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15th Texan City Becomes ‘Sanctuary’ For The Unborn, Outlaws Abortion Within City Limits

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posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




Rape? Nope. Its an unfortunate occurance for sure. But it in no way predicates a devaluing of human life. The baby is going to have mental issues? Nope, life is life.


I don't see how forcing a woman to bear her rapist's child, or a deformed or a diseased fetus, doesn't devalue the woman's life, nor how forcing such a "belief" on women can be seen as compassionate, or promote human welfare.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: Sookiechacha

Its not about the woman. Its about the life that would be extinguished.

Life is life. There are other options, such as adoption or something along those lines, that make the murder of a fetus a non starter.

Its not a belief. Either you value life or you do not. There are no grey areas, and once you allow a grey area you begin chipping away at the value of life.

One would hope that its not forcing anything. One would hope that all humans see the value in life. I know it is not the case. However, I still assert that devaluing the life of an unborn child is the actual issue here. And it isn't like our laws aren't a bit disconnected, as I have already mentioned that the only difference between it being called murder or abortion is solely the perception of the mother.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 12:21 PM
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It would be interesting to see here how many so opposed on this site are men. Men who have no idea what it would be like to be raped and forced to carry that child, forced to carry any unwanted pregnancy, or forced to bear a child that may only survive for days or months, so she gets to endure the agony of caring for the child knowing they will die.

I wish the pro-life people had any care for the child after it was born. Since you are forcing someone who may not be capable of competently caring for the child, will you ensure programs are in place to make sure the child has a home, food, medical and mental care if needed? What about the child who is horribly abused and falls through the cracks? Oh its OK because hey they were born that's what matters? Who will raise the child if they have to be removed from the home? Just throw them in the state system?

Not likely there will be much care for them by the same people screaming about this.

Finally, abortion has been around for thousands of years. You will just be removing the safety of it.
edit on 5-10-2020 by frogs453 because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-10-2020 by frogs453 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 12:27 PM
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a reply to: frogs453

This is pure fallacy. The tragedy that befalls one person in no way justifies the murder of another. They are 2 separate issues. And while rape and other such crimes are terrible occurrences to have to live through and deal with, it in no way justifies the killing of an innocent life that had no choice, and lacks any representation in regards to its own needs.

Your second paragraph is 100% straw man fallacy. You have no idea what anyone does regarding adoption or fostering. You just throw up a straw man to beat on hoping that no one notices the complete lack of fact in your argument.

In no way can an unborn child be an inconvenience, or a tragedy of its own. That argument, in itself, devalues human life.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 12:40 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: frogs453

This is pure fallacy. The tragedy that befalls one person in no way justifies the murder of another. They are 2 separate issues. And while rape and other such crimes are terrible occurrences to have to live through and deal with, it in no way justifies the killing of an innocent life that had no choice, and lacks any representation in regards to its own needs.

Your second paragraph is 100% straw man fallacy. You have no idea what anyone does regarding adoption or fostering. You just throw up a straw man to beat on hoping that no one notices the complete lack of fact in your argument.

In no way can an unborn child be an inconvenience, or a tragedy of its own. That argument, in itself, devalues human life.


We will disagree, especially as you are not a woman as I am. Say it's a strawman argument. You can't honestly think that forcing a woman to have a child she didn't want will always be a happy ever after story and that no child will suffer for it.

I personally would not get an abortion, however I support a woman's right to do so safely rather than resort to the way it was done for thousands of years.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Its not about the woman. Its about the life that would be extinguished.



NO

It’s about the woman and her life.

I don’t think men should have a say in this.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Its not about the woman. Its about the life that would be extinguished.



NO

It’s about the woman and her life.

I don’t think men should have a say in this.


There should be no say, regardless of sexism.

Life is life.

A womans life is no more or less important than a childs life. We cannot, either morally or philosophically, create an argument that devalues one for the other. Life is life.

I will add: making it about sex/gender is a credentials fallacy. As a human, i feel I have a say in how human governance works.
edit on 10/5/2020 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: frogs453

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: frogs453

This is pure fallacy. The tragedy that befalls one person in no way justifies the murder of another. They are 2 separate issues. And while rape and other such crimes are terrible occurrences to have to live through and deal with, it in no way justifies the killing of an innocent life that had no choice, and lacks any representation in regards to its own needs.

Your second paragraph is 100% straw man fallacy. You have no idea what anyone does regarding adoption or fostering. You just throw up a straw man to beat on hoping that no one notices the complete lack of fact in your argument.

