Pope Francis approves same sex unions - does he really approve homosexuality?

a reply to: andy06shake

I liked the one were he kicked the bishop's arse, those were classics and I suspect more true than many would dare to say.

You always used to see the priest's both catholic and Anglican as well as the Lutheran pastors with huge red noses from drinking all the time - more often those whom had a rectory to live in that is since they were not under the strictures of a monastic environment and were left to there own devices most of the time.

So add alcoholism to the mix.

But for me it is not how many bad but how many good there are, there are priests whom live in pure poverty and seek to help the poorest and those are true Christian orders, helping the poor is not a holiday for them but a way of life.
And very few if any of them have ever been involved in the pervert scandal's that so many of the fat silk wearing cushy life living lout's were.
Thank God it has come to light though, Jesus said everything done in secret would be shouted from the roof top's, death is not an escape for those closet atheist pedos disguised as priests.

Most priests even those in silk's are just wanting to serve God, some are not.

By Comparison most Politicians are in it for the power.

Why would being a priest attract a nest of pedo's?.
Position of respect and TRUST, position in which Children were if not any longer Vulnerable to there evil attentions, sadly they have probably infected the church - but fully seen by God whom HATES them (wolves in sheep's clothing attacking HIS children) for a long time.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I don't have a clue LABTECH767 I'm not a priest.

If it's any consolation ile quite happily take the proverbial urine out of any one of the other 4,300+ organized religious practices of the world.

I'm not up for discriminating.

Canny all be correct at the end of the day all the same.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
a reply to: Gandalf77

thanks Gandalf. I wonder at 83 turning 84 how long he will be able to do that, and who will be the next pope.. If a number of prophecies are true, 2020 - 21 may be the key years. For what? And how that step made by pope Francis fit in the puzzle? I guess soon we will know. Because he knows a number of secrets, Fatima and Garabandal included their exact dates (both have them we know that).

All great questions, IMHO. Prophesy is a tricky thing. For example, with St. Malachy's prophecy of all the popes, it's been pointed out that there isn't anything to suggest there can't be any number of popes between Benedict and Peter the Roman (the last on his list).

The third secret of Fatima is a big mystery. Francis has certainly seen it. Father Malachi Martin had seen it too but refused to divulge anything specific to Art Bell (or in any other interview). I'm pretty sure Father Gabriel Amorth had seen it too. There's been some speculation about dates based on their general comments, but they've already passed. I haven't heard if those documents actually include exact dates, have you? From everything I've read, at least regarding Fatima, it's more of a description of rather dire events.

End of the day, I'm glad Pope Francis is walking the walk. He truly cares about the oppressed and disenfranchised in this world. I tend to think he's just setting an example for these times by living the gospel.

a reply to: andy06shake

I know but neither am I though I did used to open the bible and it time and gain, different bibles not the same literal book from the same shelf beside my bed - open at the passage which read "Now you are become a priest of the order of Melchizedek", that was donkey's years ago and at the time part of me felt a calling but Hey I never even went to a religious school so despite loving God (I am a believer of course) I never did pursue it.

That said I do truly believe most of them are truly decent people but not all.
I know you do not believe but read this.
www.olrl.org...
Look how the evil priests are condemned before hand.

And you are not a religious hypocrite you just take the micky, Jesus did not like Hypocrites at all but he would probably talk to atheists even though he did make a point of saying those that say there is no GOD are fool's which is literally correct since he is God and the Word of God himself - he is standing right there and they are telling him he does not exist (see it from his perspective it's like a guy standing out in the rain saying it's lovely and dry out), after there own fashion they are religious because they believe there is no GOD that makes them believers and that makes them religious in there own belief.

a reply to: 2012newstart

I think this means that your gay brother/sister can come to Thanksgiving this year. I think Pope Francis realized that spurning, alienating and rejecting a group of people isn't a productive means of control anymore.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
a reply to: LABTECH767

pope emeritus Benedict said many times that he fully supports the only pope - Francis. I understand the desire of the ultra conservatives to turn back history using the name of the 93 year old Ratzinger to raise the flag. It won't work.

As of those "many" who want to leave the Catholic church in "Exodus",well why don't they do it? It would be better for the rest as well as of themselves. Just read what cardinal Burke and archbishop Vigano wrote, two fierce leading opponents of pope Francis. They do not intend to leave, they intend to sabotage from inside. Any other pope, even St John Paul II, would have excommunicated Vigano by now for his persistent and public denouncement of pope Francis (in his previous letters he refereed to the pope and the Catholic church as "Bergoglio and Bergoglian deep church").

Yeah, Vigano's been a real pain for Francis. Our parish priest had some interesting comments on that in a class I attended.
Essentially, it's a power struggle. Vigano has lost power and influence under Francis. And, as you can imagine, money could be involved as well. It's politics, basically, and all the usual issues that come with it.

a reply to: Gandalf77

We know the original Third Secret does contain a date. I forgot already where I read it. Was it St John XXIII (1958-1963) who upon reading the secret said it did not concern the time of his pontificate but that of a next pope? Of course we have the Neues Europa version that says before the end of the century, although we know that version of the secret is not identical but close to it.

Malachi Martin said really a lot. Besides other things, he said of the existence of extraterrestrials, and of a space object approaching us that Vatican observes
www.pinterest.com...
www.youtube.com...


Garabandal date of Miracle have been given to Cardinal Ottaviani and to St Paul VI by Conchita González.

