The Pantheon of Greco-Roman Gods was real, they were the original divine council of YHWH.

God as described in the Old Testament as El Elyon (the Most High) literally had His own divine council - other divine beings, the Elohim, who were assigned to rule over the nations, with whom He held court routinely, until corruption became their downfall. In Psalm 82 they are judged for their corruption, their misrule on Earth - but the conclusion that the Great Assembly truly existed, that God held court in the Heavens shouldn't surprise us (& yet it does!) Many will claim that the Heavenly Court was a bunch of angels - but angels are messengers; divine beings are the administrators, they had a higher status, and were described literally, as gods. They were, or became, the ancient gods we know from the Greek & Roman pantheons, though their true status was that they had been judged for their corruption, as in the following psalm:

Psalm 82

God presides in the great assembly;
he renders judgment among the gods:

“How long will you defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?

Defend the weak and the fatherless;
uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.

Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

“The gods know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

“I said, ‘You are gods;
you are all sons of the Most High.’

But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”

Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.

You can see that these gods were assigned to rule over the nations. In that stance they had been spiritual beings who could become corporeal at will - but their judgment showed that they would lose their spiritual power, becoming subject to death, finding a place which became Hell after they passed over, the land of the dead, the underworld, from which they sought to escape by grabbing & entering humans, to avoid the pull of the Abyss. It must be assumed that Lucifer was the head of the rebellion in the heavens, after Azazel & the 200 Watcher angels pledged to him from those charged to look after Earth & her inhabitants came down to Earth on Mount Hermon, committing multiple acts of 'infamy' with the human females.

At the least, it would seem that perhaps Lucifer took over the rebellion of Azazel & his crew (the details are murky) & led a war in Heaven against the Host led by the archangel Michael - whom, it is said, was merely the first to refuse to follow Lucifer when he was calling other spiritual beings to join his army. For the choice to resist Lucifer when others around him were not, Michael was anointed by God as the Captain who fought with the Host under his command for the duration. What is more murky is how the higher beings got involved in all this, as one would assume that they would have had the wisdom to foresee the outcomes of their rebellion.. In the book of Jude, we can perhaps see that some of the highest rebels were cast down to a pit, bound in chains until the End of Days, the final judgment:

JUDE 6:

And I remind you of the angels who did not stay within the limits of authority God gave them but left the place where they belonged. God has kept them securely chained in prisons of darkness, waiting for the great day of judgment.

This seems a different fate to those spirits which became wanderers in the cosmos, free to inhabit the bodies of humans & even animals where necessary, for reasons we can only guess at). My thought is that there must be a sort of gravitational pull, like the gravity well of a black hole, where eventually a demonic would get sucked in, to what can be called 'the Abyss', which is a place dreaded by demon spirits of all stripes. My assumption is that they hang onto their place in the cosmos without falling into the Abyss, by a combination of entering humans (like grabbing a tree branch in a flooded river washing them along) & by absorbing the various energies given off by those humans who are untrained in managing their energy balance (which can be achieved by many simple forms of meditation, it doesn't need to be complicated or tied to a particular creed..)

I know that the highest aim of human occult practices (in the West) is to deveop one's energy balance, such that one can create a solar body, which can with stand the perils of the afterlife, enabling them to control theiir circumstances such as when & ehere to be reborn, or to inhabit some heaven. I don't think there's many who could live through that process with sufficient knowledge & power to control the outcomes, but there we go. Most cases? God directs the program of afterlife activities, and it is a good thing to be properly submitted to the will & purpose of the Most High..

So there you go! The ancient Greek & Roman pantheons existed 'for reals', they were the council of the Most High (El Elyon) & they themselves were denoted Elohim (though each would have had a personal name also). In some sense these rulers retained power over certain of the nations, whether by direct presence if they hadn't been harshly judged, or by thought/spirit projection from the depths of the underworld, after the fashion of Cthulu... Spooky thought? Real Talk..

Please feel free to share your thoughts. Thanks, FITO.

Ether everything in western mythology based on an ancient proto religion based on their environment an astronomy, or something really is F'in with us on a multitude of levels.

Yahweh is based off of Marduk, a how, for the most, an is similar to Zeus too, just he throws fireballs instead of lightning. All the while Gnostics Zeus could be ether an Archon(planet or ruler), while Yahweh would be Yaoboalth, while in Plato version, Zeus would be Yaoboalth.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

If you read the book "Cosmos" by Carl Sagan the first 100 pages will blow your mind...

a reply to: strongfp

Sagan can keep his thoughts to himself, as far as I'm concerned. I've read & seen several things about him & his opinions, and I remain nonplussed at the whole affair he was putting together & promoting consistently in a manner of personal grandstanding that was blinding if you stared too long at his self-inflicted glory.....

