Breaking BAASS, Assessing AATIP and Doubting Thomas ‘DeLonge’

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
I'm not sure why you wrote TTSA/The patents, with a slash between them, since they are two different things.

I don't see how TTSA would be involved in the hypothesized scenario.

I'll read the rest and come back to you- but on the above..

You cant sensibly separate into 2 events when:
A: The Pais "effect"- a central tenet of the patents- relies on a citation which can best be described as an obscure theory. This obscure theory just happens to come from a TTSA member who really has no credible form in terms of producing revolutionary GR interpretations.
B: The Pais effect was forcefully publicised, apparently against normal procedure , during the TTSA operation to stop "nefarious parties" (Pais own words).

If we consider possible scientists, possible citations, possible organisations, possible timescales, and possible exotic propulsion theme as variables... this seems like a highly unlikely co-incidence.

The fact the author of this obscure citation was (at the time of the Patents) working in what can only be described as a limited hangout, with a former LM Skunkworks head honco who wanted to specifically build a revolutionary "Metamaterial Spaceship", makes me think this is the horse to back...

X-FILES Pentagon releases 1,500 pages of secret documents about shadowy UFO programme after four year battle
www.thesun.co.uk... s-government-releases-1500-pages-secret-documents-ufo-programme/

a reply to: gippo888

As I posted to another thread this appears to be the 38 DIRDS provided to the DIA as part of the AAWSAP contract by Bigelow Aerospace. Black Vault has already released them at this page archived here : The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) Documentation

Something the DIA later commented on :

“After a while the consensus was we really couldn’t find anything of substance.They produced reams of paperwork. After all of that there was really nothing there that we could find. It all pretty much dissolved from that reason alone—and the interest level was losing steam. We only did it a couple years....”

Politico

It would seem the paperwork, as we've discussed before, came from previous academic papers that were reused to fulfil a contract while Bigelow and his boys went and played UFO Hunters with MUFON.

a reply to: mirageman

It would seem the paperwork, as we've discussed before, came from previous academic papers that were reused to fulfil a contract while Bigelow and his boys went and played UFO Hunters with MUFON.

I think so too.

BTW, folks, the bad news is they're still messing around here since the Skinwalker ranch show is coming back.
Where it all began for this operation according to them.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Without the power of belief, SWR would stop 'working'.

They've got to keep self-promoting, or it all ends.

Look, we now have all the points where this whole affair started: According to the Pentagon Skinwalker book, AASWAP started through some official getting all spooked up at Skinwalker, which led to AAWSAP, which led to the ATTIP disinformation scheme, as a more or less add-on scheme from an IC defense agency: air force and or CIA, or DIA cooked up to bamboozle the public with the 2017 publication about ATTIP which was leeched off of by TTSA.

AAWSAP was first, then they created the addendum name ATTIP in order to distract congress from AASWAP’s work.
Then comes along Delonge and he offers himself as a useful tool to use in order to assist in propagandizing the defense department's greatness and garnering respect for its great work. From a ufo-related technological perspective: One side of the IC propaganda arm meets another side and they hook up for the mutual benefit of minimally aggrandizing the defense establishment in the public mind.

AAWSAP had the accretion from their group ATTIP just lying there to be used as a prop useful for the creation of TTSA.

Recall DeLonge’s mysterious meetings with IC spooks in out-of-the-way meetings, which were indeed him being passed around to the IC groups just waiting for this opportunity to minimally propagandize the country about how useful and beneficial they are. Though other IC reasons for TTSA, I don’t claim to have figured it out at this point.

All I'll say is that TTSA may reach into a greater scheme that transcends TTSA 's meaning and ufology. We don’t have a handle on that yet.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: peaceinoutz

Without the power of belief, SWR would stop 'working'.

They've got to keep self-promoting, or it all ends.

It may be all about the power or energy of belief behind all this stuff. Belief may have to exist at a certain level. Doesn’t matter what is believed just the energy of belief is utilized by something

Even disbelief is a form of belief!

Organized religious belief goes down and now we have ufo belief filling that vacuum and other small cults.

The belief jinn has to get fed. It's probably an energy thing.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

I would postulate that it all started more than 30 years ago. Probably longer. When the Vegas UFO Mob planned to either connect with an internal 'UFO project' within the DoD, find that there wasn't one and collate their own historical material on the 'phenomenon' or accept the null hypothesis.



