The Foundationless Foundation

When we think about building something in the physical world, we need to consider ideas, planning, execution and various other practical factors etc…

You’ve probably all heard the parable about a house built on sand. Which is a parable about how it is wise to build on a sound and solid foundation, which will support the rest of the entire house. You can’t build on nothing…you generally need something to build everything else upon. You need a “starting” foundation.


In reality though that starting foundation for the house, is not the starting foundation; because the house’s foundation is actually resting in something else…the Earth itself…which in turn rests in space, and in gravity, which in turn rests in a galaxy, inside a universe, and possibly inside multiple universes and on and on it goes…or does it…


It would seem logical that anytime you want to build something, that you would need something on which to build upon it i.e. a foundation that supports everything else. But that would lead to a paradox, as nothing could ever get built if everything required a foundation…and an infinite regress of foundations going off into infinity wouldn’t make much sense either.

So there must exist a “Foundationless Foundation”, which Requires nothing to hold it up or to keep it in place etc… And just for clarity, this foundation doesn’t have to be something physical, it could be a Principle, a Theory, or a Governing Force, or something else entirely that is beyond our imagination…


Having a foundation that needs no other foundations to support it, is great in theory, but nothing ever gets built without any movement…


Above is “Newtons Cradle” which demonstrates energy through movement…it’s essentially about movement hitting or connecting to another thing/body/particle, which in turn moves something else… The energy in the form of movement is said to be transferred to the next object/particle, which in turn gives it energy/movement…

Take a mechanical clock for example….

To get the clock up and running one cog is moved (The middle cog), which in turn connects and moves another cog, which in turn moves another, and so on…etc…which gets the clock moving, ticking and essentially working…Of course in this example a person moved the first Cog, or wound up the clock to get the first cog started…The person in this case is the “Original Mover”…

Just like we can’t have an infinite regress of foundations on which to build something, we can’t also have an infinite regress of movements which got other things moving…We need an original mover…commonly referred to as the “First Cause”. It would appear part of the Principle or Characteristic of this “Foundationless Foundation” is that of an “Original Mover”…

Now remember that a “Foundation” is something that is built upon and you can’t build without movement… So it has the Foundation of Movement so to speak, because nothing moved it or helped it to move…It could even be the case that Movement (the ability to be the first mover) is the Foundation itself…or is at the very least an aspect of it…

Have you ever seen a woodpecker pecking a tree in slow-motion, to one hundredth of a second…It actually just looks like a regular bird pecking a tree… but that’s only because the woodpeckers movements are incredibly fast in real life…

Now here’s something spooky to think about…The woodpeckers movements could be slowed down to infinity!… one hundredth of a second, one thousandth, one millionth, or one billionth of a second…and you could keep going on forever…

If you were to play the video back at one billionth of a second speed…the picture would look completely still, even though tiny unrecognisable movements are taking place…

Now if we go back in time to the moment just before the woodpecker intended to start pecking the tree…What starts that movement is a synapsis/thought in the brain…But it all happens within the blinking of an eye…or at least it appears to do so from our own perspective…

But does anything move the thought…and if so what moves it…Again you’d have to rule out an infinite number of movements or other things that get the thought up and running or nothing would ever happen…

Gospel of Thomas verse 50
(50) Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where did you come from?', say to them, 'We came from the light, the place where the light came into being on its own accord and established itself and became manifest through their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?', say, 'We are its children, we are the elect of the living father.' If they ask you, 'What is the sign of your father in you?', say to them, 'It is movement and repose.'"

Interestingly in the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus states that the sign that the Father is in us…is our ability of movement and repose.

This clip where Rey is standing looking into the Mirrors, is a great visual example of what I’m thinking about…

Her movements take place behind her before they happen in real time…

Her movements behind her are like a representation of her thoughts slowly becoming manifested into reality…Such as raising her hand and snapping her fingers etc…

In the clip Rey is looking for her parents, but all she sees at the end is Herself.

And "Hallowed" the name.

a reply to: Joecroft

Well said; it is in the movements of your thoughts, that create the foundation of your own existence. For without movement, we are at a stand still.

a reply to: SeektoUnderstand

Even the Big Bang theory (creation through science) it began with a predetermined “movement”.

a reply to: Joecroft

What do you mean with "thought"? Because that's a pretty advanced thing and if I understand this correctly you see it as foundation of the universe?
Below thought there's also instinct, or a reflex as reason to move.

thought
1 an idea or opinion produced by thinking, or occurring suddenly in the mind.
2 the action or process of thinking.

