Skeptics are now trashing Astrophysicist Eric Davis because he talked about UFO's

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

originally posted by: RMFX1
What the hell is a pseudo sceptic?

I have no idea. It's the OP's own creation, and he has inflicted it upon ATS for a long time now (or rather those who have the temerity to disagree with his opinion).

Basically, the OP has a DESPERATE desire to drink the snake-oil being sold by the likes of Eric Davis and his circus of performing clowns, and woe betide those who'd rather have a good pint and a decent, balanced conversation instead.

The NYT 'update' is nothing more than the age-old game of twisting words into alternative meanings to excite the easily pleased. Mission accomplished, it seems.

Aren;t you tired of being wrong....?

You and MM have been completely WRONG about AATIP and Big Lue from day one.

When will you come to your senses ?

a reply to: ColdWisdom

The government tends to have habit, a pattern of behavior, whereby they exploit the public‘s interest in UFOs in order to justify their request for more funding.

So if I read this correctly you believe it's real but you oppose the way the government deals with this matter how they obtain tax funding to legitimate their research into this?

a reply to: 0bserver1

What research?

a reply to: ColdWisdom

Well, the research into the arial phenomena the most of us call UFOs?

There is still a chance that someone hired this guy and his credentials to make the story more believable.

And some people at the pentagon are laughing their asses off , cheering and celebrating the succes of the PSYOPS.

Paranoid ? maybe , but at this point im not sure what to believe.

Project bluebook investigated hundreds if not thousands of cases , they concluded it was nothing.

People lying or high on Acid , swamp gas at best.

And now they are suppose to be real , like they appeared overnight ?

It does not matter what they tell us , if they have been lying about this subject for more then half a century how can you be sure they are telling the truth right now ?

I like Eric Davis, and I believe some of what he says has merit.

But he does still push the MJ12 docs, and that for me is a bit of a red flag. It certainly doesn't do his credibility any Fravor's.

(see what i did there - it was an autocorrect to good to correct 😀)

It's funny hearing people talk about credibility but this is all they have. They can't refute his research . I just got through reading another one of his papers and it was brilliant. I can see why he won awards for his papers and was hired to consult the Pentagon on these matters.

The argument from pseudoskeptics goes like this:

Eric Davis has a quirky idea on this subject so therefore I need to question his credibility. See how illogical that is? They can't refute what he's saying so they take one or two things and say you need to question his credibility. In other words, stop thinking about all of the great work he's done or don't read his papers because they can't refute any of those things.

It's illogical pseudoskepticism 101.

Here's an example.

My Brother's girlfriend is a Professor at a local College and she teaches Mathematics. She's also a big believer in Bigfoot. She loves any monster hunting shows and I don't agree with her on some things and we have fun debates on the subject.

Now, because she believes that Bigfoot is real and likes monster hunting shows, does this mean I should call up the College she's worked at for years and say she has no credibility and all of the great work she has done for your school should be totally erased and she should be fired!

I think the days of people listening to pseudoskeptic nonsense is over. Here's an abstract of the great paper I recently read:

Teleportation Physics Study

Abstract
This study was tasked with the purpose of collecting information describing the teleportation of material objects, providing a description of teleportation as it occurs in physics, its theoretical and experimental status, and a projection of potential applications. The study also consisted of a search for teleportation phenomena occurring naturally or under laboratory conditions that can be assembled into a model describing the conditions required to accomplish the transfer of objects. This included a review and documentation of quantum teleportation, its theoretical basis, technological development, and its potential applications. The characteristics of teleportation were defined and physical theories were evaluated in terms of their ability to completely describe the phenomena. Contemporary physics, as well as theories that presently challenge the current physics paradigm were investigated. The author identified and proposed two unique physics models for teleportation that are based on the manipulation of either the general relativistic spacetime metric or the spacetime vacuum electromagnetic (zero-point fluctuations) parameters. Naturally occurring anomalous teleportation phenomena that were previously studied by the United States and foreign governments were also documented in the study and are reviewed in the report. The author proposes an additional model for teleportation that is based on a combination of the experimental results from the previous government studies and advanced physics concepts. Numerous recommendations outlining proposals for further theoretical and experimental studies are given in the report. The report also includes an extensive teleportation bibliography.

www.researchgate.net...

I have to say, I didn't know who he was before but I will follow his work now. He's working on some high level physics and people need to realize part of his job is to look at these diferrent phenomena and then write about how they can be real in terms of physics. Again:

This study was tasked with the purpose of collecting information describing the teleportation of material objects, providing a description of teleportation as it occurs in physics, its theoretical and experimental status, and a projection of potential applications.

He was tasked to look at future applications of teleportation in a serious way and without ridicule.