In no way can an unborn child be an inconvenience, or a tragedy of its own. That argument, in itself, devalues human life.


I personally would not get an abortion, . . .


Those were my words & thoughts at one time.

But, things happen.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: frogs453

Suffering is part of human existence. You cannot pretend that abortion is the cure to suffering. Killing innocents is not a solution to suffering.

ETA: how abortions were done for thousands of years does not change that it was killing innocent life. A woman making a choice to see a backyard butcher doesn't change the fact that it ends an innocent life.

If killing innocents is how we make ourselves suffer less, it does not bode well for humanity.
edit on 10/5/2020 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:06 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: frogs453

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: frogs453

This is pure fallacy. The tragedy that befalls one person in no way justifies the murder of another. They are 2 separate issues. And while rape and other such crimes are terrible occurrences to have to live through and deal with, it in no way justifies the killing of an innocent life that had no choice, and lacks any representation in regards to its own needs.

Your second paragraph is 100% straw man fallacy. You have no idea what anyone does regarding adoption or fostering. You just throw up a straw man to beat on hoping that no one notices the complete lack of fact in your argument.

In no way can an unborn child be an inconvenience, or a tragedy of its own. That argument, in itself, devalues human life.


I personally would not get an abortion, . . .


Those were my words & thoughts at one time.

But, things happen.


I totally understand. I should have said. I hope I never have to be in a situation where I may consider it.

Sending good vibes your way.
edit on 5-10-2020 by frogs453 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Sookiechacha

Its not about the woman. Its about the life that would be extinguished.



NO

It’s about the woman and her life.

I don’t think men should have a say in this.


There should be no say, regardless of sexism.

Life is life.

A womans life is no more or less important than a childs life. We cannot, either morally or philosophically, create an argument that devalues one for the other. Life is life.


NO.

Life is viable when it can live outside the womb.

No man has the right to tell a woman she can’t make the choice for herself and her life.

And I don’t wanna hear “she shouldn’t have gotten pregnant in the first place”.

Let’s refocus — let me know when Paternity testing becomes mandatory.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: frogs453

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: frogs453

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: frogs453

This is pure fallacy. The tragedy that befalls one person in no way justifies the murder of another. They are 2 separate issues. And while rape and other such crimes are terrible occurrences to have to live through and deal with, it in no way justifies the killing of an innocent life that had no choice, and lacks any representation in regards to its own needs.

Your second paragraph is 100% straw man fallacy. You have no idea what anyone does regarding adoption or fostering. You just throw up a straw man to beat on hoping that no one notices the complete lack of fact in your argument.

In no way can an unborn child be an inconvenience, or a tragedy of its own. That argument, in itself, devalues human life.


I personally would not get an abortion, . . .


Those were my words & thoughts at one time.

But, things happen.


I totally understand. I should have said. I hope I never have to be in a situation where I may consider it.

Sending good vibes your way.


Thank you.

BTW — I became pregnant by my husband as we were going through a divorce. Reason for divorce? He didn’t want to share me with HIS children. When a 4 year olds says to you “How come daddy hates me” — you know it’s time to move on.

Divorces are emotional. We had a big cry night together. I ended up throwing up. There went my birth control pill.

So, things happen. Why would I bring another child into that situation. And I would never go
“Potluck” with adoption.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Can you describe the science that determines when a life is a life? I know the answer, if you'd rather not try to discuss this angle.

Credential fallacies are not an argument. The basis of your point is that gender determines whether someone has valid insights. Its the same as:

Parent: im going to let my kid stick a paperclip in the electrical socket
Concerned onlooker: That is dangerous, you shouldn't allow that
Parent: You've never been a parent, what do you know?

While you may feel strongly about what you are saying, its based in logic derived from an informal fallacy.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: Annee

If it helps, i am not passing moral judgement on you. You made a decision with the information you had at the moment you made the decision. I know its a hard decision for most, as it should be.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

Can you describe the science that determines when a life is a life? I know the answer, if you'd rather not try to discuss this angle.

Credential fallacies are not an argument. The basis of your point is that gender determines whether someone has valid insights. Its the same as:

Parent: im going to let my kid stick a paperclip in the electrical socket
Concerned onlooker: That is dangerous, you shouldn't allow that
Parent: You've never been a parent, what do you know?

While you may feel strongly about what you are saying, its based in logic derived from an informal fallacy.