Your foundation can't take place without a very, or the most, complex system/structure in the known universe: a mind.

Where did that come from?

a reply to: Peeple

Damn, just went deeper

a reply to: Joecroft

'What is the sign of your father in you?', say to them, 'It is movement and repose.'"

Movement is easy to spot......but repose is overlooked.

placidity, peace, relaxation, peacefulness, tranquility, tranquillity, ease, rest, lull, silence, peace of mind, quietness, quietude, ataraxis, serenity, heartsease, quiet, placidness. repose(verb).

Surely resting in peace while watching the movement..... is what is longed for.

35 Inspirational Quotes On Stillness | AwakenTheGreatnessWithin
www.awakenthegreatnesswithin.com...

“Whatever you can observe is not you, and in your inner quietude, this will become apparent. Stillness speaks. Be quiet presence that listens.” Anonymous

a reply to: Peeple

Originally posted by Peeple
What do you mean with "thought"? Because that's a pretty advanced thing and if I understand this correctly you see it as foundation of the universe?
…

No…I’m not saying that thought is the Foundation of the Universe…but it is a possibility. What I was suggesting in my OP though, is that there is a clear parallel between this “Foundationless Foundation” and thought itself…

The “Foundationless Foundation” has the ability to move itself and “thought” appears to exhibit the same characteristic…I use the phrase “appears” because thought may rest in the “Foundationless Foundation” itself, and therefore couldn’t be it…if that makes sense…but at the same time it could be it! We don’t know for certain because we can’t reach the beginning of thought or the beginning of the Universe/All things…

I’m not saying I know for 100% certainty what this Foundationless Foundation is…although I do have some ideas; I’m only drawing some conclusions based on logical deductions…

Originally posted by Peeple
Your foundation can't take place without a very, or the most, complex system/structure in the known universe: a mind.

Where did that come from?

From part of my OP below…

Originally posted by Joecroft
…
And just for clarity, this foundation doesn’t have to be something physical, it could be a Principle, a Theory, or a Governing Force, or something else entirely that is beyond our imagination…

As you can see, I’m not saying this Foundationless Foundation is thought or is Mind…but I havent ruled those out either…

The problem with proposing what it is, or putting X label onto it…is that someone will always come along and say “where did that come from…?” etc…but the whole point is that something has to be able to stand on it’s own and support itself at some point in time or before time lol…or else nothing would ever get started or come about in the first place.

You see, we can keep pushing the question further and further back…but No matter how far we push it back there must be something that is the “Original Mover”, something that is self existent, sustains itself, and supports everything else…

We may never understand or know fully what it is exactly, but we can make logical deductions that such a thing must exist…

- JC

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Movement is easy to spot......but repose is overlooked.

That’s true. We need stillness to recognize when something is moving, or we need to at least slow down…

The funny part… is that everything is always moving lol Atoms are always in motion…

- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

I see. You're not saying it, but you're kind of saying it.

There might not be a beginning. Like people thought Earth is flat, turns out it's a sphere-ish thing.
Right now it looks like our universe is flat, might be a really big sphere too.
Time appears "flat", but on a quantum level it looks like it could be reversible.
If we talk about the universe, we can't say ours is all there is, there might be many.
The Big Bang might be a Big Bang and right now happening multiple times.

It's only in our head that things have to begin and end. But if you look at it all as just energy and mass in a dance where sometimes one gets bigger than the other but their total always remains 1, your beginning and your end are just pretty random snapshots.

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Movement is easy to spot......but repose is overlooked.

That’s true. We need stillness to recognize when something is moving, or we need to at least slow down…

The funny part… is that everything is always moving lol Atoms are always in motion…

- JC

"Whatever you can observe is not you, and in your inner quietude, this will become apparent. Stillness speaks. Be quiet presence that listens.” Anonymous

“In the midst of movement and chaos, keep stillness inside of you.” Deepak Chopra.
www.awakenthegreatnesswithin.com...

You do not have to actually keep stillness inside......just notice it.....it is always present. Stillness is the backdrop of motion.

Does the static screen on a tv get noticed when the tv screen is full of moving image?

Repose is overlooked.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Joecroft

Your foundation can't take place without a very, or the most, complex system/structure in the known universe: a mind.

Where did that come from?

