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Breaking BAASS, Assessing AATIP and Doubting Thomas ‘DeLonge’

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posted on Dec, 1 2021 @ 03:04 PM
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Yeah, I recall Bender in unidentified. He was the TTSA too friendly journalist, nowhere near the Intercept journalist who did a real journalistic job in exposing some holes in the narrative, which was dealt with on this thread a while back. theintercept.com...


What ufology needs is a real analysis of the fact that for 74 years we’ve had numerous documented ufo events similar to anything this new mob descendent from TTSA has produced as a ufo experience. It boils to this: YOU HAVE NOTHING NEW, JOKERS!

So, there going after the new blood devoid of the ultra-skepticism of us old-time ufo buffs who have been to the woodshed of lies, deception from these usual suspects, and are tired of their old con game….!

At least, please…bring a new con.

Your boring us…



posted on Dec, 2 2021 @ 06:22 AM
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a reply to: peaceinoutz




What ufology needs is a real analysis of the fact that for 74 years we’ve had numerous documented ufo events similar to anything this new mob descendent from TTSA has produced as a ufo experience. It boils to this: YOU HAVE NOTHING NEW, JOKERS!


If you look at what happened prior to the formation of TTSA there was a backstory being seeded. For at least a decade, maybe longer? Then in Dec 2017 a bunch of new and mainly ignorant social media influencers/podcasters, pushing the same narrative, seemingly arrived almost out of nowhere. A selected number of 'journalists' pushed a similar narrative by asking softball questions and providing lots of hearsay. But very little in the way of facts. Sprinkled on top with a few ex-military pilots telling tales about seeing strange things. Then the politicians arrived with their "can't rule out the aliens" speeches.

This is the story where the world's most expensively funded military struggles to identify 'threats' in the sky so ignores them. One where alien technology was secreted into private aerospace corporations, and it all happened so long ago that it was virtually forgotten about.

Ufology before 2004 has been cleansed by a company populated by ex-intelligence men, a middle-aged punk and their social media twits lower down the foodchain. With a maverick counter-intelligence agent now leading a 'disclosure' movement. His emails mysteriously go missing. But he still has security clearances and works for the US government as a contractor.

There seems to be plenty of folk out there buying into it all with an almost cult-like devotion. But there are no accurately measurable objectives. Instead, achievement is measured in the volume of conversations a few hundred folk can generate on social media!

It doesn't of course mean there aren't genuine mysteries to be solved. But when the US military and its people get involved, then proceed with extreme caution.



edit on 2/12/2021 by mirageman because: ...



posted on Dec, 2 2021 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: mirageman




If you look at what happened prior to the formation of TTSA there was a backstory being seeded. For at least a decade, maybe longer? Then in Dec 2017 a bunch of new and mainly ignorant social media influencers/podcasters, pushing the same narrative, seemingly arrived almost out of nowhere. A selected number of 'journalists' pushed a similar narrative by asking softball questions and providing lots of hearsay. But very little in the way of facts. Sprinkled on top with a few ex-military pilots telling tales about seeing strange things. Then the politicians arrived with their "can't rule out the aliens" speeches.


That’s an interesting idea and I can accept that premise, although with all the strange stuff going out by most, save for a few sober ufo researchers, it's reached a saturation point of the absurd, to beat the ban.

Just recently, I joined something called Hoopla( which they have a version of in the UK as well) some may be familiar with, which is a library app where if you have a library card anywhere you get access to ebooks of all kinds of stuff you normally wouldn’t even get at your library.

And for goodness’ sake, I was shocked at the volume of UFO books. And many of them are of the weird, to say the least, variety of ufo theory( but many traditional and reasonable) with all kinds of stuff you couldn’t imagine! Though, parenthetically, I must say it's a GREAT resource since many of the books are good and reasonable and therefore good research material for ufo buffs and researchers. At least can save you a buck.

So, I could believe your premise, knowing you’re a top researcher but it’s a flooded zone… that is UFO books and the ones on amazon today are mostly not too very good, IMO.

