The identity of Moses and the Pharoah of the Exodus

First, I want to give thanks to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If you haven't given your life to Christ, let him into your heart.

Now, who's Moses in the Bible and the Pharoah of the Exodus? This is a question that has been looked at throughout the years. I will say who it is and lay out the evidence.

The Pharoah's Daughter that adopted Moses is Hatshepsut.

Thutmose III was the Pharoah of the Exodus.

Senenmut is the Biblical Moses.

First let's look at the date of the Exodus:

Pharaoh of the Exodus: Thutmoses III: (1485-1431)

Thutmoses III was Pharaoh in 1446 BC for a total of 54 years. (1485-1431).

There were three distinct phases to his rule.

1. (1485-1464) First was when he was a baby and his stepmother Hatshepsut ruled as co-regent for 21 years.

2. (1464-1446) Second, after Hatshepsut died, he ruled as Pharaoh for 18 years until the exodus.

3. (1446-1431) Third, he ruled another 15 years after the exodus.

www.bible.ca...

Thutmose III came to power when he was less than 2 years old. So his Fathers main wife, he was born to a minor wife, ruled as his Regent for 22 years. She was basically Pharoah. Her name was Queen Hatshepsut. Some believe Hatshepsut was the Pharoah's daughter who found and raised Moses. Is there a Commoner around who gets high rank? Yes, his name is Senenmut. Here's more:

Senenmut was of low commoner birth....Senenmut first enters the historical record on a national level as the "Steward of the God's Wife" (Hatshepsut) and "Steward of the King's Daughter" (Neferure). Some Egyptologists place Senenmut's entry into royal service during the reign of Thutmose I, but it is far more likely that it occurred during either the reign of Thutmose II or while Hatshepsut was still regent and not pharaoh. After Hatshepsut was crowned pharaoh, Senenmut was given more prestigious titles and became high steward of the king....Although it is not known where he is buried, Senenmut had a chapel and a tomb constructed for himself.The chapel is at (TT71) in the Tombs of the Nobles and the tomb is at (TT353), near Hatshepsut's mortuary temple, and contains a famous star ceiling. They were both heavily vandalized during the reign of Thutmose III, perhaps during the latter's campaign to eradicate all trace of Hatshepsut's memory.

en.wikipedia.org...

Thutmose III started out ruling and caring for Hatshepsut, but either during the latter part of his reign or his second son's reign, they tried to erase Hatshepsut and Senenmut from memory. Why?

Hatshepsut raised Thutmose III and through most of his life, they had a good relationship. He would have been like a little Brother to Senenmut(Moses). As he got older, he would also be jealous of all of the praise Hatshepsut heaped on Senenmut.

According to Egyptologist Peter Dorman, “Senenmut may justifiably be described as one of the most eminent and influential persons of the Eighteenth Dynasty.” Living during the reign of Thutmosis III and Hatshepsut, he achieved high rank with titles including Tutor of the King’s Daughter (that is Hatshepsut’s daughter, Neferure), Overseer of all the Works of the King, and High Steward of Amun. His duties in the administration of the religious estate included being Overseer of the Double Granary, the Fields, the Garden, and Cows of Amun. Both monarchs, but especially Hatshepsut, showered him with gifts of statuary and other signs of their esteem.

www.egyptianstudysociety.com...

Thutmose III first born Amenemhat died before his Father so his second son Amenhotep II became Pharoah after him.

Hatshepsut died, there was a falling out between Thutmose III and Senenmut. He left and came back as Moses.

Either Thutmose III or Amenhotep II tried to erase Hatshepsut and Senenmut from memory. What could they have done? Erasing them from memory back then was like erasing them for all eternity. They also started a rumor that Senenmut and Hatshepsut were lovers to cause them more embarassment.

Were they upset because Hatshepsut gave Senenmut(Moses) so much power and he's responsible for the death of their Son/Brother and more?

Here's a statue of Senenmut:



Senemut’s high standing in the court during the reign of Hatshepsut, coupled with him being wiped from the Egyptian historical narrative, and the correlation between the biblical and Egyptian dating, would suggest therefore that he was the person we know from the Bible as Moses.

www.ancient-origins.net...

There's more:

I think some of the descriptions in the Bible are the Ancients trying to describe modern technology and modern warfare in the language of the day. This includes what we call U.F.O.'s.

The Pillar of the Cloud during the Exodus would hover and Moses would enter the Cloud and it would carry him into the mountains.

When the Bible talks about a cloud, it's obvious as to when they're talking about a cloud in the sky or a flying vehicle. Here's some verses talking about a cloud in the sky.

