So what does a bipartisan "secessionist" movement look like?

a reply to: Lumenari
Yeah..sure
Farm debt isn't an issue

www.fb.org...

a reply to: TheGhoul

I hear you saying "the workers will rise!"

originally posted by: tridentblue
a reply to: Lumenari

"Farmers and ranchers will downsize and starve the beast that they feel just stole this election. "

No they won't. You picture some rancher in overalls slaughtering his pigs to some temple of Trump. The reality is the guy in overalls will quit Tyson plant #46737, they will hire someone to replace him. His manager will keep trying to please his boss, all the way up the chain till your in some high rise building at corporate, where even the CEO is talking to shareholders he has to please by law.

You are missing about 70% of the actual production of pork in the USA in your example...

But you know what?

If that is what movies have told you about actual ranchers and producers, then that is what is real in your world.

So sleep well knowing that what you think HAS to be right...

And when that neighbor (you know, THAT ONE) comes by in the night 2 years from now quite willing to pop a cap in your dome for your last can of spam remember...

I told you about this in 2020.

Sleep well!

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Lumenari
Yeah..sure
Farm debt isn't an issue

www.fb.org...

Not for good farmers.

Do you know any?

Because I do... my last $2 million dollar personal loan I got from a ND farmer.

But you know what?

I've been told so many times the last few years that the left knows everything and doesn't really need the right that I am now in complete agreement!!!!

Go have fun! Everything will work out for you and yours!

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: mtnshredder
Can they really?
When you account for climate, growing season, soil type, etc., And then account for profit level vs debt level, it seems easier said then done.
And what happens to that debt?
Even if somehow a peaceful and amiable secession is somehow achieved, that debt isn't wiped out. There are courts set up to handle debt disputes between nations.

Don't get me wrong, I'm neither arguing for nor against secession. I'm just pointing out the inanity of some of these comments

I can’t think of one crop that can’t and hasn’t been grow within my state and surrounding states. Not to mention, I live in one of the biggest oil production regions in the country and one if not the largest regions for beef production. Hope you like salad...a lot.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Lumenari
No, you're missing the point
Most farms have mortgages and have debts for machinery and equipment.
They can't scale down and still pay down their debt
So , since they can't scale down, who will they sell to?

LOL, aren't we talking about what secession would look like? What makes you think the mortgages and debt from the United States would be transferred in a secession. There would be massive losses of federal property and stands to reason corporate and personal property as well. After all a New York bank isn't gonna be looked at kindly in Bocephus Tennessee

Not to mention who is going to come and take the farm and equipment,

That's really the point is all of this would be too complex to achieve peacefully and to damaging too achieve through any other means

a reply to: Lumenari

Did they call you plumbum in school?
Just curious

a reply to: tridentblue

You think the folks in upstate New York will find peace with NYC? Chitown with the literal rest of Illinois?

Its not states as much as rural and urban. Ive been warning of a major rural pushback for about 7 years on ATS.

The next flashpoint is wages and young people, which will tie in to this urban and rural issue. We all know what happens when people are not able to make enough to survive in large numbers.

a reply to: putnam6
Because in order to be recognized as a country they have to agree to certain terms, one of which is resolving disputes, including debt, in the world court.
If they want to go the North Korea route, and go it alone, fine
enjoy the economic sanctions
If not, then debt disputes will be settled

a reply to: DBCowboy

I say secede.

i agree, but if i recall correctly that has happened once. the states that did thought that they had the right to under the constitution. potus and scotus thought other wise. potus wanted to keep the union whole at at all costs, even if his opinion, views and actions on some of the issues weren't even what he put out in front of the public, and scotus said it was illegal in 1868.


this time it would be a whole different ball game. seceding states would have a very hard time getting supplies and would more than likely have to deal with the armpit countries and arms dealers of the world. then it would be near about impossible getting those arms unless another country join in the conflict. this time there's not miles and miles of coast line that can't be monitored, and very little manufacturing that would be needed, let alone the raw materials. NAFTA and GATT took care of that.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Lumenari

Did they call you plumbum in school?
Just curious

You are entirely correct on everything in this entire thread.

