Sumerians show why a natural interpretation of evolution is false

I have shown in other threads why a natural interpretation of evolution is a fantasy. This is just one more reason why.

There's no evidence that modern civilization evolved. Homo Sapians that are very close to us have been around for 200,000 years. Some say it may go back to 400,000 years.

Modern civilization just happened. It just popped up out of nowhere.

We went from hunter gatherers to doing astrology, advanced mathematics, literature, political laws and more. Where's the evidence that shows than any of this evolved over time?

They went from living in caves and huts to building pyramid structures and great buildings. Here's more about the Sumerians.

Sumerian astrology tablets make up the first historical record of astrology. The Sumerians gave the world astrology. They are literally the oldest astrological documents. They named many of the constellations and defined the nature of numerous bodies in the solar system. The Sumerians taught the Babylonians astrology. Ptolemy and others then learned from the Babylonians. And we learned from them.

The Sumerians were not only advanced in astrology, but in all other aspects of culture as well. They produced great literature, their laws were as benign as British common law (C. Leonard Wolley, The Sumerians, New York: W.W. Norton, 1965, Pages 90-122), and their mathematics were only improved upon by the brilliant Greeks.

www.historicalastrology.com...

Are you saying for 195,000 years homo sapiens didn't write and then poof, we wrote down everything and built a modern civilization?

It makes no sense. It defies logic and reason.

There had to have been an advanced civilization that taught them these things. It sounds like someone ate off of the tree of knowledge.

We went from drawing animals on cave walls:





To astrology, literature and mathematics:









Again, it makes no sense. We went from this:



To this:



We went from living in caves and building huts to this:







It's obvious that there was an explosion of knowledge that happened almost instantly.

This is yet another blow to the fantasy that is a natural interpretation of evolution.

I think what it is is success.

Humans managed to get down to very very low numbers of people about a 100,000 years ago.

Once you start to get a certain amount of people in close enough proximity to each other, and every person doesn't need to go out and catch or grow the food, get the water, they can spend a lot more time doing other things, like building better tools, making other things, exploring. Get hired by someone else, earn currency that can be used for different things, start learning about other things.

Plus there are people who just come into things or born with certain gifts...

a reply to: neoholographic

We went from hunter gatherers to doing astrology, advanced mathematics, literature, political laws and more. Where's the evidence that shows than any of this evolved over time?

Hunter gatherers
to agriculture in about 10,000 b.c.
to astrology in about 3,000 b.c.
That's 7,000 years of beer drinking before we got to better stuff like astrology.
See: Neolithic Revolution

There is no evolution mentioned in this thread.

Just an idea about social development. Which has absolutely nothing to do with evolution. Don't bring biology into a sociological idea.
Bad people tried that and it did not work out very well.

specialization.
As DaRage points out, more people having free time can start advanced thinking. This only comes with increasing numbers.

And they didn't start with a full alphabet..it would be simple pictures and symbols which would be shared tribally. The first forms of written alphabet isn't the first time things were written down, it would be just the first time a major civilization incorporated and spread it.

originally posted by: neoholographic

Looks like they are smoking hookah and drinking ale or other recreational beverage of the time. Maybe this was a sign for a bar ??

There is much to be found.

Look at gobekli tepe, 12000 years old. We weren't "supposed" to be building sites like that then.

Just because we/you lack understanding, does not theory make.

a reply to: neoholographic

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
There is no evolution mentioned in this thread.

Just an idea about social development. Which has absolutely nothing to do with evolution. Don't bring biology into a sociological idea.
Bad people tried that and it did not work out very well.

That's because we evolved to a point where social development was possible.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: neoholographic

We went from hunter gatherers to doing astrology, advanced mathematics, literature, political laws and more. Where's the evidence that shows than any of this evolved over time?

Hunter gatherers
to agriculture in about 10,000 b.c.
to astrology in about 3,000 b.c.
That's 7,000 years of beer drinking before we got to better stuff like astrology.
See: Neolithic Revolution

Yep it took them 7000 years to do that, but let's look at something that's more current as to what humans can do.

