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Nothing evolved to immortality so far.

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posted on Jul, 15 2021 @ 02:58 AM

originally posted by: Toothache
a reply to: TerraLiga

I agree. Everything we think we know is really probabilities based off evidence. New information or data could change those pretty easily. That's why to me concepts like "absolute truth" are completely incoherent. We are in no position to hold such truths.

“What Is Truth?”

THE two men facing each other could scarcely have been more dissimilar. One was a politician who was cynical, ambitious, wealthy, ready to do anything to advance his own career. The other was a teacher who spurned wealth and prestige and was prepared to sacrifice his life to save the lives of others. Needless to say, these two men did not see eye to eye! On one matter in particular, they disagreed absolutely​—the matter of truth.

The men were Pontius Pilate and Jesus Christ. Jesus was standing before Pilate as a condemned criminal. Why? Jesus explained that the reason for this​—indeed, the very reason that he had come to the earth and undertaken his ministry—​came down to one thing: truth. “For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world,” he said, “that I should bear witness to the truth.”​—John 18:37.

Pilate’s reply was a memorable question: “What is truth?” (John 18:38) Did he really want an answer? Probably not. Jesus was the kind of man who could answer any question asked of him in sincerity, but he did not answer Pilate. And the Bible says that after asking his question, Pilate walked straight out of the audience chamber. The Roman governor likely asked the question in cynical disbelief, as if to say, “Truth? What is that? There is no such thing!”*

Pilate’s skeptical view of truth is not uncommon today. Many believe that truth is relative​—in other words, that what is true to one person may be untrue to another, so that both may be “right.” This belief is so widespread that there is a word for it​—“relativism.” Is this how you view the matter of truth? If so, is it possible that you have adopted this view without thoroughly questioning it? Even if you have not, do you know how much this philosophy affects your life?

An Assault on Truth

Pontius Pilate was hardly the first person to question the idea of absolute truth. Some ancient Greek philosophers made the teaching of such doubts virtually their life’s work! Five centuries before Pilate, Parmenides (who has been considered the father of European metaphysics) held that real knowledge was unattainable. Democritus, hailed as “the greatest of ancient philosophers,” asserted: “Truth is buried deep. . . . We know nothing for certain.” Perhaps the most revered of them all, Socrates, said that all that he really knew was that he knew nothing.

This assault on the idea that truth can be known has continued down to our day. Some philosophers, for instance, say that since knowledge reaches us through our senses, which can be deceived, no knowledge is verifiably true. French philosopher and mathematician René Descartes decided to examine all the things he thought he knew for certain. He discarded all but one truth that he deemed incontrovertible: “Cogito ergo sum,” or, “I think, therefore I am.”

A Culture of Relativism

Relativism is not limited to philosophers. It is taught by religious leaders, indoctrinated in schools, and spread by the media. Episcopal bishop John S. Spong said a few years ago: “We must . . . move from thinking we have the truth and others must come to our point of view to the realization that ultimate truth is beyond the grasp of all of us.” Spong’s relativism, like that of so many clergymen today, is quick to drop the Bible’s moral teachings in favor of a philosophy of “to each his own.” For example, in an effort to make homosexuals feel more “comfortable” in the Episcopal Church, Spong wrote a book claiming that the apostle Paul was a homosexual!

In many lands the school systems seem to engender a similar type of thinking. Allan Bloom wrote in his book The Closing of the American Mind: “There is one thing a professor can be absolutely certain of: almost every student entering the university believes, or says he believes, that truth is relative.” Bloom found that if he challenged his students’ conviction on this matter, they would react with astonishment, “as though he were calling into question 2 + 2 = 4.”

The same thinking is promoted in countless other ways. For instance, TV and newspaper reporters often seem more interested in entertaining their viewers than in getting at the truth of a story. Some news programs have even doctored or faked film footage in order to make it appear more dramatic. And in entertainment a stronger attack is mounted on truth. The values and moral truths that our parents and grandparents lived by are widely viewed as obsolete and are often held up to outright ridicule.

