Breaking BAASS, Assessing AATIP and Doubting Thomas ‘DeLonge’

Another bemusing or maybe amusing quote from Zondo in GQ is this one....

...Sometimes you just couldn’t believe it – you’d have seven or eight incidents in a single day. I’d get these emails from an admiral or a ship’s captain saying, “Lue, what do you want me to do? I can’t keep people below deck forever. These things are swarming my ship, they’re all over the place.” That’s tough. I kept promising the cavalry was coming and I’d have answers for them and the cavalry never came. Senior leadership didn’t want to deal with it. ..


GQ Magazine

US Navy officers emailing Lue as UAPs swarm their ships? What are they smoking over there?

a reply to: mirageman

……“I’d get these emails from an admiral or a ship’s captain saying, “Lue, what do you want me to do? I can’t keep people below deck forever. These things are swarming my ship, they’re all over the place.”



👽😂🍺

originally posted by: mirageman
US Navy officers emailing Lue as UAPs swarm their ships? What are they smoking over there?

Will Greenewald FOIA those e-mails too, only to find they've either been deleted like Lou's, or never existed?

That "Pyramid UFO" video was shot right under a main flight corridor going to and from LA across the pacific, so if they didn't know what the heck they were looking at, it probably would seem like a swarm, but you know the strobing navigation lights should have been a good clue, even on the "pyramid".

Randomly switching gears to why Bigelow hired Mufon to do field investigations...

Have you folks have seen this quote before? Maybe it's been posted here and Imissed it, it is a long thread.

“…Mr. Bigelow hired Mufon to try and capture a UFO on the ground so he can back engineering it to transport people in space…This is the truth and no exaggeration!” – Denise M. Stoner, Chief Investigator Florida – Mufon State Section Director

I just stumbled across it for the first time when browsing the skinwalkerranch website, under the "quotes" section, claiming Bigelow's intent with Mufon was to capture a UFO so he could reverse engineer the technology and use it in Bigelow Aerospace company.

I know we've all heard some funds were allocated for Bigelow to store some kind of exotic materials (how much and what did he do with the funds? Nobody knows except Bigelow?), but then Bigelow said in his interview with George Knapp that he never got the materials because they were too sensitive and they didn't want to give Bigelow possession of the materials.

Well guess what, if in the unlikely event Bigelow did happen to capture an alien spacecraft, do you think they'd let him keep THAT? To reverse engineer it? That would be way more sensitive than the metamaterials or industrial slag or "Arts Parts" or whatever, and they wouldn't even let him have those. Maybe he was hoping to reverse engineer those materials too? Bigelow might have believed some hype of alien origin, but I doubt that the materials were alien, at least not in the ET sense, maybe in the from a "foreign country" sense, though even that is far from certain.

Here's our hero who just finished his turkey( not TTSA BTW)---you UK guys don't have a thanksgiving having kicked out the puritans, but this is from the UK.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

I think it's now fairly apparent Lou - and all those other "govt. officials" who have attached their name to the "ET Threat" narrative - know they aren't dealing with Aliens....

Rationale:
If you're investigating an adversary- you dont tell them who is conducting the investigation/where you are based/which dept./etc - as evidenced by Lou's much more realistic, guarded responses when asked about his previous role in anti terrorism.

Lou is scared of humans with god pleasing beards seeking revenge - but completely fearless about highlighting himself to what he is selling as an invisible, near omnipotent adversary which not only brazenly buzzes Naval vessels in phalanx range- but also turns up in the bedroom of high level CIA guys (a la Semivan).

Who did the risk analysis??

All of these people would be sleeping in anal probe proof bunkers if there was really an ET/NHI threat....not broadcasting it on the internet (presumably working on the basis adversary space faring NHI's dont have an IP addy/TV??)

a reply to: Jukiodone

i think the real powers that run this world would LOVE to meet real aliens and would sell our species down the river for the right trinket

Until they are open and honest about this subject than everything they say even if it sounds good is still worthless.

no real proof, even documents don't offer real proof, something that can reach out and touch you...or so they say



or the truth is so bad they dare not speak it out of worry of a panic because we cant stop, intercept, communicate with the others.

the truth might be something so dark and so bad they really are doing us a favor not telling the world.

I just wanted to mention one thing about this TTSA and media storm that started in 2017.

They, the government, have co-opted the narrative on UFOLogy. Every recent UFOLological theme, topic, or incidental mention always detours to the 2017 event in the mass media heralding this Nimitz episode. I'm so tired of seeing that stupid and phony-looking (supposed ufo) whirling around like a child's spinning top I could throw up.

