Association of American Physicians & Surgeons Sues the FDA over Restrictions on Hydroxychloroquine

a reply to: kwakakev

It took me a day to answer my own question. Here we go...



Maybe face panties will save you until there is a vaccine that is Bill Gates approved...

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Waterglass

"By preventing Americans' use of HCQ as a prophylaxis, the FDA is infringing on First Amendment rights to attend religious services or participate in political events such as political conventions, town halls, and rallies in an important election year."

Hmmmmm.... how about the right to LIFE??? How about the right to informed consent? How about the right to try? Why are the more concerned on the political hot topics than actually keeping their patients ALIVE to enjoy those First Amendments rights??? Call me cynical (or whatever), but it seems to me they are more interested in protecting their professional and/or political interests than the health and rights of the people.

I am very disturbed at this laser focus on one pharmaceutical -- no matter how effective -- that requires the expense of doctor's visits and a doctor's prescription, presumably after symptoms are present, and the inevitable adverse side effects for many who take it... while not a word is said about simple nutritional supplements like Zinc and Vitamins C and D3, easily obtained without any doctor's visits or prescriptions, minimal side effects, and maximum benefits. Anyone so motivated can go to Pubmed.com and search for the studies themselves; for example, "Vitamin D3 + antiviral." All three are known antivirals and known to be effective against ARDS (Acute respiratory distress syndrome) in and of themselves. All three alone can prevent severe symptoms and complications.

I am also concerned that the very high death rates initially will be blamed on the lack of chloroquine, rather than the insane Draconian measures imposed. We know that many patients were put on ventilators unnecessarily because health professionals were too cowardly to treat them properly with less invasive methods, such as CPAPs and BiPAPs. We also know that sick patients were turned away from doctors and hospitals until they were "turning blue". In other words, they were forsaken until they were on death's door. We also know that nursing homes were a freaking germ fest thanks to CoVid positive patients being locked in -- yes, LOCKED IN! -- with non CoVid patients... at least, they weren't CoVid positive.

I don't doubt that chloroquine has some positive benefits fighting CoVid. But I don't believe for a minute that it's the end-all-be-all. Nor do I believe that it's our best option, much less our only option.

Jeezuz....keep going dont stop drag them all along with you ASAP.

Why does it work?

What is it killing?

What are the combonation of drugs killing?Are they killing different things/bugs or are they killing different stages of the same thing/bug?

What are the natural food/plant based replacements for these pharma drugs?

What is the base molecule origin of the synthetic drugs that work?

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: kwakakev

The situation is already destroying the community, economy and lives with its response. if this is a real medial emergency then why all these restrictions and interference with a doctors determination?

You notice when you make a point with certain people on this site.
They just go away and never answer. Just rudely leave ya hang'n
wondering what in the hell is wrong with this guy. Some have been
here for years and never once have conceded an argument. Never
humble they're opinion or consider another view to be valid. Now I
know why.

THERE ONE OF THEM!

I can’t answer for everyone, but I know when I’ve gone back and forth with someone and the debate declines into hyperbole and, the ATS favorite, dumbass assumptions, I no longer feel the need to keep the debate going. I don’t know how many times I’ve been called a leftist or a libtard on here when I’m a registered libertarian. The assumption thing is such a lazy way to argue a point because it only exists to discredit the person you’re debating with, when they never even said that.

IE-

Poster A- “I don’t like Donald Trump”

Poster B- “Oh, so then you fully accept more taxes, tyranny, Marxism, anti-American ideals and killing babies?”

Post A- “No, I’m actually a conservative, I just do not think Trump’s way of handling things.”

Poster B- “And you call yourself an “American”. No one cares about anything you say. You and you’re ilk are the dirge of the US and willfully contribute to the fall of our great country.”

You see it in practically every “debate” here and frankly, they shouldn’t even be called debates because the amount of hyperbole and assumptions tossed around take away from the actual discussion. It’s the typical ‘attack the poster, not the message’ situation. While some may get a kick out of that, I know I’ve seen a few here state that they just like arguing or “triggering libtards”, I don’t see it as beneficial in any kind of way and is a microcosm for the problems this country is having right now with no one really listening to anyone, just wanting to incite contempt and literary aggression.

