Open everything up! If we die we die

a reply to: StallionDuck

Yeah... Let me know how you feel when you find out that someone in that group, including yourself, may be responsible for killing a 2 year old. No... Not everyone gets SICK or Dies but some do and it's not all about Old People who lived past their prime and should die...

Finding out that a bunch of people care very little about their fellow americans is sad.
I take steps to not be around anyone when I have the flu or even a cold. I live with a very unhealthy family member and have even , during bad flu seasons, worn masks to keep them from catching it.

If I had anything contagious I do what I can to keep from passing it along. Even if it means missing work or being uncomfortable.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
Glad to see you on board with Bill Gates and Co..

Amazing how easy it was to get everyone on board the depopulation train.

A small segment of the elderly and seriously ill dying is not "depopulation", it's everyday reality. If some 110 year old woman has a failing heart, do you think she should be given a heart transplant at the first opportunity so she can buy herself an extra month on Earth? Could we? Sure. Should we? No. Likewise, you don't destroy the economy and turn everyone into socially-distanced stay-at-home prisoners just to spare a small percentage of a small percentage of the elderly.

a reply to: chris_stibrany

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Great minds think alike

a reply to: chris_stibrany

I say open up, require masks, but that still leaves some problematic cases. Indoor restaurants and bars - can't wear a mask while eating drinking.

Here in IL, I almost don't notice that there are things that are closed. We'll go months without indoor dining out - usually more of a winter thing for us, and most of our mini-vacations are camping & cottage rentals (done both recently.) I'm working more and harder than pre-"shut down", and we still do the normal day-to-day stuff we normally do - lots of time outside with the kids, games/shows/reading in the evening.

I guess, when your job is open and you just generally don't frequent the places that are closed, you're almost blind to there even being anything going on, outside of mask wearing.

I would have gone insane by now if work was closed for the past 3½ months. I also would have probably built a deck, a nice raised garden and a swing set for the kids. The first 3 weeks of "shut-down", we were working 3 days/week. I put up a rope swing in one tree and refurbished/re-hung a chair swing in the other, and organized the garage.

ETA: "Round these parts", unless you're outside, with some space, or in your own home, its two-way masks everywhere. Meaning basically everyone is wearing masks. Illinois' infection and death rates have dropped to near zero. Unfortunately, people keep traveling to places where people think safety & caution is "tyranny" and "virtue signaling."

We have 2 employees in FL right now. While they will be wearing masks, I won't be spending any time in close quarters with them.

a reply to: trollz

A small segment? I don't call nearly 600,000 people a small segment. That's like hitler saying he only killed some of the Jews but there are plenty more to go around.

Those numbers may be majority older people but not all of them. A good chunk is still 'not old'.

Comparing these people to heart transplant patience... wow These are probably healthy "old people". See that weight lifter who worked out every day? Something 'must have' been wrong with him for a young guy to die that quickly... right?


You're just blinding yourself with your own ignorance. You're denying people the right to live because you need to work. No one is stopping you from working. If you're part of the service industry... Sorry... Find another job. Life happens. This is one of those times. People have been saying this to those of us in oil industry.

"awe... look... a couple million lost their jobs in the high polluting oil industry... maybe they should just get other jobs"

Where were you guys when we were loosing our jobs?

Again... My point. It only matters because it affects YOU. You don't give 2 $#!&s about anyone else, you're just upset because it's breaking YOUR economy.

No one is making you stay in doors. We're just asking, hoping for a little common sense.

Hanging out with children and people who may have a compromised immune system without precaution is just dumb. Some might say it's just survival of the strong. I say it's ignorance, senselessness, selfishness and quite possibly murder.

Guess it's just like putting your child in a room with people infected with chicken pox so the child can hurry up and get it over with.... This is literally how people think about covid. Herd immunity. Yet, when that exact story about a mother putting her children with other infected pox children, people were ready to sting her up from the gallows.