Before the decade was out they were playing ghost hunters down on Skinwalker Ranch courtesy of Bigelow. Then Bigelow started funding lots of research with individuals and groups like FUFOR, CUFOS and MUFON and squirelling it all away. He pretended he'd always been interested in space businesses yet never told anyone. But this was really a plot to get 'on the inside'. Then one day, years after Skinwalker Ranch had been virtually shutdown they got lucky, got awarded an official $22m AAWSAP contract.

But instead of doing what it said on the paperwork (a study in future weapons technology) they made it into a UFO study. Bigelow co-opted MUFON, raided their databases and authorized visits to Brazil. After a year people in the Pentagon began to realize what was going on and funding ceased. The rest is history.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: peaceinoutz

Without the power of belief, SWR would stop 'working'.

They've got to keep self-promoting, or it all ends.

It may be all about the power or energy of belief behind all this stuff. Belief may have to exist at a certain level. Doesn’t matter what is believed just the energy of belief is utilized by something

Even disbelief is a form of belief!

Organized religious belief goes down and now we have ufo belief filling that vacuum and other small cults.

The belief jinn has to get fed. It's probably an energy thing.

Something like that, yes.

And the more simple case, that you have to keep the 'rubes' buzzing,
whether that causes anything or not.

That dual trickster/reality shamanic effect.

a reply to: mirageman

That back of napkin meeting at Dennies was indeed
the beginning for our three musketeers, that led to
all this, in it's present form.

They NEVER DID find that 'secret Roswell crap', as
it had never happened. So, partially consciously,
partially unconsciously (in the jaws of the trickster
as it were),

they did the 'shamanic thing' of 'faking it until
they could make it'.

Unfortunatley the faking was done so poorly
that even fanboys saw through it eventually.

It didn't happen right away, but part-way
the whole 'test of the control loop' thing
happeened, where seed ideas were planted
(a mix of consciously and unconsciously) and
then 'new truths' were suddenly purported
to be real,

where inflatable rubber duckies with some
electronics attached, were suddenly
'proof of UFOs'.

The sad thing, is that there really IS a
'phenomenon', but they never understood
what they were accidentally messing with.

PS: I guess..

I'm not saying that JV or his buddies did
anything illegal or immoral that i know of...
people are so anxious to have proof of UFOs
that they automatically delude themselves.

Now... I must say that the sloppiness on the
part of TTSA looks embarassingly like purposeful
fraud.. but it could have been simple
incompetence.

When the goal is to promote a view, not research
whether that goal is valid.. that's the crux of
the matter.. then it's some mix of 'religion' or
a desire to get your anomalous hobby funded.

a reply to: mirageman

But instead of doing what it said on the paperwork (a study in future weapons technology) they made it into a UFO study. Bigelow co-opted MUFON, raided their databases and authorized visits to Brazil. After a year people in the Pentagon began to realize what was going on and funding ceased. The rest is history.

Are you saying AAWSAP was made into a ufo study?

Interestingly, those Dirds aren’t about UFOs I don’t think, I could be wrong. I kind of agree with you but the ufo study to me was propaganda they used to promote the ATTIP myth.

I do agree with your above ideas about going back 30 years.

What I don't totally see is why they created ATTIP. Clearly one can see that what's behind ATTIP is a house of cards, propped up opportunistically by the AAWSAP operation.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That dual trickster/reality shamanic effect

Alas, though, don’t you see, the Jinn is the trickster, or more precisely: the trickster is a jinn!

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That dual trickster/reality shamanic effect

Alas, though, don’t you see, the Jinn is the trickster, or more precisely: the trickster is a jinn!

you may recall that I wrote an entire ATS post on djinn!

in my early days.

There are theologic, theosophic and other academic 'counting angels on pins' sort of
conversation to be had about whehter beings are involved, what type of beings,
or if it's 'just' a collective unconscious type thing, entirely human made.

I get into these these type of discussions almost daily recently.

There's a hundred different interpretations on this point, probalby
all wrong.

It's this very thing that I have spent an entrie lifetime studying;
and i'm currently documenting it to be clucked over by academics.