So if you find people not responding to your posts after you’ve gone back and forth, go back and read your posts and see how many times you’ve relied on hyperbole and assumptions as a way to make your point. (I don’t mean “you” as in you, carsforkids, just in general)

a reply to: one4all

You'll have to be far more specific if you want actual answers...

And if you're going to be far more more specific, you'll have to be far less snarky...

And in that case, you can go to Pubmed.com and you'll find all the answers you want.

a reply to: Drucifer

You notice when you make a point with certain people on this site. They just go away and never answer. Just rudely leave ya hang'n wondering what in the hell is wrong with this guy. Some have been here for years and never once have conceded an argument. Never humble they're opinion or consider another view to be valid. Now I know why.

If one cannot respond to a question in a debate, then the point is usually stands. They don't know or cannot say, just accept it and move on. It can be motivating to dig deeper into a topic and look at other pieces of the puzzle.

Can be frustrating as well, there is no obligation for you to say anything. Just try and stick to the facts and keep the personal attacks out of it.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: one4all

You'll have to be far more specific if you want actual answers...

And if you're going to be far more more specific, you'll have to be far less snarky...

And in that case, you can go to Pubmed.com and you'll find all the answers you want.

I have the answers already....its you who are just starting to clue in and trust me you are far from middleground yet.....you are only just beginning to learn.

Snarky huh?....lol..I just know what you dont and im sick of listening to People like you who finally tune in and act like they are Messengers of THE WORD.....just relax ok... all the stuff you are learning comes from bastardized research and needs to be sorted out still.Most of the baseline research is still questionable.

I have the answers to my earlier questions obviously you missed some good points and I am encouraging you to revisit them....encourage....get it?

So do you have answers or not?

I do,if you dont just say so and let others research for themselves....do you have answers?

a reply to: one4all

I'm honestly not even sure what you are asking... that's what happens when snark gets the upper hand. I could go a dozen different directions with what you've been saying.

And you have no idea what I know and what I don't know, much less how long I've known it. At best, you know what I've chosen to state and discuss on this forum, with a very wide and diverse membership.

If you're really so sick of listening to People like me who finally tune in and act like they are Messengers of THE WORD," then school me. What am I missing? What are we all missing?

originally posted by: rickymouse
Some People at the top of the FDA have their hands in the donation basket of the Pharma companies. Hydroxychloraquine is too cheap. Same with Heparin vs remdesivir.....Heparin from seaweeds works better at thirty bucks than remdesivir at three thousand bucks. Less side effects too.

^this^

I can personally attest to this, I was fed SSRI's by the doctors, when I asked for something that wasn't nightmare fuel-like valium-I even put the SSRI's in front in front of him and said and I quote verbatim "it works better than that crap" so he prescribed the same drug.

From the same drug company. Coincidence?

Most doctors are now big pharma lap dogs, it's clear to everyone, this is why Trumps medical advice should be ignored, the "advice" he could have endangered lives by the faulty advice from the shills who know more about bonuses than health and wellbeing.

Nothing in regards the kooks in your Original Post.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Kooks? So here we are day +1 and an attempt was made to derail. So within 24 hours of this thread here on ATS the Chief of the FDA is interviewed and he says that "

FDA chief: Hydroxychloroquine use a decision between doctor and patient

Stephen Hahn, the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), on Thursday declined to take a definitive stance on whether people should take hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for the coronavirus, instead saying that decision should be made between a doctor and a patient.

What say you?

Oh, and yes I do pray to God, several uncles, my father and father in law.

a reply to: Waterglass

What does the FDA head have to do with the creationist kooks in your Original Post? He seems to be agreeing with me, you wanna chug the Quine? Go see your doctor. I hope anyone who wants it does and then drinks a bucket of it.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I used to drink Qunine water as a kind as our parents used it for cocktails. Here's were you can read all about it

Quinine in Tonic Water: What Is It and Is It Safe?

Quinine, when found in small doses in tonic water, is safe to consume. The first tonic waters contained powdered quinine, sugar, and soda water. Tonic water has since become a common mixer with liquor, the most well-known combination being gin and tonic. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) allows tonic water to contain no more than 83 parts per million of quinine, because there can be side effects from quinine.

Quinine is still in tonic water, which is consumed around the world as a popular mixer with spirits, such as gin and vodka. It’s a bitter beverage, though some manufacturers have tried to soften the taste a little with added sugars and other flavors.