The only solution that doesn't send us down an endless abyss, is that Mind always existed, and therefore never had to 'come from' anything. This makes Mind/Reason/Logic that solid foundation referred to in the OP.

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but Logoi will never pass away." Matthew 24:35

'Logos' means Reason/Word and is a reference to the primordial Cause which was both reasonable and having the ability to make an effect (referred to as 'movement' in the OP).

Take for example a 3D object and its shadow. If someone is seeing things from the perspective of a shadow, you could easily make an argument that the shadow is causing the movement of the 3D object because they are so intimately synchronized. But in actuality it is the 3D object's movement that causes the shadow to move. So too with our mind... our neural circuits and neurotransmitters are like the shadow that is instantaneously synchronized with the mind which is a higher dimensional construct.

a reply to: cooperton

So, "nothing" really is something. I think we just don't have the slightest understanding of what "nothing" is. We've always existed as a something, so the "nothing" is incomprehensible to us, but we came from that unknowable no-thing.

a reply to: cooperton

I know you're one of those faith people and want to believe that mind is God.
But just because it's comfortable doesn't mean it's true, or even a valid explanation, or actually explaining anything.

Let's stick with "mind" it is that what is thinking, feeling, making decisions, right?
Thinking we can define as processing information, which requires
Feeling in the broadest sense, you need a way to detect information, some sort of input and only with those two can you
Make decisions.
Right?

So explain to me how, if you believe in a mind creating everything from nothing is that possible,
if that mind has no information, no input and no choice because it was always predetermined that nothing is an unsustainable state, as proven by everything existing
can a mind that can't be a mind, because no information, no input, no choice is there to be had,
be the "higher dimensional construct" that's always existing, while nothing exists?

You see the problem?

a reply to: Peeple

Originally posted by Peeple
I see. You're not saying it, but you're kind of saying it.

LoL

I’m saying it’s a possibility due to the parallel between thought and this Foundationless Foundation…because of it’s similar attributes and characteristics etc…

In terms of my own personal belief… I believe there is a connection…but it’s not something that I can prove…

Originally posted by Peeple
There might not be a beginning. Like people thought Earth is flat, turns out it's a sphere-ish thing.

Well, in terms of this Foundationless foundation, it’s not a case of “might not have a beginning“ because it must have always existed…

It’s the “starting foundation“ for everything else…so it always existed and therefore had no beginning…

Originally posted by Peeple
It's only in our head that things have to begin and end. But if you look at it all as just energy and mass in a dance where sometimes one gets bigger than the other but their total always remains 1, your beginning and your end are just pretty random snapshots.

Yes, we can have the beginning of a Universe, and the beginning of a person etc…but something existed eternally that brought about everything else…

Energy is interesting though, because it can neither be created nor destroyed. “Newtons Cradle” which I mentioned in my OP, demonstrates energy getting transferred through movement. But you still need movement to transfer that type of energy to something else.

You need a “dance” as you put it, to take place…The big question is how…

Seeing as energy is eternal and this Foundationless Foundation is eternal as well…Then we can deduce that energy must be at least one of it’s attributes…

This brings up another parallel because “thought” is done through electrical impulses in the brain, so it’s essentially energy as well. And all energy is eternal, so when you’re thinking, you’re somehow! tapping into and utilizing that eternal energy.

Here's something interesting you might want to check out...

The document “The Analysis and Assessment of the Gateway Process” was declassified by the CIA in 2017…

The Analysis and Assement of the Gateway Process

Part of the document suggests that there is a link between Consciousness and Energy…

Here’s an extract…




- JC

a reply to: Joecroft

This brings up another parallel because “thought” is done through electrical impulses in the brain, so it’s essentially energy as well. And all energy is eternal, so when you’re thinking, you’re somehow! tapping into and utilizing that eternal energy.

Are you sure there is a 'you' doing thinking?

Is there anything solid?

a reply to: Joecroft
There is no 'connection' .........because there is no thing divided.

No division....no separation.

It is only the belief in words that makes it seem as if there is a separate you.

Thinking is thinging.

Words make believe that there are separate things.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: cooperton

So, "nothing" really is something. I think we just don't have the slightest understanding of what "nothing" is. We've always existed as a something, so the "nothing" is incomprehensible to us, but we came from that unknowable no-thing.

What if nothing came from the unknowable nothing?
Not even you!!

You most likely are ......the unknowable nothing.

To be or not to be??

Double post.