But hey... I fully expect this to come from a younger generation of people. No guessing game there.

a reply to: StallionDuck

Yeah... Let me know how you feel when you find out that someone in that group, including yourself, may be responsible for killing a 2 year old.

That's really not fair... and not even true. By that logic, everyone who gets the virus is the "victim" of whoever left the virus cells behind for them to become infected. That's life. Literally. The life of a virus (or bacteria or whatever). It's Mother Nature. And that includes our own bodies' natural and nurtured weaknesses. There are so many factors in how someone's body responds to a virus -- or any illness.

Obviously, many people will have their own inherent conditions and weaknesses that may make them less capable of fighting off a virus through no fault of their own. But what about those whose weaknesses are self-imposed?

If you don't eat well, and/or smoke too much, and/or drink too much, and/or don't get enough exercise, etc., and that weakens your body to the extent that you cannot fight a virus that everyone else can easily fight off, then who is really at fault? If you don't take care of your body, knowing the natural threats and risks of life, then isn't that your fault for not properly tending to your needs?

Likewise for those who will not/do not take appropriate measures to strengthen and fortify their body now. For example, we know that both Vitamins C and D have protective effects against CoVid, reduce severity of symptoms, and minimize complications. If someone can't be arsed to nurture their own body against known risks, they put themselves at risk.

Twice now, I have put myself in "harm's way" to help someone possibly sick with CoVid. I have a very healthy respect for the risks, and took appropriate precautions to minimize my risks, and got the job done. I've been told I was crazy and even stupid for even putting myself in that position. But ya know what? I'll do it again if the good Lord sends someone my way who needs help. And I know now that many others would turn a blind eye and let them suffer.

I refuse to let a virus take my compassion and humanity for others. And I do feel like that's exactly what's happening. What we are being forced to do by the mini-tyrants all around us and the mega-tyrants in government.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
A small segment? I don't call nearly 600,000 people a small segment.

The WORLD population is about 7,800,000,000. WORLD Covid-19 deaths are at around 549,000. 549,000 out of 7,800,000,000 is a tiny segment.
The USA population is about 329,000,000. USA Covid-19 deaths are about 134,000. 134,000 out of 329,000,000 is a tiny segment.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
That's like hitler saying he only killed some of the Jews but there are plenty more to go around.

That's absolutely ridiculous of you.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
You're just blinding yourself with your own ignorance.

I'll let the irony of this statement stand on its own in light of the first part.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
You're denying people the right to live because you need to work.

Absolutely ridiculous accusation that doesn't work on me because I think for myself. Also, are you trivializing a person's need to work in order to buy food and survive? You're denying people the right to live!

originally posted by: StallionDuck
No one is stopping you from working. If you're part of the service industry... Sorry... Find another job. Life happens. This is one of those times. People have been saying this to those of us in oil industry.

Correct, nobody is stopping me from working, because I work for an essential industry and go to work every day.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
"awe... look... a couple million lost their jobs in the high polluting oil industry... maybe they should just get other jobs"

I've never once trivialized people losing their jobs; quite the opposite, I've been saying businesses shouldn't be closing, and nobody should be losing their jobs over this. You're trying to attack me for having a stance I never even had.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
Where were you guys when we were loosing our jobs?

Trying to tell you you shouldn't have to lose your jobs over a trivial virus?

originally posted by: StallionDuck
Again... My point. It only matters because it affects YOU. You don't give 2 $#!&s about anyone else, you're just upset because it's breaking YOUR economy.

Except it doesn't effect me. I have my job and I'm still making the same amount of money.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
No one is making you stay in doors. We're just asking, hoping for a little common sense.

And nobody will. I'll go outside whenever I damn well please.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
Hanging out with children and people who may have a compromised immune system without precaution is just dumb. Some might say it's just survival of the strong. I say it's ignorance, senselessness, selfishness and quite possibly murder.

