How do you all feel about people using Dr. as their primary honorific title but are not a doctor?

a reply to: Gandalf77
It's much ado about nothing at best. At worst, it's anti-intellectualism. And nothing good has ever come of that. See the Cultural Revolution for one example.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The question is did she insist on it or did the press start it and did they do it to allay fears over Biden's mental status by making everyone assume Jill was an MD type doctor rather than an EdD type doctor? Was it a naked political ploy?

One way to find out would be to go back and see how many times they called her Dr. Jill during the Obama years and earlier.

There are too many to list, but here's a few....



obamawhitehouse.archives.gov...

OCTOBER 25, 2012 AT 2:59 PM ET BY MEGAN SLACK
On Wednesday evening, the Vice President and Dr. Jill Biden hosted a reception at the Naval Observatory commemorating Breast Cancer Awareness Month for survivors, advocates and women’s health groups.

The Vice President and Dr. Jill Biden Release 2008 Income Tax Returns

originally posted by: uncommitted

That says a lot more about you than anyone else. Best thing to do is educate yourself more and you won't come across as someone is just whining that the wife of the president elect is using the honorific she is entitled to.

I know that won't stop the whining so I'll stop biting.

Well first I'm not whining... I asked the question to start a discussion if this was the norm were members of ATS live and work. As I said I work around a good number of PhDs and only one is call doctor, the chief of engineering MIT grade, and it wasn't by his request. I also didn't put Jill Biden into the discussion and it was about page 3 or 4 where her name came up...

I also think I'm "educated" enough to understand...lol

In JB case everyone called her Doctor Jill Biden from day one, and the only time I have seen where someone is called doctor in the general society by everyone addressing them is with actual medical doctors as that is their profession. Joe's poor health also didn't help in assuming she was a medical doctor.

After her name was brought up and I looked into it I get this whole Joe "top of his class multiple degree" thing... She was in her mid to late 50s and went an easy track to get it...no real career as a EdD professional, just a piece of paper, and she is Doctor Jill Biden for all to witness...virtue signaling at its finest even if "she earned it".

Just my opinion...nothing more...I don't lose sleep over it, and of course I will not do a liberal 4 year constant whine so no worries.

a reply to: Xtrozero

She was in her mid to late 50s and went an easy track to get it...no real career as a EdD professional

Who are you to determine what an easy track is?

originally posted by: Rob808
Had a client who had the title of Dr. and would actively correct anyone who didn’t address him with that title. He was extremely skilled and focused in his craft which commanded some respect, but it was mostly annoying to be around. This Dr had no experience in medicine but a lot in stroking their ego. During sessions with my client I would be told stories of their many studious awards and competitions they had won 1st place in... harmless but it was annoying.

So what about someone who gets their EdD late in life, has no career built around it, not a skilled expert/professional as one would think, and does not even work in a profession to have colleague that would maybe use that title towards them, but in the general public they go by doctor...

a reply to: Xtrozero

The Jill Biden thing was my fault because I honestly thought it was what you were referring to because I'd seen it crop up.

Apparently some guy wrote an Op-Ed wondering why she went around insisting on it when most other PhDs do not as has been discussed here, and the left is going all ridiculous over it as some form of misogyny when the discussion is a valid one. So it has become something of a topic of curiosity. You brought it up at the right/wrong time depending on your point of view.

It's true - most people with advanced degrees don't insist on being called doctor everywhere they go as a title. They use it in certain specific circumstances usually related to their profession.

a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

Nothing like having doctor who rescue you from an alien invasion. Those darleks are brutal you seriously have to watch out they are always trying to take over the earth. By the way he refers to himself as the doctor but its ok with me if your saving the planet.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Xtrozero

The Jill Biden thing was my fault because I honestly thought it was what you were referring to because I'd seen it crop up.

Apparently some guy wrote an Op-Ed wondering why she went around insisting on it when most other PhDs do not as has been discussed here, and the left is going all ridiculous over it as some form of misogyny when the discussion is a valid one.

It isn’t just the Left.

It is getting ridiculous dividing EVERYTHING in left & right.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

Its more of a "follow their lead" type of deal. If someone wants to be called Dr., ill do it. It doesn't bother me in the least. And I was raised to be polite, so there is that.

This is just dumb. Jill Biden wants to be called Dr., call her Dr.

I typically associate terms like doctor, professor, your honor so on and so forth with a profession for the general public to use, otherwise I see it used typically only in a professional environment. Two common terms Doctor and Professor are used by the general public in the general sense to recognize someone who is actually in the professions of medical doctor or an acting professor. Having a EdD with no profession built around it or used in any professional sense seems odd to me for the general public to say Doctor so and so...

Meh, if they actively correct anyone in not providing the honorific then it would annoy me some. The title itself I don’t feel anything towards.

a reply to: Xtrozero

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: FatherLukeDuke

Nothing like having doctor who rescue you from an alien invasion. Those darleks are brutal you seriously have to watch out they are always trying to take over the earth. By the way he refers to himself as the doctor but its ok with me if your saving the planet.

LOL

I had thought of pointing out that it's often a running gag too that when he's introduced as the Doctor, people continuously ask him about it and it has to be awkwardly explained he's "not that kind of doctor ..."

