The Wari Wiracocha Runas Psalm

I was digging into Guaman Poma de Ayala chronicles and found some really interesting notes. He describes the first generation of Andean people as "Uari Uira Cocha Runa". They are believed to be a different race of people, they were considered "gods" by their descendant generations.



If you ever read Poma de Ayala, you probably know how hard to understand it is, even if you know Spanish. He uses a very rudimental language with many orthographic differences, comparing to modern Spanish. I Tried to translate the segment more relevant to this thread :

VARI (Uari) VIRA (Uira) Cocha Runa, the first generation of Indians that God brought to this kingdom of the Indies, those who came out of Noah's ark. Then he multiplied these by command of God and drifted into the world.

This first generation lasted and multiplied a few years, eight hundred and thirty-one years in this New World called the Indies, to which God sent.

These Indian sayings were called Uari Uira Cocha Runa. This generation ameathed to multiply and their desendence later called them gods. Counted from the years of six thousand and six hundred and thirteen years, they lasted the saying eight hundred and thirty years and multiplied very quickly because they were the first generation of Indians. And they didn't die and they didn't kill each other.

They say they spawned two by two, male and female.

From this multiplied the other generations of Indians called them Pacarimoc Runa "those of the aurora," the natives of humanity.

Andean people didn't have a written language, so sometimes you can find "Uari' written as "Wari", Wari was an ancient civilization, contemporary with the Tiwanaku, to give you an idea. They were so advanced that they survived a 30-year drought that put an end to the Nazca and Moche civilizations.

The Same thing happens with "Uira Cocha", as you can guess, it's "Wiracocha" or "Huiracocha", means "god". The last word "Runa" means "human".

I ended up reading a very good essay by an Ethno-historian, specialized in Andean cultures. that document presents a very interesting analysis of Poma de Ayala chronicles.

Guamán Poma credits the Wari Wiraquéa Runa with the following prayer to God :

"Lord, until when I will cry and you won't hear me and
I'll cry and you won't answer me".

"Qapaq señor !
Hayka kamam qaparisaq,
mana uyariwankiéu,
qayariptiypas
mana hay niwankiéu?

Seems like poma de Ayala added the word "señor" (lord) for a better interpretation. An extremely similar prayer is in the Bible too.

Psalm 13 : "How long wilt thou forget me, O LORD? for ever? how long wilt thou hide thy face from me?

You can find many other beautiful "Psalms" in that document. Very touchy prayers (Click the last link on the list).

My conclusion is simple, It's the same God. We are all His children. You may not believe in Him and I'll respect your opinion.

Thanks for reading dear friends.

www5.kb.dk...
www.ancient.eu...#:~:text=Wari%20Civilization.%20Definition.%20The%20Wari%20civilization%20flourished%20in,provincial%20capita ls%20connected%20by%20a%20large%20road%20network.
en.wikipedia.org...
en.ilas.huji.ac.il...
revistas.pucp.edu.pe...

a reply to: Trueman

Here is that first paragraph translated. I speak some espanol. You can thank the ladies for that one.

Although in general the data of Guamán poma that do not refer to his own family are considered reliable, his opinions on the worship of God and his image of the preinka history of Tawantinsuyu raise doubts. Despite the undoubted influence of the Spanish colonial elite on the thought and knowledge of Don Felipe Guamán Poma, I believe that his pre-Inka indigenous monotheism deserves a more attentive study. To indicate the simplest cause he attributes to Christian god the same facts that other chroniclers attribute to wiracocha or some god.

While an interesting document it's relating of myth as history is not supported by the archaeological evidence nor DNA. There was no Noah, no special creation just folks wandering by foot or by boat arriving in the SA about 15,000 (perhaps earlier) years ago. They formed family groups then clans, tribes and later nations.

The Inca were very late to the party and absorbed the debris of the many earlier cultures.

The Wari were a collection of city state. They existed for about 500 years being superseded by the Kingdom of Cusco that later evolved into the Inca themselves

en.wikipedia.org...:Map_of_Wari_and_Tiawaku.svg

By the time the gentleman in question started writing the earlier SA cultures like the Norte Chico that had formed around 3100 BC were forgotten.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: TheAlleghenyGentleman
Thanks. That made the thread more interesting.

Thanks for that. Peru/Bolivia are the only other countries I desire to visit these days.

Check out this guys youtube page:

www.youtube.com...

He has several books as well in regard to his theories, maybe not the best reads at times but definitely full of information that makes a person scratch their head.

a reply to: Trueman

I translated the rest but that last paragraph was odd and I even used a translator but to no avail for clarity. It is a prayer poem using ancient words like you had referenced.



Although in general the data of Guamán poma that do not refer to his own family are considered reliable, his opinions on the worship of God and his image of the preinka history of Tawantinsuyu raise doubts.

Despite the undoubted influence of the Spanish colonial elite on the thought and knowledge of Don Felipe Guamán Poma, I believe that his pre-Inka indigenous monotheism deserves a more attentive study.

To indicate the simplest cause he attributes to Christian god the same facts that other chroniclers attribute to wiracocha or some god.

In this essay I want to present and analyze only the information of the new coronica and good government to see if they present an image of God and of creation that can be attributed to the Andean culture.

For this I chose those fragments that contain information about days and especially prayers

First I will analyze references to the creator god and then to the times and worlds.

Guamán Poma attributes the following poem to the Wari wiraquča Runa:

“Lord, until when I will cry out and you will not hear me and I will give my voice and you will not answer me. Capac lord hayca caman caparisacmana oyariuanquicho cayariptipas manahayniuanquicho.”

originally posted by: Fools
Thanks for that. Peru/Bolivia are the only other countries I desire to visit these days.