Of course, some might argue that much of this relativism represents open-mindedness and therefore has a positive impact on human society. Does it really, though? And what about its impact on you? Do you believe that truth is relative or nonexistent? If so, searching for it may strike you as a waste of time. Such an outlook will affect your future.

[Footnote from earlier]

According to Bible scholar R. C. H. Lenski, Pilate’s “tone is that of an indifferent worldling who by his question intends to say that anything in the nature of religious truth is a useless speculation.”

[continued in next comment]

posted on Jul, 15 2021 @ 03:15 AM
Why Search for Truth?

MANY religious organizations claim to have the truth, and they offer it eagerly to others. However, between them they offer a dizzying profusion of “truths.” Is this just another evidence that all truths are relative, that there are no absolute truths? No.

In his book The Art of Thinking, Professor V. R. Ruggiero expresses his surprise that even intelligent people sometimes say that truth is relative. He reasons: “If everyone makes his own truth, then no person’s idea can be better than another’s. All must be equal. And if all ideas are equal, what is the point in researching any subject? Why dig in the ground for answers to archeological questions? Why probe the causes of tension in the Middle East? Why search for a cancer cure? Why explore the galaxy? These activities make sense only if some answers are better than others, if truth is something separate from, and unaffected by, individual perspectives.”

In fact, no one really believes that there is no truth. When it comes to physical realities, such as medicine, mathematics, or the laws of physics, even the staunchest relativist will believe that some things are true. Who of us would dare to ride in an airplane if we did not think that the laws of aerodynamics were absolute truths? Verifiable truths do exist; they surround us, and we stake our lives on them.

The Price of Relativism

It is in the moral realm, though, where the errors of relativism are most apparent, for it is here that such thinking has done the most harm. The Encyclopedia Americana makes this point: “It has been seriously doubted whether knowledge, or known truth, is humanly attainable . . . It is certain, however, that whenever the twin ideals of truth and knowledge are rejected as visionary or harmful, human society decays.”

Perhaps you have noticed such decay. For example, the Bible’s moral teachings, which say clearly that sexual immorality is wrong, are only rarely held as truths anymore. Situation ethics​—“decide what is right for you”—​is the order of the day. Could anyone claim that social decay has not resulted from this relativistic outlook? Surely the worldwide epidemics of sexually transmitted diseases, broken homes, and teenage pregnancies speak for themselves.

What Is the Truth?

So let us leave the murky waters of relativism and examine briefly what the Bible describes as the pure waters of truth. (John 4:14; Revelation 22:17) In the Bible, “truth” is not at all like the abstract, intangible concept over which philosophers debate.

When Jesus said that his whole purpose in life was to talk about the truth, he was speaking of something that faithful Jews had valued for centuries. In their sacred writings, the Jews had long read of “truth” as something concrete, not theoretical. In the Bible, “truth” translates the Hebrew word “ʼemethʹ,” which signifies that which is firm, solid, and, perhaps most of all, reliable.

The Jews had good reason for viewing truth in that way. They called their God, Jehovah, “the God of truth.” (Psalm 31:5) This was because everything Jehovah said he would do, he did. When he made promises, he kept them. When he inspired prophecies, they were fulfilled. When he uttered final judgments, they were carried out. Millions of Israelites had been eyewitnesses of these realities. The inspired penmen of the Bible recorded them as indisputable facts of history. Unlike other books viewed as sacred, the Bible is not set against a backdrop of myth or legend. It is firmly grounded in verifiable facts​—historical, archaeological, scientific, and sociological realities. No wonder the psalmist says of Jehovah: “Your law is truth. . . . All your commandments are truth. . . . The substance of your word is truth”!​—Psalm 119:142, 151, 160.