The whole event just might have been an op just to see the bankruptcy of ufology and the fact they always have owned the narrative, openly or secretly. And when they had it secretly all kinds of junk entered ufological lore.

They have the floor and the national attention. So, what are they going to do with it?

Probably nothing.

I can't post this in the thread relevant to this so I'll put it here. The thread for the record about TTSA and its offspring.

It goes into this Dod new successor to the UAP task force renamed AOIMSG

Greenwald mentions that here they go again, changing names and further confusing researchers.

Interestingly, at 19:49, Greenwald mentions and quotes Elizondo's very negative commentary on this new pentagon UAP group.

It sort of indicates that there is a division within the IC and government community over UAPs.

Elizondo sounds like one of us now. Elizondo better watch his back and his mouth...biting the hand that feeds you often backfires.


[

originally posted by: peaceinoutz

I can't post this in the thread relevant to this

Why not? I assume you mean this thread?

so I'll put it here. The thread for the record about TTSA and its offspring.

I'm not complaining about you posting it here since the topic of this thread seems pretty broad. So it seems like a close enough fit here. I'm just curious why you say you can't post to the other thread since you didn't give any explanation for that, and I don't understand why you can't.

Greenwald mentions that here they go again, changing names and further confusing researchers.

H'e's right, those acronyms are messy.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
Interestingly, at 19:49, Greenwald mentions and quotes Elizondo's very negative commentary on this new pentagon UAP group.

It sort of indicates that there is a division within the IC and government community over UAPs.

It may sound like an internal division but I'm not sure how much of that is real.

Senator Gillibrand's effort to get more information to the public may be real, and Greenewald applauds that. But where Elizondo is concerned, it's hard to believe he wants that too, since he said he was not in favor of releasing the three Navy videos that were released by the pentagon, and that's just one clue. I am not sold on the idea of an internal division within military and military intelligence, I think they are all fine with keeping as much secret as possible and revealing as little as possible. Elizondo talks about telling the public more but he never actually does, citing his NDA as the reason he keeps secrets too.

On that topic of "whistleblowers", Greenewald shows Elizondo's tweet saying "The USDA is the one single office that has consinuously lied about this topic and persecuted whistleblowers". Then Greenewald asks what whistleblowers? Elizondo doesn't come across as a whistleblower since he is always citing his NDA instead of telling us anything useful.

Even if Senator Gillibrand's effort to get more reports to the public succeeds, I'm not holding high hopes that they will be any more informative than the June 25 2021 report resulting from work of the UAP task force, which as Greenewald said gave us a few nuggets, but gave us no idea what's relaly going on. I share Greenewald's skepticism of the claim they could only identify one of the 143 UAPs, so yes we got that report but in many respects it's quite useless and in other respects it's not even credible, that only one UAP was identified, (and it wasn't the batman balloon, it was some other balloon).

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I went to a thread that spoke about this topic and for some reason couldn't post there. I recall vaguely there were two of them and the one I went to couldn't post. That might have been the thread you point out but I doubt it since I can post now on it.


I hear you on the division not being real. Very likely. But of course, like most things in ufology and life--we just don't KNOW.

...And skepticism is justified, to beat the band!

a reply to: Jukiodone

Indeed. No other nation but America is pushing this 'might be aliens' agenda. If there was a problem with aliens then there are 200+ sovereign nations in the world and the USA would be unable to keep a lid on it and Zondo is slowly walking his disciples into a world of woo.

Then we have Bigelow. A man who has almost monopolized UFO research in North America with his tactics. He claimed aliens were 'right under your nose' in a TV interview but offers nothing in the way of proof whatsoever. But current UFO twits do not seem interested in pressuring him or his chums to account for their claims. Which perhaps suggests who they are all working for. Whether they know it or not.

Despite various mouthpieces claiming AAWSAP was a UFO and paranormal study, the wording of the contract says otherwise. Which means someone isn't being truthful.

a reply to: mirageman

Maybe Bigelow is telling us aliens have mustaches.

It’s the new people they can deceive, those who don’t know the history of the IC and government shenanigans or much of the folly of many ufologists. Maybe that’s why they got Mr. rock n roll as their initial frontman to peddle their stuff.

“Disclosure” though actually may have happened in a roundabout way: they disclosed they know nothing or they have told us of their ignorance and impotence.

The best one can say about this TTSA affair and its ongoing ramifications is that supposedly their taking UFO sightings seriously on some kind of reboot.