I guess you better never go in public again then. You never know if that person next to you has a compromised immune system or not. Be considerate of others and stay home!

a reply to: Boadicea

That's really not fair... and not even true.

How can you say that's not even true? Again. Common sense. Do you understand the concept?

You go to your grandmother's house where her, your grandfather, all your cousins and children are running around playing with no precaution what-so ever. You feel a lil tingle but don't think anything of it. You go home and wake up the next day, sick as a dog.

Knowing that this virus is everywhere and it's a very real thing and the potential it has... You find yourself at your nieces funeral a week later...

Not your fault... Would have happened anyways. It was just her time. She probably gave it to you... right? No biggie. Just go on your merry way.

That would stick with me for LIFE. I'd never forgive myself.

So what's not fair about it? I didn't quite get your explanation. It didn't make sense to me.

Obviously, many people will have their own inherent conditions and weaknesses that may make them less capable of fighting off a virus through no fault of their own. But what about those whose weaknesses are self-imposed?

If you don't eat well, and/or smoke too much, and/or drink too much, and/or don't get enough exercise, etc., and that weakens your body to the extent that you cannot fight a virus that everyone else can easily fight off, then who is really at fault? If you don't take care of your body, knowing the natural threats and risks of life, then isn't that your fault for not properly tending to your needs?

So what you're saying is... I don't go to the gym every day. I don't work out. I eat heavy meals. I don't run marathons. I'm not into lettuce. I smoke. Therefore... I should die. It's my own fault.

I might live for another 40 years but nope... I don't practice healthy habits so I should just croak. ...and it's my fault too.


Maybe I'll take a flame thrower to a party and light up some curtains. Not my fault you smoldered and cindered. You should have worn your flame retardant suit. I've got mine on.


Just got strapped by Al Qaeda to this here vest. Maybe I'll go hang out at the mall. Not my fault if they're there. They should have seen me coming.



But hey... You put your life on the line helping someone else a couple times.

Really? Is that your excuse? Justification? Seriously? Yeah Im not racist. I got a bunch of black friends, asian ones, india (cough) Native ones. See how that sounds? Yay... You risked your life a couple times. God forbid if you ever have to be a cop, a fireman, a paramedic.


You know about that preacher that was like "If God says it's my time... So be it. I'm gonna have this here congregation!"

Go figure. That idiot got himself dead. He probably took a few members of his flock with him. I'm sure God was giving him two thumbs up on the way to heaven and saying, "Way to go! That's the spirit". That guy basically committed suicide. He walked into an active volcano and said... "If God wants me to survive this fire, he'll cover me with water".

That makes sense. I think I'm coming around now.

Ignore my sarcasm. I just don't understand how people aren't seeing what's right their in front of them. Believe what you want. It's still here.

a reply to: oloufo

Brainwashed how? I am merely making personal choices. Nowhere have i said this virus doesnt exist? I am merely saying I am making the choice to live my life as close to normal as I am 'allowed' to and that we shouldnt be forced to stay in one place.

It is nice that you can go to France from Germany. I am supposed to fly to Portugal and then Germany in September but with the stupid EU reccomendations we may only be able to go Portugal and not Germany.
I say stupid because they are allowing the epicentre countries of the virus in even who lied about it (China) , letting SK, even UK but not USA. Its all political BS.

a reply to: scraedtosleep

You are looking at it as if I am intentionally infecting someone by being around them indoors with a mask?

They made the same choice I did, to die or not, of anything, by merely stepping out of their door.

Don't you understand life and personal freedom?
Don't you understand all living has risks and we are all going to die?

a reply to: StallionDuck

They ARE telling you to 'stop life'
They are intentionally fear mongering people to the point that governments are physically (trying to) limit where I go and what I do.
I am currently unable to go to a movie if I want to, I am unable to fly to Germany if i want to.
How is that NOT 'not telling you to stop life'?

