The Foundationless Foundation

originally posted by: Peeple

So explain to me how, if you believe in a mind creating everything from nothing is that possible,
if that mind has no information, no input and no choice because it was always predetermined that nothing is an unsustainable state, as proven by everything existing
can a mind that can't be a mind, because no information, no input, no choice is there to be had,
be the "higher dimensional construct" that's always existing, while nothing exists?

You see the problem?

Within the Mind was the teleological totality of everything that can be. This was included in the Alpha-Omega bundle... it includes all of everything. We as children of this Totality also have untapped potential as we realize it is our birthright to assume the gift of the Cosmological Parent.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Are you sure there is a 'you' doing thinking?

I believe in a higher collective Soul…so Yes there is a me…

Everyone's ability to think come’s from the whole…or is enabled by the whole…I like to think of it as the “Father and Son relationship….” It’s right up there with the expression “Outside of the Father I can do nothing”…

But it is still the Son (the individual) that makes freewill choices from it’s current limited experience…

So Yes…I do the thinking, with the help of the whole…

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Is there anything solid?

Well, everything is made up of vibrating Atoms, a lot of which contains “empty space”…(although empty space is a bit of a mystery in itself)…so no…nothing is completely solid…But there is the appearance of something solid…

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
There is no 'connection' .........because there is no thing divided.

No division....no separation.

I agree…there is no separation…but there can be a perceived separation…just like there is a perceived experience of something Solid…

When I used the word “connection” I was using it in the context of a parallel between thought and this Foundationless Foundation…of course nothing is truly separate as everything is made up of the same stuff…

Also the word “connected”, can be used to describe everything being together i.e. Oneness….It’s just an expression describing the same idea/thing…

When people have had a spiritual experience for example, they often use the term…”I felt ‘connected’ to everything in the Universe” etc…They are essentially saying they were unaware of the oneness of everything beforehand….Of course they were always connected or at One with everything all along…They just weren’t aware of it until the experience…

- JC

a reply to: cooperton

Instead of quoting my post how about reading it and answering my question?
Or at least tell me what that mind would be and how it could function in nothing?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: cooperton

Instead of quoting my post how about reading it and answering my question?
Or at least tell me what that mind would be and how it could function in nothing?

There was likely never nothing. Something always existed. This Mind always existed. Otherwise we must somehow come up with a rational idea about how something came from nothing. It is much more sensible that something always existed, and therefore a pure state of nothingness never was

a reply to: Joecroft
The 'son' is not the individual.
The son is the visible image of the invisible God.

The ever present appearance.....which is here is the image in which apparent things appear.
Nothing can appear outside the present image.......even thoughts that make believe there is another 'time' appear in the present.

a reply to: Joecroft

What you are actually is beyond words, but it would be not untrue to say you are nothing whatsoever other than pure, infinite, disembodied consciousness/intelligence; a field of miraculous infinite light; God dreaming itself; an infinite point of pure potential; or the infinite implications of nothing whatsoever.

The immediate presentation of this unspeakable actuality is the field of your experience, which is an instantaneously appearing virtual field of Radiant Presence as apparent qualities. This is the actuality of which every/ and any/ thing that you think exists consists. This is inclusive and complete; nothing whatever other than this field exists. In short, the entirety of Reality is the "bubble" of YOUR experience, the field of Radiant Presence, which alone exists.

This is the totality of Reality. This is not theoretical, but is actually, immediately real; always the case right here right now.
THE OPEN DOORWAY
www.theopendoorway.org...

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The 'son' is not the individual.
The son is the visible image of the invisible God.