We went from horses to cars, airplanes to going to the moon, and those occurred in only one life time of a person. In the thousands of years what do you think people could come up with and lose to history?
Mathematics? Became a type of cultish religion around 430BCE, but by 600AD was lost to most people
Reading and Writing? Those almost went dead after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. If it wasn't for monks trying to teach Latin so that Scripture could be read, we wouldn't have anything from the Greeks or Roman eras.
Science? The classical Greeks and others were only persevered due to the interest of Islamic Cultures and the Monasteries using the documents to teach others how to write and read.

It's amazing what we can create and lose to history in less then a few hundred years, but you are talking about a timeframe that's hundreds of thousands of years old. Do you think that we have everything from the people back then?

Did you know the the Egyptian civilization lived for thousands of years before they even had a single Pharaoh? During the time frame that you are bring up here we've had a number of complete cultural collapse, empires vanish from the face of history, and life change beyond anything you can image during the end of the last glacial period.

Here's another thing to think about; Did you know the Hebrew religion is one of the oldest known religions in the world? The funny thing is that Buddhism might even be older then that. I would strongly suggest that if you really want to think this that you go and dig into history and find out more about the people of the world before making assumptions about it.

Agriculture and farming provided source of energy, fast energy carbs. Eating wasn´t constant hunting or gathering and cos of that people had time to do other things, explore and invent. Domesticating animals even made source of food easier to get.

a reply to: DaRAGE

I first have to ask, are you serious or just trolling?

You said humans managed to get down to low numbers 100,000 years ago, 95,000 years passed then poof astrology, mathematics, buildings, literature, political laws and more just appeared?

Again, are you serious?

Let me explain what I think happened.

God created Adam and there was genetic engineering involved to prepare the human body for our souls and the Spirit of God. This is why God carried out a surgery on Adam to create Eve.

Genesis 3:21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

This is simply amazing!

God didn't have to make Eve this way. He could have made Eve from the dust of the ground as He did Adam.

God did it this way for our benefit. He knew we would recognize the procedure. You can see this in any Hospital today. If you watch any medical show, what do they say at the end of surgery? Okay, let's close him/her up.

Why did God have to cause Adam to go into a deep sleep? Why did he close up Adam's flesh like any Doctor would today that's carrying out a surgery?

I believe the fall occurred and these hominids with changed DNA began to explore the planet. Different Hominid groups remained isolated for years. Then a group we call the Cro-Magnon began to explore the planet.

As for Cro-Magnons, they're pretty much just like us. They take their name from a cave in France where Louis Lartet found them in 1868. (Well, he found their skeletons. They had died a while before.) Unlike Neanderthals, Cro-Magnons are not a separate species from Homo sapiens. In fact, they're the earliest known European example of our species—living between 35,000 and 10,000 years ago—and are actually modern in every anatomical respect. They did, however, have somewhat broader faces, a bit more muscle, and a slightly larger brain. So how'd they utilize their larger noggins? Cro-Magnon man used tools, spoke and probably sang, made weapons, lived in huts, wove cloth, wore skins, made jewelry, used burial rituals, made cave paintings, and even came up with a calendar. Specimens have since been found outside Europe, including in the Middle East.

www.mentalfloss.com...

Eventually, these early homo sapiens evolved in short order to be us. This is when the cave pintings started to change and become more intricate. Here's some Petroglyphs from Val Camonica.







Some of these cave paintings are from 10,000 - 15,000 years ago.

This could be when some of the fallen ones began to teach homo sapiens about astrology, mathematics, writing and more. After the paintings began to change with these strange figures, then modern civilation followed.

I think all you have to do is use a little basic common sense and set aside your belief.

Also, it's important to give your life to Christ.

a reply to: neoholographic
Nothing you've said changes the theory of evolution in any way.

a reply to: Guyfriday

Do you think that we have everything from the people back then?