I do believe in science — NOT “God says go forth and replenish the earth”.

Science gives us the knowledge and tools to prevent unwanted children by various means.

I am VERY PRO LIVING CHILDREN.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

Can you describe the science that determines when a life is a life? I know the answer, if you'd rather not try to discuss this angle.

Credential fallacies are not an argument. The basis of your point is that gender determines whether someone has valid insights. Its the same as:

Parent: im going to let my kid stick a paperclip in the electrical socket
Concerned onlooker: That is dangerous, you shouldn't allow that
Parent: You've never been a parent, what do you know?

While you may feel strongly about what you are saying, its based in logic derived from an informal fallacy.



I do believe in science — NOT “God says go forth and replenish the earth”.

Science gives us the knowledge and tools to prevent unwanted children by various means.

I am VERY PRO LIVING CHILDREN.





I agree with you on this. Also who's God are we supposed to make laws to support? There are many different religions and beliefs.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




Its not about the woman. Its about the life that would be extinguished.


That's not very humanitarian.



Life is life.


All life is equal? A sperm is life. Are spermicides murder?



Its not a belief. Either you value life or you do not.


So, you're also a Vegan? Right?



There are no grey areas, and once you allow a grey area you begin chipping away at the value of life.


Such as war and civilian casualties, self defense, capital punishment, old people with preexisting conditions dying from Covid 19, the decision to "pull the plug" on life support patients?



One would hope that its not forcing anything. One would hope that all humans see the value in life. I know it is not the case.


And if they don't, forcing women to give birth is justified anyway?



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:50 PM
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originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan




Its not about the woman. Its about the life that would be extinguished.


That's not very humanitarian.


Your psychological well being cannot take precedence over a human life





All life is equal? A sperm is life. Are spermicides murder?


I did not say all life is equal.




So, you're also a Vegan? Right?


To live, all creatures on the surface of our planet must absorb the power of the sun. Since most cannot use photosynthesis (only 1 nonplant creature can actually do this), we are left with physical consumption. Either plant or animal must die so others can live. Its a fact of life on this planet, and one that I did not establish personally.

My own personal rule is, you must eat what you kill. Obviously i do not extend this to plants, although at some point I may as my own thinking evolves on the matter.

No. I am not a vegan. I am a human that is very reliant on animals for food, as that is how my ancestors evolved. A vegan diet actually causes my autoimmune disease issues to worsen, along with my weight. I've tried it, for my health, and it didn't work at all. And I don't wish to state that animal lives are more important than plant lives. That view is based in ignorance, as we have found that plants have a much more enriched experience than we had previously thought.




Such as war and civilian casualties, self defense, capital punishment, old people with preexisting conditions dying from Covid 19, the decision to "pull the plug" on life support patients?


The only ones that are relevant: war is bad. Self defense is ok. Capital punishment is bad. Pulling the plug is wrong.

All tie back to things I have already stated. If a womans life is in jeopardy, its the only excuse for abortion. Beyond that, its choosing non life over life.





And if they don't, forcing women to give birth is justified anyway?



If it takes "forcing" someone to not kill an innocent, we have a much larger issue here than abortion.
edit on 10/5/2020 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: Annee

I believe in science too. And do not believe there is a God, or if there is i have no evidence of it to base such a belief in.

Science has no answer for you here. You can choose one scientist, i can choose another. All are matters of opinion. We just don't know, and thats the bottom line, when life begins for humans.

And in the presence of ignorance, I see no reason to draw a line in the sand and use that as a litmus test for a decision here. Ill default to the only thing I know for certain: the life that is extinguished with abortion had no say in their death.



posted on Oct, 5 2020 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

I believe in science too. And do not believe there is a God, or if there is i have no evidence of it to base such a belief in.

Science has no answer for you here. You can choose one scientist, i can choose another. All are matters of opinion. We just don't know, and thats the bottom line, when life begins for humans.

And in the presence of ignorance, I see no reason to draw a line in the sand and use that as a litmus test for a decision here. Ill default to the only thing I know for certain: the life that is extinguished with abortion had no say in their death.


On this subject — I flat out don’t care what your belief is, what you think, your opinion, or anything else.

I’m 75. I “was there” when babies were ripped away from young moms (parental control up to age 21). Back alley coat hanger abortions, pregnant women disowned and tossed out in the street. The man was rarely held accountable.

Again — let me know when MANDATORY Paternal DNA testing becomes law.

Oh, wait — that’s infringing on the man’s rights.



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