Proverbs 3:20 - By his knowledge the depths are broken up, and the clouds drop down the dew.

Ecclesiastes 11:3 - If the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth: and if the tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be.

These verses are clearly talking about the clouds in the sky. These next verses are talking about some kind of flying vehicle and notice they call it a pillar.

Exodus 24:18 - And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

The cloud carried Moses into the mountains.

[bExodus 13:21 - And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

Exodus 40:34 and 35 - Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 35. And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

When the cloud was hovering over the tabernacle, the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle and Moses couldn't enter. Could this be the power source of the craft which would kill or injure Moses or anyone if they entered while the cloud was hovering?

I can go on and on with examples. In the new Testament the Disciples were even missing time as they "ENTERED" the cloud.

Luke 9

34. While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36. And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

They entered the cloud but soon as the voice finished speaking, it was just them and Jesus.

There's clouds, chariots of fire and more.

Also, Pharoah Thutmose III had an encounter with these flying cigar shaped U.F.O.'s. He called them rods.

In the year 22, in the third month of winter, in the sixth hour of the day, the scribes of the House of Life noticed a circle of fire that was coming from the sky [...] From the mouth it emitted a foul breath. It had no head. Its body was one rod long and one rod wide.¹ It had no voice. And from that the hearts of the scribes became confused and they threw themselves down on their bellies [...] then they reported the thing to the Pharaoh [...] His Majesty ordered [...] has been examined [...] and he was meditating on what had happened, that it was recorded in the scrolls of the House of the Life. Now after some days had passed, these things became more and more numerous in the skies. Their splendor exceeded that of the sun and extended to the limits of the four angles of the sky [...] High and wide in the sky was the position from which these fire circles came and went. The army of the Pharaoh looked on with him in their midst. It was after supper. Then these fire circles ascended higher into the sky and they headed toward the south. Fish and birds then fell from the sky. A marvel never before known since the foundation of their land [...] And Pharaoh caused incense to be brought to make peace with Earth² [...] and what happened was ordered to be written in the Annals of the House of Life so that it be remembered for all time forward.

www.fanwave.it...

This is from the Tulli Papyrus that went "missing" shortly after it was discovered. I think the Vatican or some other powerful entity has it. This papyrus had to be taken and kept hidden because it shows clear evidence of a U.F.O. sighting. Here's an Ancient Egyptian measuring rod.





Here's pics of cigar shaped U.F.O.'s.









The reason this would need to be covered up is because 1, it's clearly a U.F.O. sighting and 2, Thutmose III is believed by some to be the Pharoah in the time of Moses. This could point to the identity of Moses and also point to the involvement of U.F.O.'s involved in the Exodus. You can see why the Vatican might have hidden this.

In these unsteady time Christ can be your rock and Salvation.

a reply to: neoholographic

S&F as soon I read the first lines.

This thread has the good old ATS taste. Rare in these days.

Thanks for sharing.

a reply to: neoholographic

So you worship aliens? Fair enough

a reply to: neoholographic

34. While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36. And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

I love that you added this part.
There are quite a few mufon accounts of people claiming to witness craft in the sky lowering beams of light like some kind of funnel into their cars or houses and instantly being able to hear a strong voice inside their minds as being spoke to by these beings.

You might be onto something here.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: neoholographic

So you worship aliens? Fair enough

Aren't we all aliens?
Why would any of our so called God's be any different?
Arnt they alien to us in nature?
*strokes chin*

originally posted by: Trueman
a reply to: neoholographic

S&F as soon I read the first lines.

This thread has the good old ATS taste. Rare in these days.

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks and I'm glad you enjoyed the thread!

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: neoholographic

So you worship aliens? Fair enough

No, I worship God and his Son Jesus Christ.

I just don't see anything wrong with God using his creation to interact with humans. How else will we comprehend an Omnipresent, Omnipotent and Omniscient God?

I see nothing wrong with God using what we call U.F.O.'s.

Here's some examples.

In Isaiah 19:1 it says:

The burden against Egypt. Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud, And will come into Egypt; The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence, And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst.

Do you think the Lord needs to ride on a swift cloud?

Also, Do you think God needs a Garden?

Do you think God needed a burning bush to talk to Moses?

When God created Eve, he caused Adam to go into a deep sleep, took out what he needed and then closed him up. Why did God carry out surgery on Adam when he could have just made Eve from the dust of the ground? God didn't have to make Eve this way but he did.

During the Exodus, God did this:

Exodus 24:18 - And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

Do you think God needed a cloud to carry Moses into the mountains? Of course not.