We need more scientist like this who look at things openly without ridicule. What you hear from illogical pseudoskeptics adds nothing to the debate. Just read their comments in this thread and they don't offer evidence to support anything they're saying or to refute anything that's being said.

For instance, there's overwhelming evidence remote viewing is real. Here's a thread I did on it awhile ago.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here's some of the highlights:

Here's Jessica Utts talking about this. First let me tell you about Utts.

Jessica Utts is Professor and Chair of Statistics at the University of California – Irvine. She is a Fellow of the American Statistical Association and a recipient of a Founders Award from ASA. She has been elected as President of ASA for the year 2016.

She's one of the top Statistician's in the Country. Here's the video of Dr. Utts



Here's more from Utts:

Using the standards applied to any other area of science, it is concluded that psychic functioning has been well established. The statistical results of the studies examined are far beyond what is expected by chance. Arguments that these results could be due to methodological flaws in the experiments are soundly refuted. Effects of similar magnitude to those found in government-sponsored research at SRI and SAIC have been replicated at a number of laboratories across the world. Such consistency cannot be readily explained by claims of flaws or fraud.

www.ics.uci.edu...

This isn't illogical pseudoskeptic babble. These are scientist who are looking at these things with an open mind and finding evidence.

What Utts and others have shown is that there's an effect size greater than chance that's occuring in test that deal with remote viewing and other psychic abilities.

In some cases, this effect size is bigger than the effect size that says asoirin can prevent a second heart attack. When I say an effect size, I'm saying you have a baseline or control group that's expected to test at the levels near chance but when you test remote viewers or psychic functioning you get an effect that's greater than chance.

Also, when creative types seem to test even higher. These are people like artists, musicians, poets and more. This suggests that you can cut yourself off from using these abilities by overthinking things. One of the reasons Einstein became Einstein is because he relied heavily on intuition and imagination instead of just the knowledge he learn in class. He said:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution."

Pseudoskeptic are stuck in the quicksand of illogical thinking. They make an excuse not to accept any information beforehand.

So if the Government says something about research in these areas, it's only about funding so they don't have to think about the actual research that's being done.

All pilots are unreliable eyewitnesses and people lie and make things up so somehow this means all people lie and make things up, so they don't have to think.

When Edgar Mitchell came out talking about U.F.O.'s he went from this hero Astronaut to a senile old man in less than 60 seconds. This way they can bury their heads in the sand and not think about what's being said.

If we had more scientist like Davis and Utts and gave them some good funding , we would make even more progress in these areas.

a reply to: TheGreazel

At this point it becomes whom do we believe in this day and age and what information about the subject as well. It is interesting to note about the FBI's illegal operation and creation of what would come to be known as COINTELPRO. Originally created to infiltrate various American political organizations from 1956-1979. They allegedly still, "operate" to this day, including discrediting through PSYOPs, harassment, false imprisonments, planting false reports in the media and in some cases possible assassination all in the name of supposed, "National Security" and other motives to protect the US. That is just touching the tip of the iceberg on methods they'd employ to tarnish and crush opposing parties it deemed against national security.

It isn't hard to believe these clandestine operations weren't then carried over to discredit the UFO movement at large. Infiltrating various organizations and planting a sleuth of PSYOPs to wreck havoc in the UFO community.
Think of the best way to hide the truth from curious minds, the truth of us possibly not being the only intelligent beings in the universe and having possible visitors from other worlds acting with our own governments. Although the later would be a bigger stretch but wouldn't be within the realm of the impossible. If It were up to me to keep the people and even the many within the government in the dark, I would most definitely use the COINTELPRO methods the FBI used to infiltrate the various organizations that they dimmed hostile to the government and society at large.

I believe it is the very reason we are all confused as hell about UFOs because as soon as we try to seek out the truth we are met with a variety of obstacles such as so much false information, ludicrous at times and even downright misleading. The best possible methods are even planting some truthful information with cogent statements yet false to misguide the public at large. Think of it like if 80% of the information out there is false with about 20% being truthful. With those odds who can really separate the wheat and the chaff completely? It makes everything on the subject confusing as hell to the point of just downright labeling anything UFO related as completely asinine.

With all that aside we can now take a look at project blue book. We can look at it's creation and purpose in two main possible alternatives.

For one that everything or close to everything contained within it are true and was honestly compiled with the best intentions and knowledge known or unknown at the time. It would then deem a vast majority of it as explainable, no threat to national security with no evidence that any of it was outer worldly. Although a small majority would remain unexplainable even to this day with heavy scrutiny, it wouldn't have much bearing on it's eventual outcome.