There are huge mountains of evidence and thought about these matters
in the halls of academia, that dwarf anything every written about or
discussed on ATS.

I've only recently gotten invited into these discussions, as my former
source of collaboration dried up as you know.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Are you saying AAWSAP was made into a UFO study?

It's not just me saying it. We know Bigelow paid over $300k to MUFON for access to their reports and employ their field reps as investigators for UFO events. Those reports are in the public domain.

We know BAASS asked for FAA UFO reports to be sent to them.

We know BAASS sent representatives to South America to visit various UFO groups.

Someone also presented Tim McMillan with ;

The 494-page “Ten Month Report,” as it’s called, is chock full of strategic plans, project summaries, data tables, charts, descriptions of biological field effects, physical characteristics, methods of detection, theoretical capabilities, witness interviews, photographs, and case synopses—each one entirely, explicitly about unexplained aerial phenomena.

The head of the AAWSAP Project (not BF Lue) James T Kirk Lacatski even said in the Skinwalker Book.

"The intent of the language crafted was totally directed towards a study on UAPs. There was no ambiguity here."

I would argue that the tender for contract certainly doesn't suggest that AAWSAP was intended to study UAPs and Lacatski appears to be taking the readers for idiots.

Or maybe Bigelow, Lacatski and all the other chumps at BAASS are idiots for thinking that the contract was actually telling them to study UFOs/UAP. Because it doesn't! Of all the DIRDS released, only one mentions UFOs. So far no one, but Tim McMillan has seen the 10 month report outside the circle of people with a need to see it.

It looks to me like Bigelow and his Vegas UFO Mob tried to hide behind the delivery of an initial document dump (the 38 DIRDS) to squeeze another year's funding while they were playing UFO hunters. The move to get SAP status, and the use of the AATIP moniker, were attempts to keep the UFO studies from prying eyes. Because they had no authority to do so. Perhaps they all thought this was the massive breakthrough that would lead them to finding the Roswell Spaceship locked away in a hangar somewhere?

Instead, they got Tom DeLonge, BF Lue and Chris Mellon leading an offensive on an American public who, despite all the claims of their fanboys, just don't care. No one will until hard proof is presented, anyway.

a reply to: mirageman

I totally agree with your analysis.
Only we still don’t know the motive behind AATIP. Might be mundane and not that important, just a continuation of the ongoing Robertson Panel edict from 1953.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Of course, there’s a definition of djinn for the public and the definition of it by another source.

So, until one gets all the data one might be limited in their understanding.

Also, it's not as bad as angels counted on the head of a pin since it deals with the fundamental nature of being vastly overlooked ( or hidden by ) the experts and commentators.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
a reply to: mirageman

I totally agree with your analysis.
Only we still don’t know the motive behind AATIP. Might be mundane and not that important, just a continuation of the ongoing Robertson Panel edict from 1953.

According to the Skinworker's at the Pentagon book AATIP was a continuation of AAWSAP that studied military encounters of UAP....



However it also claims the 'small staff' assigned did so with the direct knowledge of their superiors. Yet if Elizondo's resignation letter to Sec. Mattis was genuine, it strangely doesn't mention anything about either AAWSAP,AATIP or even Elizondo's own role in these studies!!!

a reply to: mirageman

However it also claims the 'small staff' assigned did so with the direct knowledge of their superiors. Yet if Elizondo's resignation letter to Sec. Mattis was genuine, it strangely doesn't mention anything about either AAWSAP,AATIP or even Elizondo's own role in these studies!!!

He may have had the impression it was classified.

If not a dollar was assigned to ATTIP then maybe they had no official status. Its said they did these investigations part time to their usual jobs.

hobbies paid for by the US taxpayer.

I wish Uncle Sam would pay for my My Little Pony pettng zoo hobby.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

He may have had the impression it was classified.

Lue was the Director of National Programs Special Management Staff



Source

He was literally in charge of who had access to a SAP [Special Access Programs].


Source [P52]

Surely he would know the status of AATIP? That it was refused SAP status and Mattis would have overview anyway?

If not a dollar was assigned to ATTIP then maybe they had no official status. It's said they did these investigations part time to their usual jobs.

Having spent too much time with Bigelow's Mob. It may well have been nothing more than Zondo's little hobby with no official status whatsoever.