Try some.

originally posted by: carsforkids

And on top of everything else I'm supposed to just be a complete dumb ass.
And not notice what all this looks like? Well excuse the holy F^%&$ out of
me. But I respectfully refuse to stand still and not dodge the sickle.

I said this a couple of times...The key is to keep people off ventilators since there is about a 90% chance you will die once on one. Early on in the pandemic with the many dead in the states with high death counts, and other places around the world, were due to using ventilators as the best form of fighting this flu and it was basically killing people. Since then the death rates have dropped over 75% due to practices to KEEP people off ventilator, one is to put people on their stomach that helps to keep their lungs clear and avoids the need for a ventilator. Small amounts of HCQ in a stack of other vitamins and minerals EARLY in the symptoms shows to reduce the time and level of the sickness to KEEP PEOPLE OFF VENTILATORS TOO. It is that simple, not something to debate...If results look good in this area and side effects are less than taking two aspirins..why not....Keep doing it, further build the data...

Back to putting people on their stomach...WHERE IS THE SCIENTIFIC STUDY!! I guess there isn't, and so we need to stop this practice until they can do a double blind study and repeat the result a number of times... GET GRANDMA OFF HER GOD DAMN BELLY!! YOU ARE KILLING HER!!

See how that works...lol

originally posted by: Waterglass
I used to drink Qunine water as a kind as our parents used it for cocktails.

Good for you, now have it in a much stronger concentration.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: one4all

I'm honestly not even sure what you are asking... that's what happens when snark gets the upper hand. I could go a dozen different directions with what you've been saying.

And you have no idea what I know and what I don't know, much less how long I've known it. At best, you know what I've chosen to state and discuss on this forum, with a very wide and diverse membership.

If you're really so sick of listening to People like me who finally tune in and act like they are Messengers of THE WORD," then school me. What am I missing? What are we all missing?

Jeepers...just eat the snarky comment instead of defending it ...already....I believe you are on task so keep going....why did you think I asked you questions ? So YOU could answer with in-depth data and links and carry forward your great discourse.

Screw "touchy" oK? Screw "PC" ok? Screw status quo civility that is designed by proxy to derail fact finding.Those things get us nowhere they do not give us traction.

"School you"?...ok.

When you already have the answers you can write the exam.
I gave you pertinent questions.

What are you all missing?

Facts that go above and beyond bastardized peer approved published studies and resources....reality based facts not language based facts.

You are missing the obvious because you have been trained/brainwashed to do so.

Obviously the "peer approved proof" is not finding the answers or the solutions....so by PROXY those methods are not usable nor relevant anymore......this means unless you have an anchor point you are lost.....OTHERS not ME..... I can explain and fit into my Template ALL research data you may find anywhere and my Template roots out the lies by process.....when there is conflict in the data my Template seperates the Chaffe from the Wheat.Its an algorithm driven autonomous process.

By Template I mean " the answer".

So answer my questions please so we can take this further or not and I shall let it be.

a reply to: one4all

I don't know if you're just too clever by half... or if a little knowledge is dangerous. You seem to think there's only one right answer to your cryptic comments. There isn't. I can still take it a dozen different directions, and I could easily provide citations and references where appropriate, which I have neither the time nor inclination to do.

If you have something to discuss, then spell it out for me. I'm not playing your games or jumping through your hoops or asking "how high" when you say "jump!"

a reply to: Boadicea


What I am hammering away at with zero results is this.....the CAUSALITY.....why certain treatments or more specificlly COMBONATIONS of treatments work....its less about the specific treatments and more about what they are really targetting here.....there are MANY treatments that will work.....however no matter which one it must fit into the causality loop.....if it works it must by proxy fit.

We can take a Wheelbarrow full of "remedys" and we can show the exact reasons people support them....we can also show the massive efforts to screw with these things so the consumer cannot realise the benefits.

Covid is more than what we are told....much more...I am not saying anything more simply because last week I recieved an anonymous untracable phone call a few hours before my car was torched....... figure it out yourself....and dont get touchy with me....I am still missing my car.....and I am taking the hint....so do your own homework you wont hear another squeak from me about this.