Have fun in Arizona the next few years.

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Lumenari

Did they call you plumbum in school?
Just curious

You are entirely correct on everything in this entire thread.

Have fun in Arizona the next few years.

and have fun in your imaginary make believe world where everything is fine, you're never wrong, and Huge corporations share their illegal plans with you

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: tridentblue

You think the folks in upstate New York will find peace with NYC? Chitown with the literal rest of Illinois?

Its not states as much as rural and urban. Ive been warning of a major rural pushback for about 7 years on ATS.

The next flashpoint is wages and young people, which will tie in to this urban and rural issue. We all know what happens when people are not able to make enough to survive in large numbers.

Very true. I signed a petition recently that a friend sent me (he lives in Central NY), to separate the state into two separate states. Central and Upstate NY (with the exception of a few liberal pockets) want absolutely nothing to do with NYC, they’re sick of their BS and the affects they have on them. They’d cut NYC off in a NY minute. LOL.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: putnam6
Because in order to be recognized as a country they have to agree to certain terms, one of which is resolving disputes, including debt, in the world court.
If they want to go the North Korea route, and go it alone, fine
enjoy the economic sanctions
If not, then debt disputes will be settled

LOL, that's the point this is why I am so against separating it doesn't happen peacefully. Hell, name one time when a country of 330 million people divided peacefully. The 2 sides don't even begin to negotiate till there has been war and destruction. Besides pretty sure the red side could give a rat's ass whether they are recognized as a country or not. When you get to that point, the red sections have more to import there would be countries that would want to business with them, but that's way down the road. I'm more talking what the first weeks and months would look like.

a reply to: putnam6

But isn't the point of starting a country the long term outlook?
I'm sure the idiots involved in CHAZ thought all was great for the first couple of days until reality set in.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: tridentblue

You think the folks in upstate New York will find peace with NYC? Chitown with the literal rest of Illinois?

Its not states as much as rural and urban. Ive been warning of a major rural pushback for about 7 years on ATS.

The next flashpoint is wages and young people, which will tie in to this urban and rural issue. We all know what happens when people are not able to make enough to survive in large numbers.

I actually agree, literally I can see America starting to fray, I've seen it over the years. That's why I made this thread asking about this. IS there a way to literally have two systems in one nation? So everyone can live in the system they want? Yet even in asking, I have people here talking about caps popped in my dome, saying "sleep well" and whatnot.

I've lived in cities. That black guy you see on the street works in factories that make US tanks and missiles, for millionaires who own the company. This idea of conservatives as "all the workers" or "all the rursl people" isn't real. Yet there is no interest in talking about a constitutional solution where we can have our own zones to actually get things done. What you are saying is largely true, so Would it requires conservatives to move to cities snd vice ersa? Maybe, but wouldn't it be worth it?

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

What would happen (in theory) is that China would move in and take control of the west coast and the leftist states seceding would welcome the Chinese.

It wouldn't be individual states so much as states (using their state rights) would cede federal authority over to China.

originally posted by: tridentblue
a reply to: TheGhoul

I hear you saying "the workers will rise!"

I hear you saying "death to america!"

a reply to: Lumenari

Until it becomes hateful again for them to see those statues and they pull them down like they're doing to Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

What would happen (in theory) is that China would move in and take control of the west coast and the leftist states seceding would welcome the Chinese.

It wouldn't be individual states so much as states (using their state rights) would cede federal authority over to China.

And at that point, we would be at war with China because they would have their beach head for invasion for their army. We would have a devil of a time digging them out between two mountain ranges and the Great Basin.

Or we'd nuke the left coast and see how determined they are to stay, except that would end up poisoning a lot of the plains thanks to the jet stream.