That, I believe is what they wanted to produce starting from the early 80’s Bennewitz, Moore, Doty, MJ12 period culminating in Serpo, a hoax related to some of the TTSA experts or at least one major guy there.

So certainly it's likely been a guided—over the years—op which we all can get some popcorn and see what they do next.



posted on Dec, 2 2021 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: mirageman


Don't know if he's been reading this thread but here's a new one from Carrion.



Claims of Paranormal Activity at Skinwalker Ranch, Campfire Tales?



posted on Dec, 3 2021 @ 08:12 AM
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a reply to: karl 12

Thanks for the link. There's some information there I wasn't aware of.

James has been on the Skinwalker case a very long time. He was actually MUFON's International Director during the Bigelow contract negotiations in 2008/9. Which involved some well known characters. See photo below.

He was never made aware that the DIA were the hidden sponsors during negotiations.

There's some great reporting on that at Curt's site : Breaking the Silence: AATIP's Secret Partner Speaks

A few small excerpts below.




MUFON- BAASS Contract negotiations: Las Vegas, NV, Jan. 2009 BAASS: Hal Puthoff and Jacques Vallee, MUFON: John Schuessler




Carrion: … given the timing of Bigelow's startup activity and engagement with MUFON. Bigelow disclosed the sponsor to Schuessler but not the rest of the MUFON Board....

Q: At the January 2009 Las Vegas meeting (to set up the SIP field investigations contract) with Robert Bigelow and his BAASS team, I believe you'd already interacted with Colm Kelleher, but when did you first know that Hal Puthoff and Jacques Vallee were involved?

Carrion: The first I knew of Puthoff and Vallée’s involvements was when they showed up at the January meeting.

Q: What were their roles in this meeting, and what did they say about their work for Bigelow?

Carrion: I was never told exactly what their roles were. Neither Puthoff nor Vallee volunteered any information to me about what exactly they were doing on the project...




It also includes the case files passed to BAASS as part of the STAR Impact Program negotiated with Bigelow : Link



posted on Dec, 3 2021 @ 01:54 PM
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The only oddities on Skinwalker in that recent cable show were some energy anomalies, though a ufo did appear to show up at one point, a very bleary and shaky-shaped thing of some sort. The rabbi from ancient aliens showed up and recited some formulas that produced---again, some energy anomalies…getting really cold it appeared.

And one of the managers got a huge lump on his skull a couple of times. But no ghosts, giant wolves, or any regular ufos of any exciting sort. Oh, excuse me, a poor cow died and they did a gory autopsy on tv that was disgusting.

So, when Bigelow brought this hot dog spooky place and it turned out to be probably not worth the money he paid for it, he had to maintain its spook rep at least in order to sell it to some other million or billionaire who has money to throw away on such nonsense. So that he did.

Over the years, Skinwalker IMO has been the fakest story I’ve ever known, not far behind Lazar and Roswell.
They say it will likely be renewed for another season on the History channel.

Not waiting to see that again.



posted on Dec, 3 2021 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

You know reading your link’s analysis regarding AAWSAP versus ATTIP reminds me of something you’ve said before about Nick Pope, that he wasn’t all that he was cracked up to be, but just a part-time ufo info gatherer for the UK mod.

I think Elizondo was the same thing. Though, in his case, they wanted to start this operation with TTSA so they threw him in the mix.

According to that recent spooky book from the AAWSAP head, BTW, a very corny and phony book IMO, ATTIP was an afterthought from AAWSAP and nothing really substantial or even funded properly according to your links research.

I’ve said before my opinion is that this whole TTSA, ATTIP AAWSAP deal was to get Bigelow some bucks but I have to admit the dates on that idea may be problematic.

