A firearm safety dilemna... help

a reply to: projectvxn

Mental illness is not black or white. Do you think Jerry Nadler is right in the head? Look how much power this guy has.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: projectvxn

Mental illness is not black or white. Do you think Jerry Nadler is right in the head? Look how much power this guy has.

We already have a diagnosis and the OP stated that his son cannot make rational decisions with a firearm and that his mental state is not conducive to safely handling a firearm, especially in life/death situations.

That's a clean case.

a reply to: projectvxn

We already have a diagnosis and the OP stated that his son cannot make rational decisions with a firearm and that his mental state is not conducive to safely handling a firearm, especially in life/death situations.

i disagree. I find no such statement or act that the son cannot handle a firearm responsibility. I acknowledge that some concerns have been made in what my happen when presented with a difficult situation. It is very standard for many people to have concerns for the future.

To come to any conclusions about ones mental state with some short hearsay comments is somewhat reckless for a decision that will affect the child for the rest of his life. Ultimately it is up to the family to decided.

Being open and honest with the son about the responsibilities of a gun will maintain the family trust. Having some target practice can fun and a good bonding experience. Keep it secure for special events or emergencies.

I don't know much about the situation. The son is 28, he can still get a weapon on the black market, friends or just happen to find one somewhere, there are a lot of them in America. if dad says no, now he has to hide it, he does not get the proper training he needs and more likely to do something stupid with it.

What happens to the son once the parents pass away? Do social services see a mental check mark on his name and drag him away somewhere? Even though he is quite adapt at sorting his own things out?

a reply to: projectvxn

They could come with a diagnosis for you too if they wanted to. Be careful with that.
Let's say there is such thing as a mild autism - Asperger's syndrome. Let's call it in latin and people will buy it. Ok, from the definition he's intelligent but has issues with social interactions. It's a scam. It fits on half the population these days. As long as they dont feed him antidepressants making him clearly psychotic he has right to defend himself from let's say a mob of negroes kicking him to death for a cell phone. Maybe he should pass some test to prove he's able of reasonable decisions but then you could demand it from everyone.

OP is biased I'm telling you. Never-touch-the-trigger-guy. He came here for approval or alibi after he made his mind not for answers.

a reply to: PapagiorgioCZ

It's already law. If you have a mental disorder that is so severe that you can't tell real from fake or right from wrong or make sound decisions then you absolutely should be adjudicated in a court of law as mentally incompetent/ill and that information should be passed on to NICS as a disqualifying condition.

a reply to: kwakakev

I disagree. I find no such statement or act that the son cannot handle a firearm responsibility.

You're kidding right?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In a heated situation, he would shoot before thinking.

He wouldn't consider the consequences of pulling the trigger...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I seriously wish it was that easy. Asperger's just doesn't work that way.

I was a weapons safety guy in the USAF. I am an expert shooter, and instructor.

He simply doesn't have the emotional maturity, in my opinion.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I truly love the kid. I am SO afraid that he is going to end up in trouble. He has a good heart, but he tends to live in his own little fantasy world. I'm afraid that someone will be hurt. My wife is, as well.

This whole thread is replete with examples from the OP illustrating the exact opposite of what you just said.

Come to terms with that first. I'm not bothering with the rest of your post.

a reply to: projectvxn

It is not my kid or decision. I don't have to come to terms with anything.

The poor guy that started this thread has come concerns and questions. i am just giving him something to think about.

In a heated situation, he would shoot before thinking. He wouldn't consider the consequences of pulling the trigger...

Does he consider the consequences before picking up a knife? Does he consider the consequences before punching some one in the face? Has he demonstrated any violent and unrestrained behaviour in the past?

These statements sounds like fears and concerns. Not actual incidents. He is 28, sounds like he has been babied his whole life and needs to grow up. Ok, he might be a little slow in some ways. does not mean he is a complete idiot without hope.

a reply to: kwakakev

I consider consequences every time I strap on my pistol, pick up my knife, or apply a technique to either a training partner or an assailant. Considering consequences is a requirement to being able to understand right from wrong.

Your arguments are nonsensical.

a reply to: projectvxn

I consider risk when I go out on the road. Does not mean I make it back in one piece. There are lots of risks everywhere. Risks of wearing a mask, risks of not wearing a mask. Take each situation on its own merits.

It is great to be aware of the risks, helps avoid a lot of pit falls. But with so many risks in this world we just freeze up and do nothing to truly account for them all.

a reply to: kwakakev

Cracking eggs to make an omllete isn't a valid argument with people's lives.

a reply to: projectvxn

Cracking eggs to make an omllete isn't a valid argument with people's lives.

I agree. All the kings horsemen and all the kings men could not put humpty dumpty back together again.

a reply to: madmac5150

A 13 year old is fully capable to operate breach load single shot shot gun. Is ha a large person able to handle a 12ga if not a 20 ga is a nice option. Take him rabbit hunting. At 13 I was using my fathers semi auto Browning 12ga hunting pheasants, although I started with a breach load over under 20ga .22 long rifle.

originally posted by: madmac5150
If any of you guys have any ideas... I'd love to hear them...

