Question for leftists: How do you feel about being lied to about Trump's taxes?

originally posted by: EnigmaChaser

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: face23785

So, he's been a business success by failing spectacularly for 10 years?

Where did his money come from, his net worth of "tens of billions", if he didn't make any money?

Total net worth is different than liquid net worth.

Many billionaires don’t have billions sitting around in cash. A) because if you have cash idling it’s not working for you and B) it’s likely locked up in a business or hard asset (RE, PPE, etc.).

Said another way, many very wealthy people have their assets locked up in a business that’s worth some multiple of TTM revenue (typically) if the business is privately held. Different businesses have different multiples for what they’re worth - and those numbers ebb and flow. But that’s how they arrive at “billionaire” status.

Also, being illiquid is common for RE guys. They might have a net worth of 50-100 million but only have a few million liquid (stocks/bonds/cash). Still wealthy, but not like folks might think - it also means that come tax time they might not be paying a lot in tax. The goal is to look at broke as possible on paper and run everything through the business or LLC.

Also, to the point of taxes, this is another reason the wealthy like art/jewelry/etc. - easier to transfer that wealth undetected to the next generation. I.e. they buy a 50k painting and then give it to their kid to hang on their wall. The kid doesn’t have 50k in cold hard cash, but they do have a 50k asset that isn’t “titled” - and their net worth is still increased by 50k.

I could go on but suffice to say, this kind of thing can get complicated.

While I understand and agree that capital growth can be tied up in investment, and also that in real-estate the term of 25 years is not excessive at all, still the question arises as to the net worth of a business venture that never seems to turn a profit on one hand, and yet makes claims of both liquidity and viability for recieving investment on the other?

Are they there to fish, or cut bait?

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: eManym
Does his Maralago club making over 100 million from his over 30 golf trips count?

Does the Maralogo club pay millions of dollars in taxes each year that has nothing to do with Trump's PERSONAL earnings count?

Why yes, it does.

Pro Tip... if you don't understand the difference between a company owner's taxes and the company's taxes, just stop posting.

It will save you from looking.... silly.

The alleged tax details were of the Trump Organization, not of his personal tax details.

In your example of the Maralago club, they probably didn't pay taxes, or if they did, those taxes were written off against other losses of the group. So they shuffled the numbers on paper and didn't pay taxes.

Well thank you as an American citizen with dozens for properties and thousands of employees and a deep and personal knowledge of Trump's business dealings clear that up for us.

I know that 'not being a citizen of the USA' makes me far more ignorant than the OP, because I am not privy to exactly the same media as an American.

I've also never, even once, been in a 'civics' class. At least not one that only indoctrinated a single ideology. How could I believe the 'officially sanctioned truth' with all that choice and other data on hand? LOL.



I was just pointing out that the situation you were using to argue Trump's case, was the inverse of that outlined in the article that prompted the OP's response.

a reply to: face23785

Well, I did not know I had a fan club. You simply could have emailed me I would have come here to give you a response. I believe in other threads i already made it clear this was nothing. Corporate taxes are complicated and seeing Trumps personal taxes means nothing.And i have severe doubts abiout this seeing that the NY Times refuses to release them for us to look at.

But putting that aside bottom line this means nothing we would need to see what the 500 or so corporations he owns paid in taxes.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: face23785

So, he's been a business success by failing spectacularly for 10 years?

Where did his money come from, his net worth of "tens of billions", if he didn't make any money?

The equity he holds in his companies and real estate holdings is what makes him a billionaire. When you hear of someone being worth a billion or even a millionaire in most cases, it doesn't mean they have that much money sitting in a checking account. It just means they may have stocks, bonds, houses, or other items that when their value is totalled means that the person is worth X amount of money after subtracting any liabilities.

Net worth = Assets (equity, real estate, art, investments) - Liabilities (debts, mortgages, etc).

originally posted by: face23785

ETA: Oh, full disclosure, the Times is refusing to release the source documents behind their claims. They're pretending that would endanger their sources. Trump is also disputing the story, saying a lot of it is false. So stay tuned. The media either lied about the aforementioned conspiracy theories, or they lied about what's in this story. In all probability, they lied about both.

Hmmm, if he hadn't spent so much money on lawyers to try and stop this getting out your last statement might hold more weight.

a reply to: chr0naut

Oh, and I am not a 'leftist'

originally posted by: jamespond

originally posted by: face23785

ETA: Oh, full disclosure, the Times is refusing to release the source documents behind their claims. They're pretending that would endanger their sources. Trump is also disputing the story, saying a lot of it is false. So stay tuned. The media either lied about the aforementioned conspiracy theories, or they lied about what's in this story. In all probability, they lied about both.

Hmmm, if he hadn't spent so much money on lawyers to try and stop this getting out your last statement might hold more weight.

How do you know how much he spent on lawyers?

Major law firms take a retainer as their clients are in constant need of legal service due to the nature of corporate interests.

What I do not understand:

* Are these documents true or fake?

* Trump said, its "fake news". Did he lie?

* How many times would you estimated did he lie to you all?

* How many of those lies were of important matters, nationwide or international?

I could go on, but I guess you can see where I am leading you to - Trump denies everything, routinely, even with hard evidence in front of him.

Why would you believe him another word?

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: face23785

So, he's been a business success by failing spectacularly for 10 years?

Where did his money come from, his net worth of "tens of billions", if he didn't make any money?

The equity he holds in his companies and real estate holdings is what makes him a billionaire. When you hear of someone being worth a billion or even a millionaire in most cases, it doesn't mean they have that much money sitting in a checking account. It just means they may have stocks, bonds, houses, or other items that when their value is totalled means that the person is worth X amount of money after subtracting any liabilities.