Bigelow got the AAWSAP contract in 2008 or maybe early 2009 and his MUFON relationship was in 2008 also. I had mistakenly or just forgotten the Mufon deal was before or simultaneous to the AAWSAP contract. I’d like to know the exact dates Bigelow hooked up with Mufon. The AAWSAP contract had to start after 8 or 9/2008. So, the dates are close, so it’s still a viable conspiracy theory that one had something to do with the other. Recalling Bigelow did kick out some of his own money on the Mufon deal originally before he reneged. But maybe that was all government AAWSAP money? Did Bigelow do the Mufon deal before or after he started or got the AAWSAP contract? I'll have to look into that.
So, the thing is they were connected in some way, for sure. A very confusing story overall.

Poor James Carrion, a good guy, was dealing in the big-time scammers and really got kind of overwhelmed.

These guys are ruthless.

I forgot to mention, though the AAWSAP deal was way after Bigelows NIDS research, and although I can't prove anything, some of that research I believe may have been doctored to add to the unknown and unseen AAWSAP results. Bigelow as far as we know did fund that on his own dime.

edit on 3-12-2021 by peaceinoutz because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-12-2021 by peaceinoutz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2021 @ 06:01 AM
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a reply to: peaceinoutz




You know reading your link’s analysis regarding AAWSAP versus ATTIP reminds me of something you’ve said before about Nick Pope, that he wasn’t all that he was cracked up to be, but just a part-time ufo info gatherer for the UK mod. I think Elizondo was the same thing. Though, in his case, they wanted to start this operation with TTSA so they threw him in the mix.


Nick's job was a matter of public record. Per MoD document DEFE 24/2000.



Nick wrote his first book "Open Skies, Closed Minds" in 1996 but remained with the MoD until he'd done enough years to receive a nice public pension package. Then off he trotted to America about 10 years ago.

There's a possibility that Lue is also using utilising the UFO community to build his brand. If his Never Ship Empty venture wasn't an undercover operation, then he obviously had plans for a future beyond govt. service.

The Pentagon was offering increased severance packages in 2017 for early retirement in attempts to meet a 25% reduction in staff.

See : federalnewsnetwork.com...

Joining TTSA in late 2017 was obviously a good PR opportunity for him too. There's also been hints that Lue was touting for a ghostwriter for his book before it was announced. His objective is limited to wanting people "to have a conversation" about UFOs. Which enables him to saturate the TV/radio/podcast/conference circuit before his book gets released.

So there are parallels between Cardinal Lue and the Pope!



posted on Dec, 4 2021 @ 06:14 AM
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I’ve said before my opinion is that this whole TTSA, ATTIP AAWSAP deal was to get Bigelow some bucks but I have to admit the dates on that idea may be problematic.


BAASS was registered in Jan 2008, 8 months prior to the AAWSAP contract being advertised for tender on 20th August 2008. BAASS was the sole bidder too.

quote]
Recalling Bigelow did kick out some of his own money on the Mufon deal originally before he reneged. But maybe that was all government AAWSAP money? Did Bigelow do the Mufon deal before or after he started or got the AAWSAP contract?


The contract between MUFON and Bigelow Aeronautic and Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) was conceived as early as Sept 2008 and signed in February 2009. I don't believe that Bigelow used any of his own funds. There's an old C2C show kicking around from 28th Sept 2008 where he clearly mentions they have a 'backer' for his new company [BAASS] looking into novel technology. Without revealing who that backer was.

Bigelow only paid around out $324k of a $650k deal with MUFON. Some of that money went on the scientific papers. More of it on salaries for the staff. Yet much of the $22m AAWSAP funding is still unaccounted for.



I forgot to mention, though the AAWSAP deal was way after Bigelows NIDS research, and although I can't prove anything, some of that research I believe may have been doctored to add to the unknown and unseen AAWSAP results.


The only known output from AAWSAP is a list of 38 DIRD papers. Not all are actually available in the public domain.

But possibly a way of rewarding the authors for services rendered elsewhere in the support of the national security state? There are some family names on the list.






posted on Dec, 4 2021 @ 10:53 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

Thanks for the always great response mm.



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