Check out this guys youtube page:

www.youtube.com...

He has several books as well in regard to his theories, maybe not the best reads at times but definitely full of information that makes a person scratch their head.

Howdy Fools

Good old Foerster he never found anything he could make up something goofy about.

However, lets not disrupt this thread with debunking his stuff. If you'd like to go over his material start a thread.

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: Fools
Thanks for that. Peru/Bolivia are the only other countries I desire to visit these days.

Check out this guys youtube page:

www.youtube.com...

He has several books as well in regard to his theories, maybe not the best reads at times but definitely full of information that makes a person scratch their head.

Howdy Fools

Good old Foerster he never found anything he could make up something goofy about.

However, lets not disrupt this thread with debunking his stuff. If you'd like to go over his material start a thread.

I am sure, but whatever I am open to read things within my interest regardless of the high and mighty opinions from the ivory towers.

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: Fools
Thanks for that. Peru/Bolivia are the only other countries I desire to visit these days.

Check out this guys youtube page:

www.youtube.com...

He has several books as well in regard to his theories, maybe not the best reads at times but definitely full of information that makes a person scratch their head.

Howdy Fools

Good old Foerster he never found anything he could make up something goofy about.

However, lets not disrupt this thread with debunking his stuff. If you'd like to go over his material start a thread.

I am sure, but whatever I am open to read things within my interest regardless of the high and mighty opinions from the ivory towers.

By all means, read whatever you want.
But, when it comes to Foerster, keep in mind that you are reading the musings of a proven liar. I need only refer you to his lies concerning the Paracas skulls to point this indisputable fact out to you, but I could give several other examples.

Harte

originally posted by: Fools


I am sure, but whatever I am open to read things within my interest regardless of the high and mighty opinions from the ivory towers.

...however why are you reading material from a known liar who lies to make money? Up to you - I use to read large amounts of fringe so as to understand their position BUT I also read the materials from the scientific community.

May I suggest you read Foerster all you want, BUT also read what science says about the stuff he makes up - I mean why not read both sides? If you read only one side you my friend are the inhabitant of the Ivory tower, the one with the address on Ignorant Street.

"L. A. Marzulli and Brien Foerster Discuss Megalithic Ruins, Decide Native People Couldn't Have Built Any of Them" (Jason Colavito, 6/24/2016)
www.jasoncolavito.com...

"Return of the Red-Headed Cone-Heads: A Review of "Elongated Skulls of Peru and Bolivia" by Brien Foerster" (Jason Colavito, 4/7/2015)
www.jasoncolavito.com...

"Brien Foerster Invades "Expedition Unknown"; Plus: The Green-Black Comet of 1533" (Jason Colavito, 3/20/2015)
www.jasoncolavito.com...

"Atlantis in India and High Technology in Egyptian Tombs" (Jason Colavito, 4/25/2014)
www.jasoncolavito.com...

"Brien Foerster Accuses Me of Libel, Says Puma Punku Stones Came from Outside "Fenced Area" at Site" (Jason Colavito, 4/14/2014)
www.jasoncolavito.com...

"Purdue Refuses to Test Stone Pieces Brien Foerster Claimed to Have Removed from Puma Punku" (Jason Colavito, 4/5/2014)
www.jasoncolavito.com...

"Scott Wolter Calls for Congressional Investigation of the Smithsonian; Brien Foerster Discusses Alien DNA" (Jason Colavito, 2/7/2014)
www.jasoncolavito.com...

"Ancient Aliens Talking Head Searches for Alien-Human Hybrid Babies AND a Lost Super-Civilization" (Jason Colavito,
www.jasoncolavito.com...

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Fools

originally posted by: Hanslune

originally posted by: Fools
Thanks for that. Peru/Bolivia are the only other countries I desire to visit these days.

Check out this guys youtube page:

www.youtube.com...

He has several books as well in regard to his theories, maybe not the best reads at times but definitely full of information that makes a person scratch their head.

Howdy Fools

Good old Foerster he never found anything he could make up something goofy about.

However, lets not disrupt this thread with debunking his stuff. If you'd like to go over his material start a thread.

I am sure, but whatever I am open to read things within my interest regardless of the high and mighty opinions from the ivory towers.

By all means, read whatever you want.
But, when it comes to Foerster, keep in mind that you are reading the musings of a proven liar. I need only refer you to his lies concerning the Paracas skulls to point this indisputable fact out to you, but I could give several other examples.

Harte

Howdy Harte did you successfully hunt down and killed a innocent turkey this year and consume it as part of a barbaric ritual?

originally posted by: Hanslune
Howdy Harte did you successfully hunt down and killed a innocent turkey this year and consume it as part of a barbaric ritual?

No. I took advantage of another, unnamed person's slaughter of innocent turkeys. I also used previously murderized pumpkins in two pies, and the toasted offspring of Carya illinoinensis in a third pie.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Hanslune
Howdy Harte did you successfully hunt down and killed a innocent turkey this year and consume it as part of a barbaric ritual?

No. I took advantage of another, unnamed person's slaughter of innocent turkeys. I also used previously murderized pumpkins in two pies, and the toasted offspring of Carya illinoinensis in a third pie.

Harte

Criminal! I instead invited Mr. Capon to dine with us and he joined us and unfortunately tripped and fell into the oven. Inviting a chicken to dinner usually ends badly - for him. Standard Thanksgiving faire plus roasted parsnips for my British wife and lingonberries instead of cranberries - its a danish thing.