When a I say “The Son” I mean the higher collective Soul of any individual…That higher Soul is the real You/Son/Person…imo

Of course, if you keep cancelling everything down you arrive at ultimate source…which is the Father…but the whole point of existence is to Become and to be!…

Itzhak Bentov talks about the progression or the evolution of the Soul, which he believes is what the Universe and everything in creation is designed to do/achieve. This isn’t new in itself, as the secret society of Rosicrucian's hold similar beliefs…

I just recently discovered this video…it’s pretty fascinating stuff…




- JC

a reply to: Peeple

Originally posted by Peeple
What do you mean with "thought"? Because that's a pretty advanced thing and if I understand this correctly you see it as foundation of the universe?
…

Originally posted by Joecroft
No…I’m not saying that thought is the Foundation of the Universe…but it is a possibility. What I was suggesting in my OP though, is that there is a clear parallel between this “Foundationless Foundation” and thought itself…

The “Foundationless Foundation” has the ability to move itself and “thought” appears to exhibit the same characteristic…I use the phrase “appears” because thought may rest in the “Foundationless Foundation” itself, and therefore couldn’t be it…if that makes sense…but at the same time it could be it! We don’t know for certain because we can’t reach the beginning of thought or the beginning of the Universe/All things…

I just thought I would expand and clarify a little bit more on the parallel between thought and this “Foundationless Foundation”…

When we go to grab a cup of coffee or think audibly in our mind…it’s our thoughts that activate those things; but what activates the thought in the brain…

In my mechanical clock example in my Op, something has to move the first cog, to get the other cogs moving/working…But with thought it appears to move/activate itself, which is the same characteristic displayed by the “Foundationless Foundation”…

And even if thought was just a cog or belonged to a series of cogs itself, something would still have to be those cog/cogs “original mover”…so either thought is the “original mover”, or it’s able to tap into that which is!

Just wanted to clarify it a bit further…

- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft


Itzhak Bentov talks about the progression or the evolution of the Soul, which he believes is what the Universe and everything in creation is designed to do/achieve. This isn’t new in itself, as the secret society of Rosicrucian's hold similar beliefs…

That is also the essential tenet of Jesus's teachings too. To be born again, not just by empty words of proclamation, but an actual metaphysical transformation into a new realm of existence (i.e. "the kingdom of Heaven"). This is not a post-mortem phenomenon, and i suppose this is the utmost fulfillment of out soul

a reply to: Joecroft

I believe to think audibly is called "speaking"

And that's another issue with thought: it requires language/images/symbols.
I actually agree with one little bit of cooperton's post: there probably never was nothing.
But thought/mind is far too complex to put it at the beginning.
The force of life = consciousness
not in a sense of awareness, thought, mind or anything
but at its very basis: the decision to move, the ability to interact

Like maybe the Higgs Field giving stuff mass, decoherence in a two dimensional "there's the edge of another me" that might be the force of life
A very, very far stretch from mind or thought, or the God cooperton wants

Perhaps ceaaless change and entropy are signs that there is no real foundation at all...only a stack of semi-stable foundations which give the comforting but ultimately illusory impression that there is stability somewhere...

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
The 'son' is not the individual.
The son is the visible image of the invisible God.

When a I say “The Son” I mean the higher collective Soul of any individual…That higher Soul is the real You/Son/Person…imo

Thanks for the video.....I really enjoyed it. I will watch it again.

I would say that the manifestation is the 'son'.....That, which appears to exist.
The movie that is playing out is what is happening...... there isn't separate things doing the apparent separate things......it is the 'one' happening/being.
The ocean is waving.

Of course, if you keep cancelling everything down you arrive at ultimate source…which is the Father…but the whole point of existence is to Become and to be!

But 'you' can't do it because the source is doing everything..... consciousness is unfolding.

It is knowing itself.....

The father and son are one.......there really isn't anything else ever.

It already is.

It's a movie.

a reply to: Peeple

Originally posted by Peeple
I believe to think audibly is called "speaking"

I meant speaking inside your mind…whereby you hear your own thoughts…i.e. without speaking with your mouth…

The question about thought was in relation to how does it get up and running…because it appears to happen instantaneously and autonomously…

Originally posted by Peeple
I actually agree with one little bit of cooperton's post: there probably never was nothing.
But thought/mind is far too complex to put it at the beginning.

But here’s the thing…all complexity and all possibility existed inside this Foundationless Foundation…For example the Big bang…was essentially all possibility condensed inside a single tiny point, which then began to expand outwards…of it’s own accord…

Originally posted by Peeple
The force of life = consciousness
not in a sense of awareness, thought, mind or anything
but at its very basis: the decision to move, the ability to interact

Have you heard of Quantum Entanglement…?...Einstein called in “spooky action at a distance"...