I know two people who have had it, one was hospitalised for 2 weeks and he would agree we should all have personal choice in what we are allowed to do, and not be limited by governments or peer pressure.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: StallionDuck

Yeah... Let me know how you feel when you find out that someone in that group, including yourself, may be responsible for killing a 2 year old. No... Not everyone gets SICK or Dies but some do and it's not all about Old People who lived past their prime and should die...

Finding out that a bunch of people care very little about their fellow americans is sad.
I take steps to not be around anyone when I have the flu or even a cold. I live with a very unhealthy family member and have even , during bad flu seasons, worn masks to keep them from catching it.

If I had anything contagious I do what I can to keep from passing it along. Even if it means missing work or being uncomfortable.

Where have I EVER said in this thread I would not wear a mask ? Where have I said I WOULD go out if sick?
I am ranting against social and government control of my movements when I am NOT sick and when I am NOT doing anything malicious or irresponsible. there is no point to tell a healthy person what they cant do as long as they are being humane and staying away from vulnerable people.

a reply to: dogstar23

I agree stay open with masks. the end. It drastically reduces transmission.
I was working from home for about 3 months but now its one week in the office and one week from home.
Makes me wonder why they are making us go into the office at all.
At the office we have to wear masks when away from our desks but when we are sitting we can take them off.

a reply to: StallionDuck

You're acting like it was a personal CHOICE to infect them though. No one involved knew it was present.
Pretty much the logical conclusion of your argument is that everyone should stay indoors away from everyone indefinitely because they MAY have a virus and be asymptomatic.

originally posted by: oloufo
a reply to: chris_stibrany

thats why the numbers so high!

And there is NO DOUBT those numbers are correct, accurate or even true. Authority cares for us, right?

Then again, masks and gloves have a marked, tangible importance as I see it. They are a filter. They reveal the ongoing, daily, demonstrated selfishness and ignorance of that significant number in our populace, from all strata, who obviously kowtow to the advertised threat of COVID-19 when in public; fearful of catching it; that invisible killer virus. Yet, endlessly, PPE is discarded on our streets, sidewalks, public transit, parking lots, lawns, and creeks. I know because I do 5 to 7 miles of jogging each and every morning, then later, travel upwards of 160 kms throughout the day as a function of my employment.

The discarded PPE tells me, over and over that humanity is indeed a race, of brilliant idiots.

a reply to: StallionDuck

That's a whole lot of sarcasm to cover a whole lot of rationalizing for your own exercise in futility. Not to mention lots of excuses for mini-tyrants demanding protection from others while refusing to do what is best for themselves.

Is anyone going to live forever? Nope. That little girl would just as likely die from an infected cut if her body is incapable of fighting illness. Nature is the threat... not people.

Is everyone susceptible and vulnerable to viruses and other products of Mother Nature? Yup. It's your own body -- and its own strengths and weaknesses -- which is the deciding factor... not other people.

Is it practical or effective to expect others to do more to keep you safe than you do for yourself? Nope. One-size-fits-all solutions seldom fit all, so while such measures may "protect" (temporarily) many or even most, they will harm others.

Is it more practical or effective to demand that we all wear face masks to protect others when we could all wear face shields and protect BOTH ourselves and others? Nope. More important, anyone and everyone who wishes to take such a precaution to protect themselves are welcome to do so, and those who choose not to do so are also welcome to do so. Everyone can do what's right for them of their own free will. We could also have designated hours for mask-free shopping and conducting other public business for anyone who so chooses, also letting people make the choices that are right for them and their specific needs and circumstances.

And this doesn't even begin to address the greater harms inflicted on so many, in countless ways, all these "protections" are causing.

And if people are this afraid of a virus, I don't know why they aren't just as afraid of living... growing old ain't for sissies.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: Boadicea

That's really not fair... and not even true.

You go to your grandmother's house where her, your grandfather, all your cousins and children are running around playing with no precaution what-so ever. You feel a lil tingle but don't think anything of it. You go home and wake up the next day, sick as a dog.