I couldn't get sleep very easily, as usual, so i contemplated your OP. Here is my 2 cents about this:

Since you and your wife are "in total agreement" i think it is better that you both go and sit down with your stepson. Then some serious talking begins. Forbid him to get a gun. Obviously, he is going to ask "why?" Then say because you and your wife think, that it is a safety risk.

Possible outcomes: 1) Stepson says "Okay, then" (unlikely scenario) 2) He says he is going to buy a gun anyway. Then try to reason with him, as he lives under your roof, it is your rules, and the rules your wife sets. If this doesn't work, take the official route and get some kind of a mark for him that his background check will not be accepted at the gun store. 3) Stepson leaves banging the doors shut behind him and no longer lives with you. Then it is a whole different ball game.

Not an easy situation. But he is going to get over it if you forbid him to get a gun. What is harder to overcome, is own death or serious injury, or death or serious injury of another person due to own actions.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: wheresthebody

What the OP should do is have his son legally adjudicated as mentally ill. That way he will never be able to purchase a firearm legally.

Agreed.

That's definitely the preferred and most responsible method to prevent him, if he is, in fact, Asperger and not in full possession of his faculties, in which case he should not be able to legally own or purchase a firearm.

originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: madmac5150
Before you do anything enroll him in a firearm safety course.

Not before enrolling him in a rug and telling him NO!

a reply to: MapOfNowhere

Self inficted shotgun deaths are very rare it would be a suicide. Has the step son ever tried to kill themselves then buy no means buy them a shot gun, a knife, a rope, or let them operate any power tool, gas stove, electrical outlets. Keep them locked in their room cut up their dinner steak not to big a pieces they might chock on it no glass drinking glass they could break the glass and cut their wrists./SARC

originally posted by: madmac5150

originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: madmac5150

His problem isn't a lack of instruction. His problem is that he truly believes Hollywood... THAT, is what scares the hell out of me. Like any teenager, he thinks if he straps on a gun he is both invincible, and infallible.

Well, teach him.

I would recommend getting a Ruger Mark III. It's specifically designed as a target pistol. It's a .22 caliber. It's kind of big, so not something you would carry around on your hip or concealed. You take him to the range for practice and safety instruction. You teach him to care for it and maintain it. People tend to have more respect for things they have to maintain.

It would be like getting a teenager an old Cadillac to restore. When they have to fix it themselves, they are more careful with it on the road.

I seriously wish it was that easy. Asperger's just doesn't work that way.

I was a weapons safety guy in the USAF. I am an expert shooter, and instructor.

He simply doesn't have the emotional maturity, in my opinion.

Time for you to have the man of the house talk with him then if he is not that emotionally mature ! and maybe buy him a air-rifle to placate him with baby steps .

I was brought up around guns as a kid here in the UK And leaning out of my bedroom window to shoot rabbits with a 12 bore or 4/10 even when i was in single digits of age was normal for me , i was always super careful with rifles and guns , still am but he is in your house , your rules and with your back ground you do know best on this one , give him some shooting practice buy only if you are involved


And for lolz i was always taught to spell it Dilemna when i was in school but now it is www.quickanddirtytips.com...

originally posted by: PapagiorgioCZ
a reply to: projectvxn

They could come with a diagnosis for you too if they wanted to. Be careful with that.
Let's say there is such thing as a mild autism - Asperger's syndrome. Let's call it in latin and people will buy it. Ok, from the definition he's intelligent but has issues with social interactions. It's a scam. It fits on half the population these days. As long as they dont feed him antidepressants making him clearly psychotic he has right to defend himself from let's say a mob of negroes kicking him to death for a cell phone. Maybe he should pass some test to prove he's able of reasonable decisions but then you could demand it from everyone.

OP is biased I'm telling you. Never-touch-the-trigger-guy. He came here for approval or alibi after he made his mind not for answers.

If that's the case the son needs to grow a pair of balls and move out of his parent's house.

If he wants to be an adult, and be a man, he needs to go out get a good paying job, live within his means, get his own place to live, kearn how to defend himself and his property, and then he won't have to worry about mommy and daddy telling him no.

a reply to: projectvxn

I believe adjudication as mentally defective is too extreme, based on what madmac has reported in this thread.

The stepson is high-functioning on the autism spectrum -- not psychotic, schizophrenic, or mentally retarded. He has no history of violence and no criminal record. In other words, he is developmentally-stunted, but that doesn't mean he always will be. It is possible that, with intervening years to mature, he will be able to exercise his right to own firearms.

Involving the psychiatric establishment or courts could do irreparable damage to an otherwise healthy family relationship, and any legal decisions might be impossible to reverse later on.

If various factors were worse, I'd agree with you, but I think madmac should first attempt to reason with his stepson.

a reply to: madmac5150

I'm on the Asperger spectrum but have had military training and I am fairly anti-gun. I believe that I could possibly defend myself unarmed, if it came down to it, but most times the better response is to get out of dangerous situations without drawing attention to oneself.

I've seen more people injured by their own weapons than anything else.

Honestly, take him target shooting and show him that you don't always hit the target.

Also get him to drill with a weapon and realize the inconvenience of the weight of it and the uselessness of carrying a weapon in normal situations.

Carrying a gun makes you a threat, and therefore, a target, too. It takes a real scum to shoot at someone who is clearly unarmed, but any scared idiot is likely to shoot first and ask questions later if you present a threat.