The Second Option being that it was compiled using a mixture of some truthful information and a lot of misguided and possible downright false information to mislead the public and many of those within the government. This option would innately entail that there are nefarious reasons they would falsify a lot of information given within PBB. There would be no reason to misguide all of us if there weren't some truth in the UFO phenomena.

Like anything I think Project Blue Book is a mixture of option 1 and 2. If anything i'd lean towards 1 but remember the small percentage of cases and evidence that would remain unexplainable even to this day. Even that evidence isn't refutable with ease with the possible scenario we are being visited by other worldly entities.

At this point I think it's best to be skeptical about everything but know that if COINTELPRO is being used in the UFO community, at what point and why? I think time will tell.

a reply to: neoholographic

I don't know that much about Eric Davis, but I do know one of Steven Greer's main talking points in all of his presentations and interviews is stories of him briefing top level US defense officials, politicians, and IIRC even President Clinton.

I can't really get that excited about alleged civilian briefings given to Pentagon or DoD or anyone in the US government. If Greer was making this play back in the 90's, and we're still not any closer to disclosure, then I'm of the opinion that this strategy isn't going to work.

This is not the direction of information flow (civilian researchers briefing DoD) that is compelling. We need the information to flow FROM top level US defense officials TO civilians and the public, not the inverse, for this to start getting interesting, IMHO.

What I find amusing is the believers just can’t accept there are skeptics. They just can’t “believe” and be happy with that. It’s like they need the skeptics to convert for their belief to be valid.

The skeptics are not upset that the believers believe. We’re just “skeptical”.

If the believers would just “believe” and not worry when the skeptics are skeptical, they’d enjoy their believing much more.

The press openly and widely shared govt comments about “off world vehicles”. The public didn’t even flinch. If there were things to “fully disclose” it’s clear it’s being suppressed for other reasons than fear of how the public would react.

They’re flying all over. Crashing all over. Being collected all over. If it’s truly ET then just show everything. You don’t have to give up the tech advances gleaned. Just proof of “off world” tech existing. Much less a body, lol.

I’ll remain skeptical. That doesn’t mean I’m bothered one bit by the believers.

I just dont understand the remaining skeptics point of view on this.

For the last 70 years theres been rumors and rumblings of UFO coverups by our own government. They constantly denied it despite files upon files upon memos upon programs dedicated to the subject for the last 70 years. Its been right in our faces...

And skeptics have said, if it was real they would let us know...

And those of us who have accepted the evidence as irrefutable, have been persistent that the reports, and programs, and memos were all real evidence... and that the denials were BS..

Low and behold, finally younger.. newer generations of government and scientists with open minds are in control... and the efforts of a persistent few... combined with leaks and testimony of military pilots have brought the programs hidden in the shadows to the forefront and exposed them to the point where they cant hide it anymore...

They, the government, the pentagon, finally admit they have craft and/or materials that are from another world... due to the pressure put on them by activists, congress, and angry generals wondering why they havent had knowledge/access to these programs...

The doors are finally blown open.. unwillingly...

And you all are now saying that the governments word is no longer good.

The 70 years worth of memos, reports, programs... now combined with the Pentagon saying its true...

Is still not enough.

I just dont get it.

Its like you people believe that extraterrestrials making there way here is impossible, and youre willing to believe anything but that.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

1) I do think it’s impossible for ET to be visiting us due to expansive distances but more importantly the “time” it would take to travel.

2) I’d be thrilled if an ET craft(s) had been recovered and would welcome whatever advances it may lead to.

3) I’m 100% ok with your full and complete belief and acceptance. If I’m not there yet, why the angst? Just let me be skeptical.

a reply to: PilSungMtnMan

See I respect the way you approach it at least.

I can see it if as you put it.. "Im just not there yet' and its cool you're okay with my acceptance.

If we were in person.. wed be shaking hands right now.

Eric Davis told Joe Murigia

.. Lazar worked as a radiation health monitor in the unsecured logistics contractor facility outside of Area-51, so he was never inside that site, and he never held security clearances because he didn’t need them to work in an unclassified area. Lazar made up his entire cockamamie story about the UFO that he saw in a building inside Area-51. He was never exposed to any classified information, facilities, or programs in his work area.

Source

I guess we should all believe that with as much faith as his claims about "off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”

ANOTHER BREAKING NEWS FROM THE NYT!!!!!!!!!!!!






Rejoice !!! Rejoice!!!

Current officials are now concerned about the potential threat represented by the very real, advanced technological objects: how close they can come to our fighter jets, sometimes causing a near miss, and the risk that our adversaries may acquire the technology demonstrated by the objects before we do.

www.nytimes.com...

originally posted by: celltypespecific
ANOTHER BREAKING NEWS FROM THE NYT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rejoice !!! Rejoice!!!