Knowing that this virus is everywhere and it's a very real thing and the potential it has... You find yourself at your nieces funeral a week later...

Except grandma is in a vulnerable segment of the population so her sensible grandkids would tell her sorry granny no get-togethers at this time. Maybe some family members will meet up elsewhere. Your niece with compromised health and the rest of her household as a precaution won't be coming. You might even do what my family did on the 4th and go visit grandma by looking and chatting through the large plate glass window next to her front door. Everyone free to use their own judgement and not infringing on anyone else's freedoms.
You seem to confuse restoring rights with acting irresponsibly. No one is advocating irresponsible behavior.

a reply to: trollz

The WORLD population is about 7,800,000,000. WORLD Covid-19 deaths are at around 549,000. 549,000 out of 7,800,000,000 is a tiny segment.
The USA population is about 329,000,000. USA Covid-19 deaths are about 134,000. 134,000 out of 329,000,000 is a tiny segment.

The Earth is a SMALL segment of the universe. What's your point?

I see what you're 'trying' to say but it doesn't change anything. 550 THOUSAND people aren't a small anything. 550 THOUSAND people are quite a LOT of PEOPLE. Living humans. Living souls. Thinking, reasoning, happy, life enjoying human beings. Who are you to judge them to death? Who are you to take that life from them? That's exactly what you're doing and you're using the excuse that "they're old. They lived their life. They should be healthier. This is life". No... This is inanity. This is crazy. This is lack of all humanity. Why would a human being even consider thinking this way?

Bet Hitler had the same ideals just focused on a different group of people.

How is that ridiculous of me? Explain it. Literally tell me how this is ridiculous of me?

originally posted by: StallionDuck
You're just blinding yourself with your own ignorance.
--------------------
I'll let the irony of this statement stand on its own in light of the first part.

How? There is no standing. There is no light. You can't just drop statements like that and not explain it. Spit it out. How is blinding yourself with your own ignorance irony for me? I'm stating pure and simple statements that any normal human being would understand. You're simply telling me that it's survival of the fittest. I'm telling you that if I gave you a button that would waste all people over the age of ## and all people who smoke, are unhealthy or just dont care... you should push it and you're saying you'd do it without hesitation.

You didn't say it specifically but your stance is exactly that. 'Oh well... They're not healthy anyways. Let them die. I need to PARTAY!' It's all about you. Your care for humanity in general isn't there. Some might say that this simply means that you don't have a soul. Maybe you're young and don't know any better. Beats me. I'm just saying that's a pretty shoddy way of being a human being.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
You're denying people the right to live because you need to work.
-----------------
Absolutely ridiculous accusation that doesn't work on me because I think for myself. Also, are you trivializing a person's need to work in order to buy food and survive? You're denying people the right to live!

But that's exactly what you're saying. Doesn't work on you? What doesn't work on you. I'm merely stating that what I've said in metaphor is exactly what you're saying up front and open.

You:

If some 110 year old woman has a failing heart, do you think she should be given a heart transplant at the first opportunity so she can buy herself an extra month on Earth? Could we? Sure. Should we? No. Likewise, you don't destroy the economy and turn everyone into socially-distanced stay-at-home prisoners just to spare a small percentage of a small percentage of the elderly.

You're blatantly saying exactly what I described. If you were in charge, that lady wouldn't live another week or maybe longer. You don't know but you assume so she gets to die. You'd rather a "small", 1 million people dead than to give up your cheese burger because you're too damn lazy to make your own at home. You're using an excuse to say we're prisoners when we're nothing of the sort. I can leave my house anytime I want to. I can go shopping.

But but... I can't go to a restaurant or a bar... Oh the agony! The turmoil! The rights that are being stripped away so the weaker can live!

Man... I hope you're not a doctor, lawyer, cop or judge. Stick with something that doesn't depend on affecting another person's life.

