" only applies to medical doctor.

Now if someone on a personal level corrects me to refer to them as "Doctor", I am happy to oblige them as long as they refer to me as "Master." If we're going to use our degrees when conversing in an unofficial capacity, then I expect to hear, "yes, Master / no, Master" etc.

It seems there's been some recent hulabaloo with some people not realizing someone with a Doctorate in Economics, for example, is a doctor. They're stuck in a grade school level understanding of "doctors" as solely being medical doctors. Some of these are, shockingly, people who are able to feed themselves, and even use the bathroom.

originally posted by: dogstar23

It seems there's been some recent hulabaloo with some people not realizing someone with a Doctorate in Economics, for example, is a doctor. They're stuck in a grade school level understanding of "doctors" as solely being medical doctors. Some of these are, shockingly, people who are able to feed themselves, and even use the bathroom.

This seems to be the fall back answer...people are too stupid to understand, but that just isn't the case...As it has been said a number of times...The term doctor used in a general sense by the general public is pretty much for medical doctors. A PhD/EdD Doctor title is pretty much reserved to working within their profession. As I said if your neighbor had a PhD you wouldn't typically say hey doctor Smith, but you would if be was a MD.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Hmm, so maybe in the setting? I referred to my high school history teacher as "Dr. (Lastname)" after he obtained his PhD, but in a way, though I was no longer his student, it could be considered specific to our student-teacher relationship, though irrelevant to someone else. Its also someone I previously referred to as "Mr. (Lastname)", rather than by first name.

I refer to people I know with PhD's in physics as Dr. _____.

At the same time, I only refer to "Doctor" Tedros of the so-called World Health Organization with his title in quotes. He's not a medical doctor who tries to portray an image of being a health authority.

a reply to: dogstar23

The other thing about earning the academic title v. the professional one is the professional is specific while the academic is not.

The PhD in microbiology could work in a number of professions with that degree, and those professions could all carry different professional titles any of which could become like doctor for a medical doctor. So in that sense, the advanced degree title is nonspecific which would possibly be why it's not used in that same way.

To expand, the above-mentioned PhD could be a professor at a university and go by Professor So-and-So rather than by doctor as much.

I'll quote myself as reply.

It takes a lot of work to gain a doctorate. Usually a 3-4 year bachelor's degree followed by a 1.5-2 years Masters and then the Doctorate itself whichtypically takes 4 years full time (this varies). The academic commitment to a Doctorate is significant and the person who gains it should be considered an expert in their field.

As far as I'm concerned they have earned the right to be referred to as doctor.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Edumakated

The media does. How many times have you heard them refer to Jill Biden as a doctor, and that's her doctorate.

That is because they are trying to elevate her credentials.

It's a step up from the woman currently occupying the 1st lady title. Her lesbian photoshoots were impressive though.

a reply to: DoubleDNH

It's a step up from the woman currently occupying the 1st lady title. Her lesbian photoshoots were impressive though.

A conservative friend wanted to know why the first lady wasn't on the cover of any magazines.
I literally LOL'd.....

It was once my argument that posts on ATS could count towards a degree.

At a fee from academic institutions that register with ATS of course, and you have to be a registered student at that institution and ATS and you get say twenty posts a year (or whatever number) you can indicate should be marked or considered with your other academic work.

Obviously you're not gonna choose your worst, but the ones that show discourse analysis, contribution to your thesis (in my case HIV studies), and other themes you can justify in your annual abstract.
I thought that was a nifty idea to include writing related to your topic and reading, while acknowledging a wider discourse outside the millions of dissertations sitting unread in some library.

The whole thing with the BA, the Honors, the MA is that when these degrees were coined an "art" was merely a "profession". Some institutions now prefer the term "humanities".