Of course, that remains to be seen.

How Harry Reid, a Terrorist Interrogator and the Singer from Blink-182 Took UFOs Mainstream

The hidden history of how Washington embraced a fringe field of science.

www.politico.com...

www.politico.com...
Good article. Some interesting things in this long article that goes over the ground we all know but has some new or different information.

Other public and private entities are embracing a subject that once would have been fatal to their institutional credibility. “What if invisible aliens exist among us, already here but unseen by human eyes?” asks a recent blog post from Northrop Grumman, one of the Pentagon's largest contractors and a bastion of corporate orthodoxy. “Do aliens exist?” asks another entry. “Scientists wonder if extraterrestrial life has visited Earth.” It can sound like a cheesy trailer for a History Channel documentary, except the scientists they’re referring to are working at some of the nation’s most elite schools.

Indeed, as much as many of us on this thread bemoan what we believe is a deceptive organization led by characters with questionable motives, one must begrudgingly admit, they--TTSA--for better or worse have been the catalyst for catapulting Ufology into the bloodstream of mainstream conversation.


I did search it out but If it's been posted then just ignore it.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

...as much as many of us on this thread bemoan what we believe is a deceptive organization led by characters with questionable motives, one must begrudgingly admit, they--TTSA--for better or worse have been the catalyst for catapulting Ufology into the bloodstream of mainstream conversation...

Certainly. But it was something almost totally American-centric.The initial Dec 2017 stories of a secret Pentagon study of UFOs might have made headlines around the world. But interest fell away after a few days. The trash tabloids in Britain love a good crazy UFO story, but they are generally only posted to their websites.

It's entirely possible that, as crazy as it looks, TTSA was used to garner publicity in a plan that was already in place. Which 'might' have been to get the military to start taking incursions of UAS, UAV, drones and balloons etc. seriously as possible ways adversaries are spying on vital installations and hardware. Then force them to share information with other agencies.

Elizondo is happy to talk UFOs and Woo FOs all day on low quality podcasts. But won't tell us which government contractor he now works for or what this job entails.

There's an interesting piece here echoing some things in the thread : The UFO Information Operation

And also an old column about how media 'analysts were groomed by the Pentagon during the Iraq War.

..."Records and interviews show how the Bush administration has used its control over access and information in an effort to transform the analysts into a kind of media Trojan horse -- an instrument intended to shape terrorism coverage from inside the major TV and radio networks," the newspaper said....

Many of the commentators also have ties to military contractors who are vested in U.S. war efforts, but those business links are seldom disclosed to viewers, and sometimes not even to the networks on which they appear, the newspaper said.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

...Disclosure” though actually may have happened in a roundabout way: they disclosed they know nothing or they have told us of their ignorance and impotence. The best one can say about this TTSA affair and its ongoing ramifications is that supposedly they're taking UFO sightings seriously on some kind of reboot.

Every time there's been an official study there has never been confirmation of anything extra-terrestrial, just some unexplainable sightings. However, if something can be weaponized, poses a threat, or provide a new source of power, then you can be sure there would be military interest. Whatever the source.

In the 1950s the US military were worried that UFO reports could be manipulated by the Soviets to overload detection systems. So a 'ridicule' factor was adopted to discourage reporting. The stigma can be lifted in the age of BIG DATA and mobile technology, it is much easier to collect reports in real time without overloading sensor systems.

Weren't TTSA supposedly launching an app for such a purpose?

a reply to: mirageman

Thanks for the link, I will surely check it out closely.

I have little respect for TTSA, and never did but in the beginning, waited to see what they would do as they raised expectations and produced NOTHING.

Whether they were part of an agenda to upgrade government concern about ufos is based on cause and effect, not direct evidence but I can accept the premise that they were responsible for this but that boils down to meaning nothing tangible regarding disclosure what they pretended to be all about from the start.

Now, let’s say we concede they may have been responsible for this supposed new outlook on ufos by the US government, who in the past were sinister liars about the subject.

Then where does that leave us any better off regarding discovering what this phenomenon is all about?
I say, nowhere! Its as if we're starting all over again, and I suspect maybe they’ll recreate the blue book( in the same vein of UFO to UAP) and maybe call it, the black book, or the red book, it doesn’t matter, and we go like a merry-go-round, round and round we go and where it stops...
...nobody knows.

www.politico.com...