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Pretty much the premise of Branton's "The Omega File".

a reply to: Specimen88

The proto religion became a guided revelation rather than an inference from the basic observations which would have been naturally developed. When they got to a certain stage, the lights flashed bright & someone took Adam by the shoulder, describing what lay before him.. I believe there was a period of Lemurian development, decimated by the fall of the ancient gods, concurrently with the fall of Atlantis. The gods became as men, and died as any rulers would. Only then did the earth become silent, only then could man's heart be stilled. Further along, there was another revelation, another visitation. And so on, and so forth. A guiding hand to ensure that the people did not succumb to the darkness which lurked in the shadows.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Would you believe Jesus is basically Hades that decides which one goes to paradise an which one goes to hell?

Angel's are based off Daemons which used to be described as messengers or medium of sort between mortals an gods in classic mythology. Later it became synonymous an demonized with Demons, which if I'm not wrong, used to be Angel's who'd deliver things from which ever god they wanted I guess.

Hell, Daimon another name for Satan these days.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

He puts man before god(s), as it should be. Because man created the ideas, stories, and atrocities by the gods.

Thanks for the depth of thought. I'll wander through that for some time.

I've always felt that mythology had more reality to it than myth. I just never understood how it 'fit'. Each congregation of these 'gods' always seem to resemble other 'gods' in every civilization's belief system and I think that the reason something always felt missing or disjointed about it is that I've always started with the king, if you will, of all of these gods and thought him to possibly be another semblance of God himself. This is why, I feel, none of it fit in a way that made sense.

Now that you've brought this back to light, as I've read these passages and they've often stumped me, mostly because I was probably too young to understand at the time or it wasn't time for this flower to bud. Taking God out of the equation and looking at them as God's council, it all makes real sense. This puzzle becomes more clear in my mind - fitting nicely.

The kings of these 'gods' are not God after all. Now It's seemingly clear that these kings were simply Lucifer or Satan himself, as he was the 'general in command' for a lack of better understanding. At least the reason for all of their downfall.

I knew the angels were to watch over mankind and help them but many stepped outside of the rules and taught mankind to war, magic and all sorts of knowledge that there were not supposed to do. Perhaps mankind wasn't ready for that knowledge at the time and for good reason. It's like giving a child an AK and letting it loose among the world without guidance or understanding other than, "Just pull that trigger. You'll figure it out as you go".

I definitely have to ponder this a great deal more. It leads to so much more.

Thanks again!

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Really?
No really?
It’s a bit murky but interesting none the less...
Probably needs a little more flesh on the bones before I would make a comment of substance but, it’s a very intriguing concept

I think Gods plan was and is to have humanity as an equal ruler with Himself, so, the idea of “kings” kind of class system, not sure I agree with that.
If you look at the people God chose as kings, prophets, most of them were pretty hope
Ess when they started

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Close.


Technically, though the mystery babylon pantheos gods go by many names depending on what area of the world, they were actually the fallen Watcher angels who set themselves up as gods and played with humanity like toys.

originally posted by: FlyInTheOintment
(Oops, should have replied rather than quoted) Edited out for brevity.

These 'gods' are apparently going to die like mortals (i.e: they aren't immortals), and they are from among 'the nations' (i.e: they aren't Hebrew), they are ignorant (they know nothing), they are begotten of the true God (they were created), they walk around in the dark places of the Earth (they aren't heavenly beings) and they will be judged.

The traditional view is that these are/were angels who have fallen and who are pretending to be gods, lording over their ethnic charges (see the 'table of nations'/'song of Moses').

Reasoning things out, the problem with pantheons of gods is that with similar powers, they vie against each other. They are also subservient to the 'realm of the gods' where they have their being, which neccesarily holds or creates their existence, and the environment of which, overrides their supremacy.

Also, the issues of 'first cause' then remains unanswered if the non-intelligent, non-self-actuating, non-personal, realm of the gods must exist before any creative spark.

On the other hand, a monotheistic God can be absolute above all, even a realm of the gods, and if temporality and location is no limitaition, can exist outside of any constraint.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Man is far too imperfect to be a co-ruler. Far too stupid, glorified ape men.

The higher thinking ones are rare and rarer.

Could you imagine the sheer chaos and depravity that "educated" man would partake in if it wasn't afraid of imprisonment? Order would cease to exist except at the barrel of a rifle. Even then, chaos would have rifles too because order wouldn't be able to stop them from having them.