2 Kings 2:11

And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Do you think God needed a chariot of fire and horses of fire to bring Elijah to Heaven? Again, of course not.

I can go on and on with examples but God uses his creation to interact with humans. How else can a God interact with 3 dimensional beings who have limited understanding?

God is without dimensions and we can't even comprehend the 4th dimension, so God has to use these things to interact with us.

a reply to: neoholographic

There's plenty of threads that show that UFOs are interdimensional almost evil

The god of this world is the demiurge

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: neoholographic

There's plenty of threads that show that UFOs are interdimensional almost evil

The god of this world is the demiurge

I don't accept Gnosticism and how are U.F.O.'s evil?

A U.F.O. is no different than a chair. It's something that can be used for Good or evil.

If I use the chair to sit in after a long day, that's good. If I use the chair to hit somebody over the head and rob them, that's bad. But it's not the chair that's good or evil, it's the person that's using the chair for good or evil.

I think when Christ returns it will be mistaken as an alien invasion. We will look outside and see clouds(U.F.O.'s) covering the skies. We have been conditioned by movie after movie to think all U.F.O.'s are like Independence Day.

The beast, false prophet and satan will be in control of human weapons and they will attack these clouds.

How do you think the Hosts of Heaven will return to earth? The Bible tells us how:

Revelation 1:7

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Who or what are these clouds?

When Jesus was taken into Heaven in Acts.

Acts 1:9

And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Again, clouds that don't act like rainy clouds in the sky.

Luke 9

34. While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36. And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

They entered the cloud and they were missing time because as soon as they entered the cloud, they found themselves just there with Jesus.

Why does God need to use a cloud to speak out of? He doesn't but we can't comprehend the 4th dimension and this is the only way a dimensionless God can interact with us unless we're out of the body and in the Spirit like Paul and John in Revelation.

Nehemiah 9:12

Moreover thou leddest them in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire, to give them light in the way wherein they should go

Why did God need a cloudy pillar to lead the Israelites? Of course not. God is all powerful and he could have instantly moved the Israelites from Egypt to Canaan but he didn't.

This cloud also hovered over the tent of congregation.

Exodus 40:34 and 35 - Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 35. And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

Do you think God needed to have his abode hovering over a tent in a "cloud?" No, of course not.

Again, my point is, God uses these things to interact with us because we can't comprehend the Majesty of God. Like I said, God is dimensionless and we couldn't see a 4 dimensional object if it was right in front of us. We would see it as separate 3 dimensional objects.

This is why I think some U.F.O. sightings are of higher dimensional objects. So as the higher dimensional object passes through the 3rd dimensions, we see a bunch of separate U.F.O.'s appear seemingly out of nowhere.

If we put a basketball into the space of 2 dimensional beings, they would see a bunch of 2D objects.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: neoholographic

So you worship aliens? Fair enough

God is extraterrestrial by definition.

"1. (1485-1464) First was when he was a baby and his stepmother Hatshepsut ruled as co-regent for 21 years.

2. (1464-1446) Second, after Hatshepsut died, he ruled as Pharaoh for 18 years until the exodus.

3. (1446-1431) Third, he ruled another 15 years after the exodus."

That sounds fine, except that Thutmose III was drowned with his whole army in the sea. He could not have been the Pharaoh of the Exodus.

God DOES NOT travel by spaceship.

Why does a spirit need a spaceship? LOL

Tying God with UFO's is New Age Religion.

Walk away.....

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: neoholographic

So you worship aliens? Fair enough

God is extraterrestrial by definition.

mozes, was an egyptian, who betrayed his brother.
its a scumbag move if you ask me.
you never betray family.

mozes, was a hero to most, but he never did sh!t for me.

a reply to: neoholographic

Plenty of threads on ATS show that UFO's are demonic in nature. Deny ignorance

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Why does a spirit need a spaceship? LOL

See this is where the idea of the trinity is not correct. Remember Jesus was a physical being

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Look up Ezekiels Cherubim, an the Thrones(Opphanim). Which kind of looks like a giant multi headed space dragon.

The lions head is actually it ass.

a reply to: neoholographic

Now, who's Moses in the Bible and the Pharoah of the Exodus? This is a question that has been looked at throughout the years. I will say who it is and lay out the evidence. Senenmut is the Biblical Moses.

www.thetorah.com...