Jesus Christ echoed the words of that psalm when he said in prayer to Jehovah: “Your word is truth.” (John 17:17) Jesus knew that everything his Father spoke was absolutely firm and reliable. Likewise, Jesus was “full of . . . truth.” (John 1:14) His followers learned as eyewitnesses, and recorded for all posterity, that everything he said was rock solid, the truth.*

However, when Jesus told Pilate that he had come to earth to speak the truth, he had a specific truth in mind. Jesus made that statement in response to Pilate’s question: “Are you a king?” (John 18:37) God’s Kingdom, and Jesus’ own role as its King, were the very theme, the core, of Jesus’ teaching while he was on earth. (Luke 4:43) That this Kingdom will sanctify Jehovah’s name, vindicate his sovereignty, and restore faithful mankind to eternal and happy life is the “truth” in which all genuine Christians hope. Since Jesus’ role in the fulfillment of all of God’s promises is so pivotal, and since all of God’s prophecies become “Amen,” or true, because of him, Jesus could well say: “I am the way and the truth and the life.”​—John 14:6; 2 Corinthians 1:20; Revelation 3:14.

Recognizing this truth as completely reliable means a great deal to Christians today. It means that their faith in God and their hope in his promises are based on facts, on realities.

Truth in Action

Not surprisingly, the Bible links truth with action. (1 Samuel 12:24; 1 John 3:18) To God-fearing Jews, truth was not a subject for philosophizing; it was a way of life. The Hebrew word for “truth” could also mean “faithfulness” and was used to describe one who could be trusted to act on his word. Jesus taught his followers to view truth in the same light. He passionately decried the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, the wide gulf between their self-righteous words and their unrighteous deeds. And he set the example in living by the truths he taught.

So it should be for all of Christ’s followers. To them, the truth of God’s Word, the exhilarating good news of God’s Kingdom under the rulership of Jesus Christ, is more, far more, than mere information. That truth moves them to action, compels them to live by it and share it with others. (Compare Jeremiah 20:9.) To the first-century Christian congregation, the way of life they adopted as followers of Christ was sometimes known simply as “the truth” or “the way of the truth.”​—2 John 4; 3 John 4, 8; 2 Peter 2:2.

A Treasure Worth Any Price

Granted, accepting the truths of God’s Word exacts a price. First, just learning the truth can be a shattering experience. The Encyclopedia Americana observes: “The truth is often disagreeable, because it fails to support prejudice or myth.” Seeing our beliefs exposed as untrue can be disillusioning, especially if we were taught by trusted religious leaders. Some might liken the experience to finding out that trusted parents were, in fact, secret criminals. But is not finding out religious truth better than living under a delusion? Is it not better to know the facts than to be manipulated by lies?*​—Compare John 8:32; Romans 3:4.

Second, living by religious truth may cost us the acceptance of some who were formerly our friends. In a world where so many have “exchanged the truth of God for the lie,” those who hold firm to the truth of God’s Word seem peculiar and are sometimes shunned and misunderstood.​—Romans 1:25; 1 Peter 4:4.

But the truth is worth this twofold price. Knowing the truth sets us free from lies, delusions, and superstitions. And when we live by it, the truth strengthens us to endure hardships. God’s truth is so reliable and well-founded, and it so inspires us with hope, that it enables us to stand up under any test. No wonder the apostle Paul likened truth to the wide, sturdy leather belt, or girdle, that soldiers wore into battle!​—Ephesians 6:13, 14.

The Bible proverb says: “Buy truth itself and do not sell it​—wisdom and discipline and understanding.” (Proverbs 23:23) To dismiss truth as relative or nonexistent is to miss out on the most thrilling and fulfilling quest that life offers. To find it is to find hope; to know and love it is to know and love the Creator of the universe and his only-begotten Son; to live by it is to live with purpose and peace of mind, now and forever.​—Proverbs 2:1-5; Zechariah 8:19; John 17:3.


There are over 70 places in the Gospel accounts where Jesus is recorded as using a unique expression to emphasize the truthfulness of his words. He would often say “Amen” (“Truly,” NW) to introduce a sentence. The corresponding Hebrew word meant “certain, true.” Notes The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology: “By introducing his words with amen Jesus labelled them as certain and reliable. He stood by them and made them binding on himself and his hearers. They are an expression of his majesty and authority.”

The Greek word for “truth,” a·leʹthei·a, derives from a word meaning “not concealed,” so the truth often involves the revealing of that which was formerly hidden.​—Compare Luke 12:2.

Does the Truth Ever Change?

THAT question was raised by V. R. Ruggiero in his book The Art of Thinking. His answer is no. He elaborates: “It may sometimes seem to, but on closer inspection it will be found not to.”

