It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Thank you.

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

Why we cant measure the speed of light

page: 1
12
share:

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 02:44 AM
I figured i would give everyone something to think about and possibly solve.

First let me start by saying we have never been able to measure the speed of light we had to cheat to do it. Why you ask simple to measure the speed of light you need two clocks one at start the other at the end. The problem is Einstien tells us we can sink up these two clocks without already knowing the speed of light. So how did we resolve this use one clock and bounce it off a mirror. We calculate the distance to and from the mirror and simply devide it by 2.

Problem is we have no way of knowing if light travels different speeds in different directions. And the worst part is we have no way to detect if there is a difference. Ill try to explain this way lets say we have a base on mars and they needed to set there clock to earth time. how would you do this? Well earth could send a signal saying its 12:00 earth time. If the speed of light is constant in both directions they would receive it at 12:10 send back a reply saying its 12:10. And the people on earth will get it 10 min later as it will be 12:20 on earth.

Now the problem we have never proved light travels in all directions at the same speed and strangely doesnt effect physics in any way if it doesnt as long as we always get 2xC. Lets say it actually takes 20 min to send a message to mars and their reply is instantaneous. So earth sends a signal at 12:00 to mars. Mars receives it at 12:20 they use the asumption that light travels the same in all directions so they believe it is 12:10 their time instead of 12:20. They send a message back to earth that instantly travels back so earth receives the message at 12:20 and will still be exactly in line with our belief that light traves the same in all directions.

So here is the challenge find a way to measure light in only one direction. Warning as of now this has never been done but id be interested to see what ideas people have.

I will quickly knock out one for you, We need two clocks to measure one way speed. So if we run a pulse through a wire to set our time between clocks we still have no way of knowing if the signal is traveling at the same speed in both directions. Meaning we dont truly know if our clocks are the same. And one more thing it might only be a 5 percent difference i simply used 2 times c to get the idea across.

PS i will tell you what got me thinking about this we were discussing an aether and i used the speed of light as proof it doesnt exist, Then i realized i made an asumption by doing so.
edit on 11/22/20 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 03:03 AM

Wouldn't a laser be able to measure light traveling in one direction?

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 03:34 AM

originally posted by: Akragon

Wouldn't a laser be able to measure light traveling in one direction?

Lasers in labs do.
The speed of light is constant in a vacuum . That is why Al chose it as C .(no matter the direction)
Particle Accelerators (Colliders) can measure light . Not sure if that has been done . Most likely it has .

edit on 11/22/20 by Gothmog because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 03:43 AM

originally posted by: Akragon

Wouldn't a laser be able to measure light traveling in one direction?

No again you need 2 clocks you have to measure when it left and when it arrived at its destination. Relativity tells us the difficulty in syncing two clocks. This is why they used a mirror and only one clock to calculate c. If light is effected by directionality no matter how we try to figure out the speed of C will always use 2 directions. Lets say we use your laser and a camera. And we see how long it took light to cgo through a vacuume. The problem is we have to take in to account the time the light took to reach the camera. Meaning we are still measuring it in two directions.

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 03:59 AM

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Akragon

Wouldn't a laser be able to measure light traveling in one direction?

Lasers in labs do.
The speed of light is constant in a vacuum . That is why Al chose it as C .(no matter the direction)
Particle Accelerators (Colliders) can measure light . Not sure if that has been done . Most likely it has .

Einstine in his paper tells us he had to guess light travels the same between a and b as it does between b to a. However this has yet to be proven. Einsien basically set up a convention saying speed does not change with direction. Its actually called Einstein synchronisation Convention. He even admitted it would be difficult to prove the speed of light changes with direction.

As far as a collider that has nothing to do with light it uses particles so that idea is out also.

Im warning people this is a seroius problem in Science that is yet to be solved.