It’s a weird phenomenon whereby particles can somehow know instantaneously something about another particle, even when they are far apart from each other...It literally happens faster than the speed of light!

It’s kind of similar to neurons in the brain all linking up together to make us function…The Universe appears to be doing something very similar…

- JC

a reply to: Never Despise

Originally posted by Never Despise
Perhaps ceaaless change and entropy are signs that there is no real foundation at all...only a stack of semi-stable foundations which give the comforting but ultimately illusory impression that there is stability somewhere...

But “ceaaless change" is a process in and of itself though...and must therefore come from a starting foundation…

And as for “semi-stable foundations", (If they exist) would still be the ultimate plan of a Foundationless Foundation. You still also need a starting point or overall plan. Hence a Foundation that is Foundationless...

And this isn’t about wanting comfort…it's about using logic to discern that which always existed and holds everything else in place.

- JC

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Thanks for the video.....I really enjoyed it. I will watch it again.

Glad you enjoyed it…I just discovered Itzhak Bentov last week!…

I was going to add the video to my Op but didn’t want to scare people away lol

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

I meant speaking inside your mind…whereby you hear your own thoughts…i.e. without speaking with your mouth…

That's "thinking".
For me, basically because I have no good visiual thinking capabilities that's normal.
With... 5 or so, I remember I thought "to make navigation easier I will write myself my inner book" so I'm permanently doing that.

Well unless I meditate. Which is me training visual.

But here’s the thing…all complexity and all possibility existed inside this Foundationless Foundation…For example the Big bang…was essentially all possibility condensed inside a single tiny point, which then began to expand outwards…of it’s own accord…

As potential. That's the level before being "a thing".
Personally I feel this fixiation on everything as having "locality" as being a 1 on the matrix of "spacetime", a tiny point as you said is so obviously wrong when you think about potential.
That before was before spacetime existed. So the Big Bang was the moment when potential jumped the gap into being, and that happened everywhere-ish.


The crucial riddle

a reply to: Peeple

Originally posted by Joecroft
But here’s the thing…all complexity and all possibility existed inside this Foundationless Foundation…For example the Big bang…was essentially all possibility condensed inside a single tiny point, which then began to expand outwards…of it’s own accord…

Originally posted by Peeple
As potential. That's the level before being "a thing".

But if you think about something having potential for everything that we know and can see…then that potential was “something”….which put’s it into the “a thing” category…imo

Originally posted by Peeple
Personally I feel this fixiation on everything as having "locality" as being a 1 on the matrix of "spacetime", a tiny point as you said is so obviously wrong when you think about potential.

I was just paraphrasing part of the Big Bang theory…which postulates that everything expanded out from a tiny point…It may well be “obviously wrong” as you say…there are of course many other competing theories…

But remember, it’s potential as a “starting point”, for everything that comes about afterwards…

The idea that All potentiality existed at 1 point in “timelessness”… is not an idea that is trying to limit potential in any way…It’s just trying to point out that this “thing” contained all potential, and then “started” to unleash it…

Of course whatever it is…is beyond space time, so it may have been “unleashing it” for all eternity unbeknown to us!; in short, we may be seeing only a tiny fraction of it’s potential…But whatever it is…is beyond those beginnings…contains all potential for new beginnings and needs nothing to begin it!…

It’s the Foundation for everything else, and needs no foundation for itself…

Originally posted by Peeple
That before was before spacetime existed. So the Big Bang was the moment when potential jumped the gap into being, and that happened everywhere-ish.

The crucial riddle

Whatever always existed…always was “in Being!”

Yes, other things came into being from “it”…but “it” was already in being from eternity…

“A journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step” (Lao Tzu)

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

I just really want to emphasize that one main quality of potential: before being "a thing"

"Asking what happened before the beginning of time is like asking what is one mile north of the north pole."
-Stephen Hawking

a reply to: Never Despise
But there is no time.......

Has time ever been seen or heard?

Time is an idea.

Nothing is happening.