Current officials are now concerned about the potential threat represented by the very real, advanced technological objects: how close they can come to our fighter jets, sometimes causing a near miss, and the risk that our adversaries may acquire the technology demonstrated by the objects before we do.

www.nytimes.com...

Good find!

Notice how pseudoskeptic have covered themselves in a shield of ignorance.

They said for years on this board and others if the Govt. denies it then it's just conspiracy theorist and wishful thinking. Now the Govt. is talking about these things, it's you can't trust the Govt. and every Scientist who talks about these things is always not credible so they don't have to think or do any research.

The days of this type of ignorance is coming to an end. As the NYT article says it's not about belief.

We’re often asked by well-meaning associates and readers, “Do you believe in U.F.O.s?” The question sets us aback as being inappropriately personal. Times reporters are particularly averse to revealing opinions that could imply possible reporting bias.

But in this case we have no problem responding, “No, we don’t believe in U.F.O.s.”

As we see it, their existence, or nonexistence, is not a matter of belief.

www.nytimes.com...

WOW!

Myself and others have been saying this for years on this board and it's pretty satisfying see it said in the NYT. They then gave a quote from anthropologist Margaret Mead.

“Belief has to do with matters of faith; it has nothing to do with the kind of knowledge that is based on scientific inquiry. … Do people believe in the sun or the moon, or the changing seasons, or the chairs they’re sitting on? When we want to understand something strange, something previously unknown to anyone, we have to begin with an entirely different set of questions. What is it? How does it work?”

The days of people accepting knee jerk, illogical pseudoskepticism is over.

Here's what the NY TImes claimed

Mr. Davis said he also gave classified briefings on retrievals of unexplained objects to staff members of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Oct. 21, 2019, and to staff members of the Senate Intelligence Committee two days later.

Committee staff members did not respond to requests for comment on the issue.

No Longer in Shadows, Pentagon’s U.F.O. Unit Will Make Some Findings Public

The problem is that the official record does not back up this claim. Something the journalists did not mention.

There isn't any record of Senate Armed Service Committee Hearings on Mon Oct 21st 2019.



Source : Committee on Armed Services Hearings and Archived Link

There were no No SSCI Meetings two days later on Wed 23rd Oct 2019. [The record confirms all CLOSED hearings].



Source : www.intelligence.senate.gov... and Archived Link

a reply to: mirageman

Where did Davis say he briefed Members at a hearing? Did you read what you copied and pasted? It says this.

Mr. Davis said he also gave classified briefings on retrievals of unexplained objects to staff members of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Oct. 21, 2019, and to staff members of the Senate Intelligence Committee two days later.

He gave a briefing to staff members. You don't hold a hearing to give a classified briefing to staff members.

You pseudoskeptics are so predictable. You can't debate the substance of what he's saying or his brilliant research so all you have done is try to attack his credibility. Do you pseudoskeptics think people are that stupid?

People on ATS are familiar with the same sorry tactics from the same pseudoskeptics in every thread.

Eric Davis is published in respected Journals, won awards for his papers and consulted the Pentagon on these matters and you and your pseudoskeptic bretheren want to quibble about a hearing that he never said took place. He said it was a classified meeting with staff. That's not the point though. The fact you're taking the time to search committee hearings is just asinine. Did you hear what he said?

Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon UFO program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves.”

AND YOU WANT TO QUIBBLE ABOUT COMMITTEE MEETINGS?? REALLY??

Again, do you think people are so stupid they will say, I'm just going to discount everything he says because mirageman posted Senate Committe Hearings om ATS?

You pseudoskeptics are ridiculous. The man is talking about materials that we couldn't make ourselves and “off-world vehicles not made on this earth” and you think people care that you don't know the difference between committee hearings and meeting with staff?

Look at some of the papers Davis wrote or contributed on.

Curvature Invariants for Lorentzian Traversable Wormholes

On Extracting Energy from the Quantum Vacuum

Testing a Quantum Inequality with a Meta-analysis of Data for Squeezed Light

Interstellar Travel by Means of Wormhole Induction Propulsion (WHIP)

www.researchgate.net...

Do you think people are so stupid that they will discount this groundbreaking news from a credible Astrophysicist and others because you post a schedule for Committee hearings? You and your pseudoskeptic bretheren do the same thing in each thread. Instead of debating the substance of what's being said you Google around the internet trying to find anything to avoid using your brain and actually debating the issues because you just want to bury your head in the sand and not think when it comes to these things.

a reply to: neoholographic


Credible astrophysicist? Lol

a reply to: neoholographic

Negative Nancies always need something to be mad about, even if the information has zero impact on their daily lives.