Net worth = Assets (equity, real estate, art, investments) - Liabilities (debts, mortgages, etc).

And no-one else can do the same sums?

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: face23785

If there was something illegal in the tax returns, there would certainly be an ATS thread on the subject by now.

I've observed the trend around hot Trump topics here. Anything negative takes up to 12 hours to be posted. Anything positive within minutes, it's easy to check just find a Trump topic with 2-3 threads.

The time stamps will be rather close together.

a reply to: EnigmaChaser

Reinvestment and losses are different.

You mention nothing of bankruptcy or mezzanine loans.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Who cares?

The US has the world's strongest economy, it's yuuuge.

Just don't mention the debt or shuffling of books. Anyways it's totally acceptable in the business world to artificially inflate or deflate equity. Paying less taxes is a good thing!

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: ManFromEurope

Who cares?

The US has the world's strongest economy, it's yuuuge.

Just don't mention the debt or shuffling of books. Anyways it's totally acceptable in the business world to artificially inflate or deflate equity. Paying less taxes is a good thing!

Yes, I just like to tickle the unwilling who do not want to see the naked emperor.

And don't topple this precarious stack of debts and loans.

a reply to: face23785

That's all anything is anymore, a huge Lie.

Except what I just said.

originally posted by: RAY1990

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: face23785

If there was something illegal in the tax returns, there would certainly be an ATS thread on the subject by now.

I've observed the trend around hot Trump topics here. Anything negative takes up to 12 hours to be posted. Anything positive within minutes, it's easy to check just find a Trump topic with 2-3 threads.

The time stamps will be rather close together.

If that's true which I doubt, but if it were:

It's probably cuz the TV hates on him all day utilizing reverse psychology to make him a likable underdog.

This buys TPTB more time to fulfill their agenda while we all bicker amongst ourselves over some guys toupee.

a reply to: face23785

How do you feel about being lied to about Trump's taxes?

That question should really go to his supporters but instead can I ask a counter question to the Trump supporters on ATS?

If any of this is true and there is the possibility that it all 'could' be true. Does it worry you that Trump, the man that holds Americas economy in his hands, who claims he's a business genius, has possibly fraudulently dodged paying federal income tax for 10+ years (considering how Apple, Google and others do the same and lots of you guys get angry about that) and owes millions in loans that will be due very very soon. Again if it's true, how does it feel that Trump has conned his way out of paying his share of tax in America but has paid tax in other countries?

For instance in 2017, he or his companies paid $15,598 in Panama, $145,400 in India and the $156,824 in the Philippines. In that same year he paid just $750 in US federal income taxes.

The Guardian.

a reply to: Kurokage

Where exactly is the potential fraud?

The NYT story is classic leftism.
They have taken something we already knew and had been reported ad finitum (including by the NYT!) and 'repackaged' it into yet another headline smear, hoping enough people will be too stupid to remember the other hit pieces.

In 2016 it was already reported that Trump had used depreciation on his real estate holdings and other losses to offset future years taxes - to the tune of $1bn. All legal.

From almost the exact same week 4 years ago...
www.bbc.co.uk...

The New York Times said it had received some of Mr Trump's 1995 tax documents revealing $915m losses that allowed him to legally avoid paying taxes.

The real estate tycoon's camp refused to confirm or deny the report, but said the filing was "illegally obtained".

The campaign of his rival, Hillary Clinton, called it a "bombshell".

The rehashing of this story tells me that the years-long claim that his taxes were hiding illegality or dealings with Russia are completely bogus. What we have now is a perfect example of why Trump can NOT release his tax returns - because the media will use soundbites, innuendo and falsehoods to paint a picture, in this case that Trump has not been successful, relying on the common man not understanding the nature of what the media are calling 'losses'. They don;t care about the tax returns, only the spin that they can create from them.

No doubt yet more stories will be rehashed because they have spent 4 years trying to get Trump by any means necessary and have come up empty thus far

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes

originally posted by: jamespond

originally posted by: face23785

ETA: Oh, full disclosure, the Times is refusing to release the source documents behind their claims. They're pretending that would endanger their sources. Trump is also disputing the story, saying a lot of it is false. So stay tuned. The media either lied about the aforementioned conspiracy theories, or they lied about what's in this story. In all probability, they lied about both.

Hmmm, if he hadn't spent so much money on lawyers to try and stop this getting out your last statement might hold more weight.

How do you know how much he spent on lawyers?

Major law firms take a retainer as their clients are in constant need of legal service due to the nature of corporate interests.

Does it matter exactly how much he spent or whether he has a retainer with a law firm?

He's hiding something or else he wouldn't need lawyers involved at all. I've been saying exactly that on here for months. If you have nothing to hide why go to court to stop something being revealed? It just doesn't make sense.

I realise this is hard for Trump's die hard fan base to swallow but there comes a time when you just have to accept that he's not the saviour that FOX news wants you to believe he is. He's perhaps even more crooked than the established politicians who Trump supporters constantly deride.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
What I do not understand:

* Are these documents true or fake?

* Trump said, its "fake news". Did he lie?

* How many times would you estimated did he lie to you all?

* How many of those lies were of important matters, nationwide or international?

I could go on, but I guess you can see where I am leading you to - Trump denies everything, routinely, even with hard evidence in front of him.

Why would you believe him another word?

What kind of hard evidence? I've yet to see any hard evidence of anything negative said about him. I'm assuming you've seen it and can show us the source.

I guess if people threw lies at you all the time you'd admit they were right?