Hint....an immediate blood transfusion then supporting the bodies filtering processes and replacing key minerals/vitamins WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY treating the stomach for bad gut bacteria is key to avoiding the ventilator....the bloodstream is to polluted to normally allow the body to function...forcing the lungs to work forces everything to work when it is already maxed out...the bloodstream is being ACTIVELY POLLUTED(by a live bacteria camoflaged in viral size) from inside of that closed system.....you cannot use a ventilator until you have cleaned the blood.....or all you do is pump the poison and traumatize all systems when the body is trying to stop the poison.....the body and blood cannot facillitate the production and use of o2 when the bloodstream is uber-polluted and the pollution is active and ongoing.....either you kill what is actively poisoning the blood or you replace the blood with clean filtered blood....then you will not need the Ventilator.

Trudeau in Deep Trouble, Ohio Reverses Decision, Trump Tweets Out Pizza & St. James, RBG Update


For some good news at 11 minutes, the Ohio governor Mike DeWine has reversed the decision to block HCQ prescriptions for treatment of covid.

originally posted by: Waterglass
So, old news? Correct! That's why I put it up today so all can read the tea leaves and judge it for what it is. No one else here put it out there. Especially after a "gentile" reporter from CNN wrote a piece trashing a group of First Line Doctors whom held a press conference several days ago on the steps of the Supreme Court. Their viral videos were banned by the trusted sources of social media such as Facebook, YouTube, Twitter. They aren't the only group being banned or simply not being discussed. Read on.

So why doesn't the White House talk about the Association of American Physicians & Surgeons lawsuit on ban of Hydroxychloroquine? Why doesn't the White House talk about SEMOS findings on Hydroxychloroquine?

Here's the CNN piece to discredit the President. Do we have a Julius Caesar on deck surrounded by assassins?

Trump walks out of briefing after CNN question about hydroxychloroquine


Association of American Physicians & Surgeons

"It is shocking that medical workers in Brazil will have access to HCQ as a prophylaxis while Americans are blocked by the FDA from accessing the same medication for the same use," observes AAPS Executive Director Jane Orient, M.D. "There is no legal or factual basis for the FDA to limit use of HCQ," states AAPS General Counsel Andrew Schlafly. "The FDA's restrictions on HCQ for Americans are completely indefensible in court." Many foreign nations, including China, India, South Korea, Costa Rica, United Arab Emirates, and Turkey, use HCQ for early treatment and prevention of COVID-19, AAPS points out. "Entrenched, politically biased officials at the FDA should not be allowed to interfere with Americans' right to access medication donated to the federal government for public use," Schlafly says. "By preventing Americans' use of HCQ as a prophylaxis, the FDA is infringing on First Amendment rights to attend religious services or participate in political events such as political conventions, town halls, and rallies in an important election year."

SERMO is as SERMO does:

SERMO

So ATS, Why, why, why?

F-ing check your sources:

AAPS has been called the Tea Party’s favorite doctors, but it’s actually a more fitting health-care group for the Trump era. As Trump has contributed to sowing doubt about the scientific consensus, AAPS is seizing the moment. The group just wants to make health care great again—even if that means tearing it apart.

AAPS was founded in 1943 in opposition to an early effort to provide universal health care to Americans.

t first shot to fame half a century later, when it sued then–first lady Hillary Clinton to gain access to the records of her Task Force on National Health Care Reform. (Though the Clinton administration was initially ordered to pay AAPS’s lawyer fees and other costs, eventually a federal appeals court ruled in its favor.)

www.theatlantic.com...#:~:text=AAPS%20was%20founded%20in%201943,on%20National%20 Health%20Care%20Reform.

Overall, we rate the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) an extreme right Questionable source based on the promotion of quackery level pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, use of poor sources, a lack of transparency with funding as well as numerous false claims and failed fact checks.

mediabiasfactcheck.com...

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Waterglass

I hope anyone who wants it does and then drinks a bucket of it.

Actually taking a small dose for a few days with zinc is the key.

With our children going back to school, one would hope we could put politics aside and use a safe effective treatment in the early stages of the virus so you never see the vent.

How a false narrative was created

Treatment cut death rate significantly

Oxford - early outpatient treatment

"These medications need to be widely available and promoted immediately for physicians to prescribe."

"All three trials above that used toxic hydroxychloroquine doses — Recovery, Solidarity and REMAP — also failed to include zinc, which appears to be a key factor. As noted by Zelenko above, the hydroxychloroquine is really only used to drive the zinc in to the cells. Nass observes"

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
Actually taking a small dose for a few days with zinc is the key.

If you say so Dr. Internet Person.

When I want medical advice I don't come to ATS.