Correct, nobody is stopping me from working, because I work for an essential industry and go to work every day.

So do I but right now, even my job isn't safe. I've come close to losing it a couple times since this started and tomorrow isn't promising. My company stopped severance pay last month. Uncle Sam isn't giving any more $$$ for the unemployed and state unemployment is poverty level in itself.

And still I rather be alive than lose my job. If I lose my job, I'll try to find another. Isn't that how it works? Why? Because I don't want to live in poverty. Been there until I was 15 and then a few times after as an adult. I'd rather not live it again. I think it's called purpose. If I'm dead, wth good is a job anyways?

Yes... We are struggling. I'm cut so far back on hours it's not even funny to do everything I can to keep my job. People are losing their jobs and have no where to go and nothing to eat except for what the government is doing for them. People aren't getting kicked out.... yet. We dont know what's going to happen until it happens and when this thing is all over. I rather the uncertainty that more people dead. You can fix problems but you can't fix dead.

've never once trivialized people losing their jobs; quite the opposite, I've been saying businesses shouldn't be closing, and nobody should be losing their jobs over this. You're trying to attack me for having a stance I never even had.

Didn't say you did. I'm asking... where were you when my job was a stake? Where were you when car makers, coal miners, shrimpers... all of those guys lost their jobs? My point is... It matters only when you're affected or when you start seeing the headlights coming towards you.

Trying to tell you you shouldn't have to lose your jobs over a trivial virus?

What's trivial about it? Do you have a degree in microbiology? No? Then you're not capable of giving an educated answer on the subject. The best you can give is word from someone who knew someone who knew someone who knew a doctor that might know something about it. ...or it's simply an opinion and has no, none, zero basis in fact.

Except it doesn't effect me. I have my job and I'm still making the same amount of money.

For now... And if it doesn't affect you then why do preventing death by doing common sense stuff affect you? Why do old people affect you since they're such a tiny spot on a minor planet in a massive universe? It's rhetorical but you can try.

And nobody will. I'll go outside whenever I damn well please.

But wait... Weren't you a prisoner in your own home? Now you're just plain confusing. Is it or isnt it? Can't be both.

Ever hear of the phrase, Mountain of a Molehill?

That's exactly where you're going with this. You're making something far bigger than it is while on the other hand, making no mind at all about the elephant in the room.

As I said... I'm not restricted save for a mask. But a mask seems to be the burden for most. I hate the damn thing too but I see that it's necessary. Not only for others I care for but also from just the idea that I might be the cause of a totally preventable death by having a little sense.

I guess you better never go in public again then. You never know if that person next to you has a compromised immune system or not. Be considerate of others and stay home!

originally posted by: underpass61

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: Boadicea

That's really not fair... and not even true.

You go to your grandmother's house where her, your grandfather, all your cousins and children are running around playing with no precaution what-so ever. You feel a lil tingle but don't think anything of it. You go home and wake up the next day, sick as a dog.

Knowing that this virus is everywhere and it's a very real thing and the potential it has... You find yourself at your nieces funeral a week later...

Except grandma is in a vulnerable segment of the population so her sensible grandkids would tell her sorry granny no get-togethers at this time. Maybe some family members will meet up elsewhere. Your niece with compromised health and the rest of her household as a precaution won't be coming. You might even do what my family did on the 4th and go visit grandma by looking and chatting through the large plate glass window next to her front door. Everyone free to use their own judgement and not infringing on anyone else's freedoms.
You seem to confuse restoring rights with acting irresponsibly. No one is advocating irresponsible behavior.

Far from it. My point is using the excuse that old people are a small price to pay for freedom is inhumane. I said it a hundred ways just as I've said that no one is getting imprisoned in their homes and people should act sensible and again stop using an excuse that grandma is too old anyways... who cares if she bites it.

I was fairly specific.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
What state you 'be at'?

a reply to: AutomateThis1

Tennessee. SSE of Nashville.