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 04:03 AM

Well... IF you say so brother

Heres a bunch of guys that film the speed of light... so i don't know why you'd think we can't measure it

Filming the speed of light

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 04:12 AM

That is not the one way speed of light that is the two way speed of light. Meaning we still do not know if it is always the same. All we know is 2 directions devided by 2 will give us C. As of now we have all agreed to say its c in all directions is the same but physics still works if the 2 way speed of light still equals c.

So if things are separated by distance we have no simultanaty. We have know way of truly knowing any two points share the same time, We can assume they do but what if this is the key to how the universe works and we made an asumption thats simply not true.
edit on 11/22/20 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 04:16 AM

I realize you are likely using a camera as an example, but rather than attempting that, wouldn't a sensor work better? So you have the laser coming from point A travelling to point B hitting a sensor (it doesn't have to be a long distance to measure). Point A and Point B are both connected to the same computer (no need to sync two clocks) and recorded as time sent / time elapsed before it was received.

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 04:16 AM
What are the 2 directions?

It sounds like you are saying that light might travel differently left as opposed to right.

Or are you talking about forwards and backwards in time?

You might clarrify your thought experiment more .

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 04:20 AM

originally posted by: sunkuong
What are the 2 directions?

It sounds like you are saying that light might travel differently left as opposed to right.

Or are you talking about forwards and backwards in time?

You might clarrify your thought experiment more .

It would all have to do with motion. If an object is moving towards you or away from you could effect the speed of light. Or if an aether actually exists which direction light travels may be 2 different speeds.

en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 11/22/20 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 05:08 AM

You don't have to measure the speed of light to show that it is isotropic (same in any direction). See Mössbauer rotor experiments.

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 05:26 AM

Direction is relative to an observers reference frame.

The light being observed is always only travelling forwards. Despite how an observer would/might perceive the direction of it to be travelling.

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 05:36 AM

Have you been watching Veritasium? He recently did a great video on this very topic.

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 06:02 AM

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Akragon

Wouldn't a laser be able to measure light traveling in one direction?

Lasers in labs do.
The speed of light is constant in a vacuum . That is why Al chose it as C .(no matter the direction)
Particle Accelerators (Colliders) can measure light . Not sure if that has been done . Most likely it has .

Einstine in his paper tells us he had to guess light travels the same between a and b as it does between b to a. However this has yet to be proven. Einsien basically set up a convention saying speed does not change with direction. Its actually called Einstein synchronisation Convention. He even admitted it would be difficult to prove the speed of light changes with direction.

As far as a collider that has nothing to do with light it uses particles so that idea is out also.

Im warning people this is a seroius problem in Science that is yet to be solved.

What would change the speed of light ?
What is the only thing that can change the speed of light significantly ?
If you know the answer , you know a mirror DOES NOT affect it in any way.

As Lucy would say , "Good Grief Charlie Brown"

edit on 11/22/20 by Gothmog because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 06:08 AM

Only the medium can change the speed of light...

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 06:23 AM

If you have a few minutes, watch the video I posted above. It goes into great detail about all of these questions. Physicist have been arguing this problem since 1905.

Basically, the speed of light is an accepted convention, no a verified fact.

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 06:43 AM

Because everything is moving, even the measuring tool? (Just spit-balling here.)

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 06:50 AM

originally posted by: Akragon

Only the medium can change the speed of light...

Passing through a medium such as a glass of water (theoretical)
But the only force powerful enough for a significant change ?
GRAVITY
Because gravity can warp the space/time fabric causing light to curve , all the way to bending back on itself.

edit on 11/22/20 by Gothmog because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 06:51 AM

However , I do the physics books .

posted on Nov, 22 2020 @ 07:05 AM

originally posted by: notquiteright

I realize you are likely using a camera as an example, but rather than attempting that, wouldn't a sensor work better? So you have the laser coming from point A travelling to point B hitting a sensor (it doesn't have to be a long distance to measure). Point A and Point B are both connected to the same computer (no need to sync two clocks) and recorded as time sent / time elapsed before it was received.

Doesn’t electricity travel at the speed of light? Do you take in to consideration the movement of the earth relative to the solar system, galaxy, universe? It is a complex task.

top topics

12