The "ten commandments" by the wayside. Truly "post-apocalyptic" in scenario. This from people brought up in public education with parents, at least one parent? For better or worse that typically taught them some basic morality.

Is morality learned or innate? If learned and discarded so easily even in adulthood, it couldn't be innate. Therefore, the predisposition of man is no different than animal because he is an animal; be it a highly evolved, intelligent animal.

Not a creation of God or aliens for a specific purpose on a speck in an ocean of the universe, so insignificant. Man created God, something about order containing chaos or taught morality for the greater good by the rare and rarer higher thinking ones that were of good conscience.

Conscience is learned too.

con·science
/ˈkän(t)SHəns/
noun
an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior.
"he had a guilty conscience about his desires"

Look at how it's spelled, con-science. Contradictory to science, doing something that would be beneficial to me but conscience says not to. That action could be killing, stealing, raping for example.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Michael Heiser wrote his disertaion on Psalm 82

www.thedivinecouncil.com...

a reply to: FlyingSquirrel

Gods plan is to “have” meaning, in the future when humanity is able to be responsible.
I wasn’t talking the immediate

a reply to: Raggedyman

I think humanity is ""responsible"" for quite a lot already.

Knowledge (gnoʹsis) is put in a very favorable light in the Christian Greek Scriptures. However, not all that men may call “knowledge” is to be sought, because philosophies and views exist that are “falsely called ‘knowledge.’” (1Ti 6:20)

E·piʹgno·sis, a strengthened form of gnoʹsis (e·piʹ, meaning “additional”), can often be seen from the context to mean “exact, accurate, or full knowledge.” Thus Paul wrote about some who were always learning (taking in knowledge) “yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge [“a real knowledge,” TC; “a personal knowledge,” Ro; “clear, full knowledge,” Da ftn] of truth.” (2Ti 3:6, 7)

In the first century, the apostle Paul sounded these warnings: “The inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons.” (1 Timothy 4:1) “For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

The truth concerning Psalm 82 and the use of the word ʼelo·himʹ (gods), in verse 1 and 6:

The Hebrew word ʼelo·himʹ (gods) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ʼElo·himʹ is the plural of ʼelohʹah (god). Sometimes this plural refers to a number of gods (Ge 31:30, 32; 35:2), but more often it is used as a plural of majesty, dignity, or excellence. ʼElo·himʹ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.
...
At Psalm 82:1, 6, ʼelo·himʹ is used of men, human judges in Israel. Jesus quoted from this Psalm at John 10:34, 35. They were gods in their capacity as representatives of and spokesmen for Jehovah. Similarly Moses was told that he was to serve as “God” to Aaron and to Pharaoh.​—Ex 4:16, ftn; 7:1.

Source: God (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1)

You may continue your demonstration to provide further evidence for the Bible's reliability regarding the issue of “false stories”, “teachings of demons” and philosophies and views that are “falsely called ‘knowledge’” now. In the process demonstrating to be amongst those who are “always learning (taking in knowledge) yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” Don't mind me.

a reply to: FlyingSquirrel

Man is too stupid to be co-ruler? Have you read much mythology? It seems that the gods just passed their stupidity down to us. Even the gods of sumerian legends, which so much of the judeo-Christian legends originated from had their petty wars that they used man as pawns in. Heck, I believe they have one story where they give the reason for wanting the gold on earth because they destroyed their planet's atmosphere in a war long before they looked to earth and its rich supply of gold.
My guess is that YHWH sits on a council with a god above him and there are infinite gods, infinite councils, and infinite creations.... infinate life, and God, all perfect, all knowing got bored with the monopoly of perfection and knowing everything and found a way to spice up his existence some.. by creating imperfect co-creators, of which you and I are one. God is now enjoying an infinite amount of surprises and finding out he wasnt all knowing after all as he experiences the infinite number of experiences of gods and creations in an infinite number of realities.... or, is that another god behind him???

a reply to: FlyingSquirrel

Or maybe man learned early on that stealing, raping, and killing wasnt that beneficial if on had to worry about it being done to them?

a reply to: dawnstar

If we did learn we seem to have forgotten.

Because our race has done little else but steal, rape, murder, and kill its way throughout recorded history.

And if we are honest, organized religious practice, in all its many shapes and guise, is directly responsible significant proportion of said stealing, raping, and killing.

Along with the bankers, kings, dictators, and other nefarious bastards that wish to remain at the top of the pyramid whilst keeping the rest of us all back of the bus.