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Xtrozero

The Jill Biden thing was my fault because I honestly thought it was what you were referring to because I'd seen it crop up.

Apparently some guy wrote an Op-Ed wondering why she went around insisting on it when most other PhDs do not as has been discussed here, and the left is going all ridiculous over it as some form of misogyny when the discussion is a valid one. So it has become something of a topic of curiosity. You brought it up at the right/wrong time depending on your point of view.

It's true - most people with advanced degrees don't insist on being called doctor everywhere they go as a title. They use it in certain specific circumstances usually related to their profession.

I don't think you were the first.

Her case started my idea for a post, but I didn't want to go there and make it the main point of my OP. In her case I think the media is Virtue signaling like they always do. Maybe she didn't ever go by doctor until the media gave her that title once Joe decided to run and she just silently went along with it.

Who knows...

originally posted by: M5xaz
a reply to: Xtrozero

Well, they do that in Germany for STEM PhD, so whatever....I don't really care either way...

....but in the spirit of "equality", all post-grad degrees should be treated the same !!!


Post-grad ALL matter !
POSTAL for short...can also start calling me "Master"....

Germany is an extremely title centric culture as a norm, America not so much...

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Xtrozero

The Jill Biden thing was my fault because I honestly thought it was what you were referring to because I'd seen it crop up.

Apparently some guy wrote an Op-Ed wondering why she went around insisting on it when most other PhDs do not as has been discussed here, and the left is going all ridiculous over it as some form of misogyny when the discussion is a valid one.

It isn’t just the Left.

It is getting ridiculous dividing EVERYTHING in left & right.

That's because some people insist on making everything political.

Now I admitted that I injected Jill Biden into this, but I also explained why -- it was already a political topic of discussion in the country because of recent a WSJ Op-Ed. I honestly thought that was what sparked this discussion here too even if not explicitly stated.

It is legitimate to wonder though when most of us do or do not call ourselves by certain titles. The consensus here seems to be that for the most part, people with advanced degrees don't go around insisting on being called doctor to avoid confusion with the people in that profession. It doesn't mean they don't use the title in some specific circumstances nor does it mean they aren't entitled to use because they didn't earn it, just that most people who get called doctor are holders of medical degrees who work in that profession in some way.

originally posted by: ketsuko

The question is did she insist on it or did the press start it and did they do it to allay fears over Biden's mental status by making everyone assume Jill was an MD type doctor rather than an EdD type doctor? Was it a naked political ploy?

One way to find out would be to go back and see how many times they called her Dr. Jill during the Obama years and earlier.

I am thinking more along these lines...

Putting all these things into perspective now-
Isn't America that country where people obsessively turn their job titles into honorifics and expect to be addressed by them?
"Principal Skinner", "Coach Smith", "Chef Brown", "Dog-catcher Robinson", rather than Mr Skinner and Mr Smith and Mr Brown holding those particular jobs? And in some cases, the honorific is expected for people who used to hold the job in question- e.g. "President Obama".
So why turn up the nose at someone with a legal, above-board doctorate who expects to be called "Doctor"? Snobs, the lot of you.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
Putting all these things into perspective now-
Isn't America that country where people obssesively turn their job titles into honorifics and expect to be addressed by them?
"Principal Skinner", "Coach Smith", "Chef Brown", "Dog-catcher Robinson", rather than Mr Skinner and Mr Smith and Mr Brown holding those particular jobs? And in some cases, the honorific is expected for people who used to hold the job in question- e.g. "President Obama".
So why turn up the nose at someone with a legal, above-board doctorate who expects to be called "Doctor"? Snobs, the lot of you.

Well we have 80 million that wouldn't say President Trump...lol

Your terms are typically used only within the duties of a profession as the person is acting within that profession in some compacity...Not sure about dog-catcher though lol.

So we see the title Doctor used to identify a person who is a medical doctor as their profession. You see coach to identify the person in charge of a team, you see professor the same as a person being identified "working" within their profession.

With a PhD or EdD Doctor wouldn't typically be used in the general sense. If your neighbor has a PhD you would not say hey doctor smith, but if he was a medical doctor you most likely would. Now when Smith is at work or maybe doing something directly related to his profession such as giving a lecture he would be referred to as Doctor Smith more times than not.

There isn't too many honorific titles that are used in the general sense by all no matter what. Medical Doctor and Professor are two of the most common.

Insistence on honorifics is a sure sign of a) lack of self esteem and need for acceptance and 2) placing too much value on class and control and not enough on achievement. Do you really think Albert Einstein, Roger Penrose, or Stephen Hawking need to be called doctor? Those who produce stand on their contributions not an honorific.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
.Not sure about dog-catcher though lol.

It's possible that I accidentally made that one up.

a reply to: Xtrozero

The other thing about earning the academic title v. the professional one is the professional is specific while the academic is not.

The PhD in microbiology could work in a number of professions with that degree, and those professions could all carry different professional titles any of which could become like doctor for a medical doctor. So in that sense, the advanced degree title is nonspecific which would possibly be why it's not used in that same way.

To expand, the above-mentioned PhD could be a professor at a university and go by Professor So-and-So rather than by doctor as much.