Not at all. But we do have enough to know that:

the Hebrew religion is one of the oldest known religions in the world

Is a false statement.
Hebrew derives from older language. Written Hebrew derives from older written language. The myths derive from older Sumerian/Akkadian/Persian myths which were written 2,000 years earlier.

I would strongly suggest that if you really want to think this that you go and dig into history and find out more about the people of the world before making assumptions about it.

Well alrighty then.

The only point that I was making is that the cavemen didn't emerge from their caves and immediately build the type of city common in about 1000 BC. There was much slow progression from 10,000 BC to 1,000 B.C.

a reply to: neoholographic

oldest astrological documents

'That we have found or they might just be the oldest that have survived.

We don't know everything about the past . Not even close.

a reply to: neoholographic
How does this effect evolutionary theory at all?

Aliens could have taught us how to make pyramids and it still wouldn't effect evolution.

originally posted by: pthena

Well alrighty then.

The only point that I was making is that the cavemen didn't emerge from their caves and immediately build the type of city common in about 1000 BC. There was much slow progression from 10,000 BC to 1,000 B.C.

Oop's that part wasn't for you it was towards the Op of the thread. No, no I agree with what you stated.

I was piggy-backing on your statement about the timeframe being viewed.

Sorry about that, I should have been clearer.

***EDITED PART BELOW***

Also to add to what you stated:
Oh I wanted to add that the cave lived people is also a bit of a confusion. The people of Attica had to retreat to living in caves after some kind of event took place, and it wasn't until later (I believe it was within the same generation, but it may have taken a second generation) that they went back to living in towns and communities. So unverified cave settlements doesn't have to mean "Cave Man".

a reply to: neoholographic

God created Adam and there was genetic engineering involved to prepare the human body for our souls and the Spirit of God. This is why God carried out a surgery on Adam to create Eve.

That's all in The Epic of Atraḥasis

[a5] Every day ...
the outcry was loud, we could hear the clamor.
There is ...
Belet-ili, the midwife, is present.note[Belet-ili ('mistress of the gods'), Nin-tu ('birth-giver'), and Mami different names for the same goddess.]
Let her create, then, a human, a man,

[a10] Let him bear the yoke!
Let him bear the yoke!
Let man assume the drudgery of the god."
Belet-ili, the midwife, is present.
...
[200] "It is not for me to do it,
the task is Enki's.
He it is that cleanses all,
let him provide me the clay so I can do the making."
Enki made ready to speak,

[205] and said to the great gods:
"On the first, seventh, and fifteenth days of the month,
let me establish a purification, a bath.
Let one god be slaughtered,
then let the gods be cleansed by immersion.

[210] Let Nintu mix clay with his flesh and blood.
Let that same god and man be thoroughly mixed in the clay.
Let us hear the drum for the rest of the time.

[215] From the flesh of the god let a spirit remain,
let it make the living know its sign,
lest he be allowed to be forgotten, let the spirit remain."
The great Anunna-gods, who administer destinies,

[220] answered "yes!" in the assembly.

a reply to: Guyfriday

I was piggy-backing on your statement about the timeframe being viewed.

Well that's okay. At least it gets repeated to reinforce the message.

So unverified cave settlements doesn't have to mean "Cave Man".

I read something about cave dwellers along the Mediterranean coast living mostly on shellfish. But I can't remember what time period that was.

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: DaRAGE

Let me explain what I think happened.

God created Adam and there was genetic engineering involved to prepare the human body for our souls and the Spirit of God. This is why God carried out a surgery on Adam to create Eve.

God didn't have to make Eve this way. He could have made Eve from the dust of the ground as He did Adam.

Also, it's important to give your life to Christ.

Here we get to the real meat of your argument. Religious dogma.

You keep saying poof like things happened over the course of a night. It didn't. The reason it seems illogical to you is that you're fabricating illogical things that don't reflect reality.

All i see here is Indoctrination blinding someone from thinking logically 😕