There’s precedent for the latter: The results of the raft of theoretical studies that were commissioned by the Pentagon’s AATIP program between 2009 and 2012 were ultimately compiled in a 300-page doorstopper of a report by Bigelow Aerospace. Some were classified; many were not, but even the unclassified reports were never made public, because Mellon and others felt they would be embarrassing and only undercut their long-term efforts.

Where exactly is this 300-page " door-stopper"? The results of Bigelow's report?

Dozens of men and women we have entrusted with the defense of our country are telling us about encounters with unidentified aircraft with capabilities we do not fully understand,” Marco Rubio told me. “We cannot allow the stigma of UFOs to keep us from seriously investigating these encounters.
So this has been going on for decades…nothing new

Yeah, I read the entire article I posted and think it's not an objective analysis but a too-friendly take on the characters involved and a hero-worship type reference to Delonge.

Maybe he is a hero if one thinks he was the catalyst for the new outlook on UFOs.

Okay, so they’ll be more accepting of UFO research almost like it was from the early period which we have to realize had numerous legitimate research organizations that didn’t expose or reveal what’s behind the phenomena. I don’t have to read the list. So, sure, well have some privately funded groups come up just as we had in the past and likely they’ll produce exactly nothing new in this research just as the past groups produced nothing tangible, government or private.

Forgive me for posting this TTSA behind kissing article. I believe this is the guy who was in that doc from politico reporting like Knapp as if he's asleep to TTSAs BS.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Where exactly is this 300-page " door-stopper"? The results of Bigelow's report?

I think Zondo gave it to Lieutenant Tim, the former police officer who parachuted into ufology like many other characters did in 2018, now posing as a journalist in Germany, He wrote a blog about it here : Inside the Pentagon's Secret UFO Program

He seems to have been the chosen one as I don't know of any other person not employed by BAASS or the DoD who has seen it.

Although the report is quoted as being 494 pages there!

The 494-page “Ten Month Report,” as it’s called, is chock full of strategic plans, project summaries, data tables, charts, descriptions of biological field effects, physical characteristics, methods of detection, theoretical capabilities, witness interviews, photographs, and case synopses—each one entirely, explicitly about unexplained aerial phenomena....

It goes on

Throughout the report, “the sponsor” is mentioned, however, the DIA is never explicitly named.
The first pages list the names of every contractor working for BAASS with appropriate security clearances to have access to the program. Amongst dozens of credentialed names, some of those listed are very familiar to the UFO community, including Puthoff, Davis, Jacques Vallee, and Colm Kelleher. Regardless of one’s existing opinions of the UFO phenomena, the sheer volume of content in the BAASS Ten Month Report is astounding.

Some of the notable content of the 2009 BAASS Ten Month Report includes:

● Overview of the BAASS Physics Division’s efforts to conduct research on advanced aerospace vehicles, including the development of standardization for measurement of physical effects and signatures associated with UAP.
● Overview of BAASS research for measuring and gleaning the effects on biological organisms from UAP.
● Mention of Skinwalker Ranch in Utah as a “possible laboratory for studying other intelligences and possible interdimensional phenomena.”
● Strategic plans to organize a series of intellectual debate forums targeted to broad audiences pertaining to the “potential disclosure of an extraterrestrial presence.”
● Plans to create a “medical physiological UAP effects program.”
● Request for Project Blue Book files that have not been made public.
● Mention of BAASS program dubbed “Project Northern Tier,” which involved securing documents related to instances where dozens of UFOs flew over restricted airspaces of facilities housing nuclear weapons.
● A possible UAP landing reported to BAASS by the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) and its STAR Team (rapid response field investigators funded by BAASS in March 2009).
● Project databases of UAP-related materials compiled through various partnerships, and the intent to expand these databases by coordinating with foreign governments.
● Summaries of multiple UAP events both inside the U.S. and in foreign countries.
● Photographs of UAPs provided by various sources, including foreign governments....

There's even a single page copy from the report.

...Forgive me for posting this TTSA behind kissing article. I believe this is the guy who was in that doc from politico reporting like Knapp as if he's asleep to TTSAs BS.

It was Bryan Bender. He did appear in the Unidentified TV series. He's not in bed with Vegas UFO Mob as the likes of George. But in this day and age independent, objective journalism is dying out rapidly. If it isn't already dead.

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
www.politico.com...

Yeah, I read the entire article I posted and think it's not an objective analysis but a too-friendly take on the characters involved and a hero-worship type reference to Delonge.

Bryan Bender was the 'house journalist' for TTSA. He appeared in several episodes of "Unidentified" to say how awesome DeLonge and the others were.