According to Exodus 2, after Moses was three months old, his mother could no longer hide him from Pharaoh’s soldiers, so she placed him in a small ark on the Nile, where he is found by Pharaoh’s unnamed daughter:
שמות ב:הוַתֵּרֶד בַּת פַּרְעֹה לִרְחֹץ עַל הַיְאֹר וְנַעֲרֹתֶיהָ הֹלְכֹת עַל יַד הַיְאֹר וַתֵּרֶא אֶת הַתֵּבָה בְּתוֹךְ הַסּוּף וַתִּשְׁלַח אֶת אֲמָתָהּ וַתִּקָּחֶהָ. ב:ו וַתִּפְתַּח וַתִּרְאֵהוּ אֶת הַיֶּלֶד וְהִנֵּה נַעַר בֹּכֶה וַתַּחְמֹל עָלָיו וַתֹּאמֶר מִיַּלְדֵי הָעִבְרִים זֶה.
Exod 2:5 The daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe in the Nile, while her maidens walked along the Nile. She spied the basket among the reeds and sent her slave girl to fetch it. 2:6 When she opened it, she saw that it was a child, a boy crying. She took pity on it and said, "This must be a Hebrew child."
Moses’ sister who was standing and watching from nearby, offers to find a Hebrew midwife to nurse the child, and she calls the boy’s mother, who then is hired as nursemaid. Then the text continues:
שמות ב:י וַיִגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד וַתְּבִאֵהוּ לְבַת פַּרְעֹה וַיְהִי לָהּ לְבֵן וַתִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ מֹשֶׁה וַתֹּאמֶר כִּי מִן הַמַּיִם מְשִׁיתִהוּ.
Exod 2:10 When the child grew up, she brought him to Pharaoh's daughter, who made him her son. She named him Moshe (Moses), explaining, "I drew him (me#ihu) out of the water."
This verse suggests that Pharaoh’s daughter names Moses—oddly enough, using a Hebrew etymology. This interpretation goes back as far as the Second Temple period. For example, in a second century B.C.E. Greek play, Exagoge, written by a Greek Jewish dramatist from Alexandria, Ezekiel the Tragedian, Moses tells about his birth and how his sister brought his mother to be his nursemaid when Pharaoh’s daughter found him:
Mariam went to fetch our mother who presently appeared and took me in her arms. The princess said to her, “Woman, nurse this child and I shall pay your wages.” She then named me Moses, because she had taken me from the watery river-bank.[1]
God Accepts the Name
The Sages in Leviticus Rabbah (ca. 5th cent. C.E.) were sensitive to the fact that this greatest of all Israelite prophets was named by an Egyptian woman, whom they name Bitya (based on 1 Chronicles 4:18), meaning “Daughter of Yah [God],” and thus, they explain that God specifically approved of her and her choice of name (Levitcus Rabbah 1):
ר' יהושע דסיכנין בש' ר' לוי אמ' לה הקדוש ברוך הוא לבתיה בת פרעה, משה לא היה בנך וקראת אותו בנך, אף את לא את בתי ואני קורא אותך בתי....
Rabbi Yehoshua of Siknin said in the name of Rabbi Levi: God said to Bithiah daughter of Pharaoh, “Moses was not your son, yet you called him your son; you are not my daughter but I will call you my daughter.”
עשרה שמות נקראו לו למשה... אמ' לו הקדוש ברוך הוא למשה חייך מכל שמות שנקראו לך איני קורא לך אלא בשם שקראתה לך בתיה בת פרעה. ותקרא שמו משה (שמות ב, י). ויקרא אל משה.
Moses was called by ten names… The Holy One, praised be he, said to Moses: “By your life, from all the names you have been called I will only call you by the name that Bithiah the daughter of Pharaoh called you.” [The verses states:] “She named him Moses” (Exod 2:10), “He called Moses” (Lev 1:1).[2]
What Did Moses’ Parents Call Him?
The biblical text suggests that Moses spent his first three months at home, where he certainly already had a name. The Biblical Antiquities of Pseudo-Philo, a 2nd cent. C.E. retelling of the biblical narrative from Genesis to Saul, suggests that Moses’ mother had named him earlier, but that the Torah adopts the name given by Pharaoh’s daughter (9:16):
She took him and nursed him. And he became her own son, and she called him by the name Moses. But his mother called him Melchiel (God is my ruler).[3]
Other midrashim suggest a variety of names that Moses had been named by his parents and other family members:
ותקרא שמו משה כי מן המים משיתיהו, ואביו קרא לו חבר כי בעבורו נתחבר עם אשתו,
“And she called his name Moses, for ‘from the water I drew him’” – But his father called him Chaver, since it was on his account that he was reconnected with his wife.
ואמו קראה לו יקותיאל כי הניקה אותו משדיה,
And his mother called him Yekutiel, for she nursed him from her breasts.[4]
According to this, God chose Bitya’s name for Moses above that of his own father and mother!