Actually in SA, an honorific title can only be used on the campus whence it is given.
That's usually given to celebrities (in SA almost all of them elderly "struggle" icons - well you got to be associated with long-term activism), and ceremonial roles.
They might show up twice a year for an event, but they really have nothing to do with the running of the campus.
Just so we have ceremonial Chancellors, but the actual running of the institution is headed by the Vice-Chancellor.
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

Wow ... that is weird. Cannot imagine why a surgeon would not also be a doctor as that's how it works in the US. And yeah, I get that's how it started way back when. Just seems weird that they'd allow people to cut you up without being a doctor.

They are doctors! As I say junior surgeons are still referred to Dr SoAndSo but when you are fully qualified you become Mr SoAndSo - you drop the Dr title. It goes back to the 19th century.

But to get into Dr. Jill.

The important thing to note isn't that the left is arguing over the use of doctor. They're mad that anyone would insinuate a woman do it or not because that's sexist or something.

originally posted by: FatherLukeDuke

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

Wow ... that is weird. Cannot imagine why a surgeon would not also be a doctor as that's how it works in the US. And yeah, I get that's how it started way back when. Just seems weird that they'd allow people to cut you up without being a doctor.

They are doctors! As I say junior surgeons are still referred to Dr SoAndSo but when you are fully qualified you become Mr SoAndSo - you drop the Dr title. It goes back to the 19th century.

Oh I meant back in the day when it started. The surgeon not needing to be a doctor.

Dr. Dre the only doctor I gaf about.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

My experience is yes within their field they are extremely knowledgable. But having said that mey be incredibly stupid on just about everyhing else. I work with a professor want to know about chemistry hes your man. Yet he has real problems dealing with the basics of daily life. This man had to pay someone to mow his lawn because he couldnt figure out why his weed eater worked and would not start. Apparently he bought several weed eaters he said they last a couple of months then broke. I looked at him and said did you add oil? he said it didnt have a place for oil. He called me one day to pick him up because he had to leave his car because it got a flat. I said why didnt you use the spare and he said he couldnt find how to remove it from the trunk.

So you can be stupid in one area and smart in another because if i have any questions on chemistry hes the one to talk to.

I can definitely relate to this experience. I've definitely crossed paths with what I can only refer to as "savants" who, in a narrow discipline or field of endeavor, are unassailable geniuses, but lack capacity to keep their heads above water in the everyday minutiae of life that most people don't even think about, e.g. cooking, self-grooming, home maintenance, etc.

I can definitely think of a number of former classmates and co-workers that come to mind.

It never bothered me one bit; I admired intellectual brilliance, no matter what vessel or persona it showed up in. Now sometimes savants lack the understanding of social graces and manners and the self-awareness that can lead to awkward and unintentionally comedic moments, but again, I tend to not hold that against someone as long as they're not intentionally offensive, but just lack the particular genetic code for it (sometimes it seems genes pile up in one sector of cognitive capability at the expense of others)

What surprises me though is when we had these international conferences, and you hear form students in the Germanic countries - apparently they can go from nothing to PhD in four years. They call it getting "promoviert".

In our traditional SA system (although there are new private universities popping up now with different options) it can easily take you 10-12 years from starting a BA to a PhD in the humanities.
You need at least one BA, Hons and an MA before you can even start a PhD.

Almost twice the time to become a medical doctor.

But trust me, not every medical doctor, who you call "Dr.", is specialized or knowledgeable enough so that you want them operating on you either.
They're not all qualified brain surgeons.

originally posted by: PaddyInf
It takes a lot of work to gain a doctorate. Usually a 3-4 year bachelor's degree followed by a 1.5-2 years Masters and then the Doctorate itself whichtypically takes 4 years full time (this varies). The academic commitment to a Doctorate is significant and the person who gains it should be considered an expert in their field.

As far as I'm concerned they have earned the right to be referred to as doctor.

Not all Doctorates are equal...I can get one with night school and a simple theses in the end...about 48 to 60 hours more is needed after you masters to finish off a PhD, some places far less is needed.