In other words, pope Francis knows much more than his opponents, and has the right judgment for the right time.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: andy06shake

Why would being a priest attract a nest of pedo's?.
Position of respect and TRUST, position in which Children were if not any longer Vulnerable to there evil attentions, sadly they have probably infected the church - but fully seen by God whom HATES them (wolves in sheep's clothing attacking HIS children) for a long time.

Yep. Pedo's are sociopaths. They prey on the good will of society and seek out positions where they can exploit the vulnerable: churches, the Boy Scouts, day-care providers, teachers, etc.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Mate, i truly believe most people are truly decent, but not all of them, religion and politics aside.

The thing is we are all products of society as much as we are nature or god if that's what we want to call it.

Good and evil are very human constructs, add free will, or whatever constitutes our oversimplified interpretation of such and things get really complicated.

Im on the fence LABTECH767, don't ken what happens next.

But the human condition is rather a complicated affair with or without priests and/or religion.

a reply to: Gandalf77

And police, and politicians and just about any position which gives them power, influence and opportunity to seek to exploit the vulnerable, just like wolves in sheep's clothing which indeed they are.
They blacken the church but the Church shall overcome, it may be smaller or it may be larger but it will survive and never fall.

a reply to: andy06shake

Agree one hundred percent, we are all blind and seeking the light in our own way.
Sometimes trust is abused and used for control, for greed and power.
Every clan has a chieftain that does not mean it is the right guy in the chieftains hat.

originally posted by: 2012newstart
a reply to: Gandalf77

We know the original Third Secret does contain a date. I forgot already where I read it. Was it St John XXIII (1958-1963) who upon reading the secret said it did not concern the time of his pontificate but that of a next pope? Of course we have the Neues Europa version that says before the end of the century, although we know that version of the secret is not identical but close to it.

Malachi Martin said really a lot. Besides other things, he said of the existence of extraterrestrials, and of a space object approaching us that Vatican observes

Fascinating. Thanks for the links; I'll definitely check them out. I don't think I've seen that one with Father Martin about extraterrestrials.

You are correct about St. John XXIII. He didn't think it was "for his time." Neither did St. Paul IV or JP I, I believe. St. JPII looked at the document and said something similar. However, he completely changed his mind after he was shot. In fact, he noticed a young girl wearing a Fatima shirt and leaned out to give her a blessing--right as Mehmet Ali Agca pulled the trigger. The bullet missed his heart due to that action, and then he received a vision of Mary while in surgery and miraculously recovered. That's when he dedicated his papacy to St. Mary.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Gandalf77

They blacken the church but the Church shall overcome, it may be smaller or it may be larger but it will survive and never fall.

Indeed. The very gates of hell won’t prevail against it...

a reply to: LABTECH767

Well nobody wants to be on the outside looking in, social animal that we are.

Especially at night time.

It's cold in the desert, and full of scorpions.

Don't know about chieftains, but in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king if memory serves.

Forget homosexuality, it's just a fact of life. And the church's opinion on it doesn't matter in the slightest in the objective sense.

In my opinion the Catholic church doesn't belong in Christendom. Who is the Pope (a man) to dictate? Believe in God and live your life. Or don't. It's not anyone's business.

originally posted by: Gnawledge
Forget homosexuality, it's just a fact of life. And the church's opinion on it doesn't matter in the slightest in the objective sense.

In my opinion the Catholic church doesn't belong in Christendom. Who is the Pope (a man) to dictate? Believe in God and live your life. Or don't. It's not anyone's business.

I agree with you that it's just a fact of life and what consenting adults do behind closed doors is none of my business, but it does matter to Catholics who are gay and gay people in general who are oppressed and discriminated against by the religious and secular alike. And to Catholics, it does matter what the Pope says; and it doesn't appear to me that he's dictating anything. He merely expressed support for civil unions.

Also, I'd be curious how you think the church that Christ founded (Catholic) doesn't belong in Christendom.

a reply to: Gnawledge

In Roman Catholic theology the Pope is considered infallible.

Acting as supreme ruler and teacher and cannot err when he teaches in matters of faith or morals.

So there is that i suppose, or at least that kind of illogical doctrine to contend with.

originally posted by: Gandalf77

originally posted by: Gnawledge
Forget homosexuality, it's just a fact of life. And the church's opinion on it doesn't matter in the slightest in the objective sense.

In my opinion the Catholic church doesn't belong in Christendom. Who is the Pope (a man) to dictate? Believe in God and live your life. Or don't. It's not anyone's business.

Also, I'd be curious how you think the church that Christ founded (Catholic) doesn't belong in Christendom.

It's my understanding that the church that Christ founded coud be found where any people gather in his name. Putting someone at the head of such a church is not a gathering in His name but a gathering in the Pope's name.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Gnawledge

In Roman Catholic theology the Pope is considered infallible.

Acting as supreme ruler and teacher and cannot err when he teaches in matters of faith or morals.

So there is that i suppose, or at least that kind of illogical doctrine to contend with.

Yes, I don't disagree it's a problem for the homosexual community. My point was simply that the Catholic church shouldn't have any say in such matters.

It's pie-in-the-sky, I know...

a reply to: Gnawledge

It's a problem period sexuality aside.

People are not perfect, and the Pope is a person, hence infallible canny be the colour of the Popes day.

As to pie-in-the-sky, well if they are honest its about Sun worship and not Son worship, Christianity being a bit of a collection of what came before, rinse and repeat and all that jazz.