Yocheved Named Him Moshe: Hizkuni and Abarbanel
Despite the straightforward meaning of what the biblical verse says, several medieval commentators suggest that Yocheved, Moses’s mother, rather than Pharaoh’s daughter, gave Moses his name. The first traditional commentator to suggest this that I can identify is R. Hezekiah ben Manoah (13th cent. France) in his Hizkuni (ad loc.).
ותקרא שמו משה כדברי רבותינו שנתגיירה והיתה לומדת לשון הקודש על שם הנס שנמשה מן המים להזכיר כי מן העברים הוא ולכך אינו נזכר בכל התורה אלא על שם זה.
“She named him: Moses” – This fits with the words of our Sages that she converted (BT Sotah 12b) [when she went down to the Nile and immersed as if in a mikvah] and thus she learned the Hebrew tongue. [The name Moses] commemorated the miracle of his having been saved from the waters of the Nile, clarifying that he is from the Hebrews. For this reason, the Torah only uses this name for him.
ד״‎א בת פרעה לא היתה יודעת לשון הקודש, אלא כך פשוטו של מקרא, ותקרא יוכבד את שמו משה ותאמר לה בת פרעה מהו לשון משה והגידה היא לה שהוא לשון המשכה ואז אמרה בת פרעה יפה קראתו כן כי מן המים משיתהו.
An alternate explanation: The daughter of Pharaoh did not know any Hebrew, but the plain meaning of the text is: She, Yocheved, called him Moses. The daughter of Pharaoh said to her: “What does Moses mean?” She explained to her that it derives from [the Hebrew word for] drawing out something. Then Pharaoh’s daughter said: “you have given him a great name for I drew him out of the water!”
Hizkuni sees two options. Either the Sages are correct that Pharaoh’s daughter was a “righteous convert” of sorts,[5] and this is how she would have known Hebrew, or that Pharaoh’s daughter did not know Hebrew, and that Yocheved named the baby, and Pharaoh’s daughter adopted that name.
A similar interpretation was suggested by Don Isaac Abarbanel (1437-1508), likely independently (Abarbanel does not seem to know Hizkuni):
כל תי"ו הנקבה הנזכר בזה הפסוק היא כנוי לצדקת אם משה לא לבת פרעה כמו שאמר ותקח האשה את הילד ותניקהו ותביאהו לבת פרעה. ועליה נאמר גם כן ותקרא שמו משה ותאמר כי מן המים משיתהו
The feminine verbal forms in this verse all refer back to the righteous mother of Moses and not to Pharaoh’s daughter, as the verse states: “And the woman took the boy, nursed him, and brought him to Pharaoh’s daughter.” It is thus referring to her when it says “and she named him Moses, for she said, ‘He was drawn out of the water.’”
ופירוש הכתוב כך הוא שאמו של משה לקחה הילד ותניקהו ואחרי אשר גמלתו הביאתהו לבת פרעה שלקחה אותו לה לבן וכשהביאתהו לפניה קראה שמו משה רוצה לומר יוכבד הנזכרת קראתהו כן כי היא אמרה לבת פרעה שהיא ובני ביתה היהודים קראו שמו משה ותאמר רוצה לומר אמו של משה אמרה לבת פרעה כי מן המים משיתהו כלומר גברתי הלא קראתי אותו משה ע"ש המאורע שהיה לך עמו כי מן המים משית אותו

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
God DOES NOT travel by spaceship.

Why does a spirit need a spaceship? LOL

Tying God with UFO's is New Age Religion.

Walk away.....

originally posted by: Trueman

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: neoholographic

So you worship aliens? Fair enough

God is extraterrestrial by definition.

I dont know, why would man need a big shiny golden box to talk to God?

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it cannot happen.
God could be in another dimension where THERE he very much is considered to US as a spirit. But in order for God to come here to Speak with us, he needs a device to transport him.
Some say UFOs arnt vehicles like we think like cars or planes.
But vehicles that transcend space time.
Meaning they can come and go in and out of this reality in the blink of an eye.
Which according to eyewitness testimonys they seem to do.
So again, crazy? Yep.
Impossible?
You cant prove or disprove that as of yet.

When Yahawashi HaMashiach returns he will come back and the Chariots (UFOs) will take his people with him up n the clouds. After that a great earthquake will occur and Yahawashi will start judgment on the earth. he will Judge This Israelites first (The real 12 people of the 12 Tribes) and then the rest of the nations( races ) that had a hand in the enslavement and scattering of his people into many nations as slaves over the centuries. a reply to: neoholographic