“Consider,” he says, “the case of the authorship of the first book of the Bible, the book of Genesis. For centuries Christians and Jews alike believed that the book had a single author. In time this view was challenged, and eventually replaced by the belief that as many as five authors contributed to Genesis. Then, in 1981, the results of a 5-year linguistic analysis of Genesis were published, stating that there is an 82 percent probability of single authorship, as originally thought.

“Has the truth about the authorship of Genesis changed? No. Only our belief has changed. . . . The truth will not be changed by our knowledge or by our ignorance.”

Reverence for Truth

“REVERENCE for truth is not simply the pseudo-cynicism of our own age which tries to ‘unmask’ everything, in the belief that no one and nothing can genuinely lay claim to truth. It is the attitude which combines joyful confidence that truth can indeed be found, with a humble submission to truth whenever and wherever it emerges. Such openness to truth is required of those who worship the God of truth; whilst a due reverence for truth ensures honesty in a man’s dealings with his neighbour, both in word and deed. This is the attitude, we have seen, to which both the O[ld] T[estament] and the N[ew] T[estament] bear witness.”​—The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Volume 3, page 901.

Scientific progress is based on the uncovering of scientific truths.

posted on Jul, 15 2021 @ 03:37 AM

originally posted by: Toothache
a reply to: TerraLiga

I agree. Everything we think we know is really probabilities based off evidence. New information or data could change those pretty easily. That's why to me concepts like "absolute truth" are completely incoherent. We are in no position to hold such truths.

Now if you compare your comment with what the likes of Pontius Pilate, Parmenides, Democritus and Socrates are saying in my previous commentary, you may realize the following truth/fact/reality/certainty (all synonyms, just like these are synonyms: true/factual/certain/absolute/conclusive/correct, without error), which is especially true of human philosophies such as relativism and the view that truth is too elusive to grasp, i.e. Pilate’s skeptical view of and disdainful attitude toward truth:

What has been is what will be,

And what has been done will be done again;

There is nothing new under the sun.

Is there anything of which one may say, “Look at this—it is new”?

It already existed from long ago;

It already existed before our time.
(Ecclesiastes 1:9,10)

Very true, if you allow for a bit of hyperbole in the usage of the word "nothing" (as in, this text is not talking about a new technology being developed or something like that, it's talking about repeating patterns of human behaviour and arguing for specific philosophies, or believing them, adhering to them, promoting or popularizing them, even indoctrinating people with them as mentioned in my previous commentary, etc.; which is something that is “done”).
edit on 15-7-2021 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 15 2021 @ 06:55 PM
Context. You are implying that the word of the the Bible (you didn't say which version) is true - without any evidence but the parables in the Bible itself. I hope you can see the flaw in that rationale. I believe that your faith is true, but categorically not the word of the Bible.

Besides, truth can indeed change. As new or better evidence or facts emerge then the old truth no longer exists. A new truth takes its place.

Everything evolves, even the Bible has changed by revision.

posted on Jul, 30 2021 @ 03:49 PM
a reply to: whereislogic

Where is the logic?

posted on Jul, 30 2021 @ 05:00 PM

originally posted by: TerraLiga
Besides, truth can indeed change. As new or better evidence or facts emerge then the old truth no longer exists. A new truth takes its place.

Exactly. People also say you can't change the past. But history books are also rewritten all the time based on new information. Additionally, memories morph and fade as neural pathways grow and shift, and without solid material evidence the past remains in flux.

Perhaps there is an underlying "truth" to reality, but I'm pretty sure that we as human beings with limited intelligence and senses will likely not find it. We can only get a truth from our own perspectives. Your mileage may vary.

posted on Aug, 9 2021 @ 05:30 AM
You know, Earth has been circling the Sun for a long time. Evolutions come and go, this evolutionarily cycle we are on is not the first.
So it's worth considering the possibility that that there is a god or gods, immortal omnipotent beings who attained the evolutionarily apex way back when. I would imagine they have a lot of fun messing with us, after all how else are they going to kill time in Eternity.
edit on 9-8-2021 by Anadandan because: (no reason given)

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