Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

a reply to: Nothin

Was asking what you thought of when the yogis and maharishis, ancient sages and philosophers, folks with 'weird' experiences, and all of the varied deep experiences of living humans : and how that compared to similar experiences of folks whom are strong believers, having similar experiences, including deep prayer, being 'touched-by-God', and such.

The yogi experiences is something entirely different in my mind, I'm
by no means an expert. If their experiences involve other entities
God warns us to test the spirit. To see if it is of the Father. What I
think the yogis are actually doing is forcing their way in to parts
unknown. Say in the mind, a different plain, or realm, or dimension.
or you name it. This could be why they prepare themselves over
long periods and even then they take baby steps. Slowly graduating
because they are aware of the dangers. There isn't any of that in
prayer that I've ever heard .

So I don't see how that would compare because no one even comes
to the Father except thru Christ. The way I've experienced his light
in my mind was as I said. Being patient and never doubting him in
thought when I was younger and was confronted by questions. I didn't
expect an immediate answer. But I noticed after any given amount
of time some occurrence however trivial but suddenly I'd see the answer
and it made perfect sense. The more that happens the more you see
how God speaks to us. Sometimes thru the freakiest most impossible
synchronicity's. I could share some examples but it'd be a lot text. And I
truthfully don't have time for all that right now.

I hope that at least comes close if not don't give up.

a reply to: pthena

You have no idea whether she was volunteering to be my next wife or not. Would you call my second wife ( if I had one ) names too ?

I would never of course not. But if she was hitting on a monogamous
married man and didn't back off? Then I have no problem calling em
like i see em. Unless you objected. So what's the deal I was under the
impression you were still married? Also you see why I don't need to
hear your business. Haven't you ever heard?

You tell people your business, you got no business. Any way.

a reply to: carsforkids

You tell people your business,

For the object lessons.
I'm not going to live forever.

Somebody may benefit.
You never know.

a reply to: pthena

So when you get a chance open up a copy of Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece and take a look at the apparatus, usually at the bottom of each page. Lots of variations due to different manuscripts having many word and sentence structure differences.

If seen enough examples of what you're talking about to know
that just as I said. The message and truth of any story or lesson
are never changed. You can site contradictions or missed translations
all day long that have no baring the on truth of any message that was
meant. And you should expect that if I believe in God then I believe
he's capable of seeing to his word. So I won't even reference the dead
see scrolls. Because you may have expected that. I can just rely on
faith however it might displease you.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: carsforkids

You tell people your business,

For the object lessons.
I'm not going to live forever.

Somebody may benefit.
You never know.

Are you sick? Serious question.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Because this is a public forum. Deal with it.

I never intended not to.

a reply to: pthena

That's not how fly eyes work.

a reply to: carsforkids

It's called mortality.
It's pretty common.

Now I see that I owe you an apology. I left you with the wrong impression because I left out the happy ending.

The Happy Ending

So each of us didn't seem able to walk on our own, so we held each other up, and then managed to walk together somewhat.

And for some reason that was the last thing that I remember about that night, holding on to each other.
--------------------------

That should clear up any misunderstanding. I hope.

a reply to: carsforkids

I can just rely on
faith however it might displease you.

I don't remember being displeased.

I was just showing off.
I'm so bad!

a reply to: TzarChasm

Kids Frontier describes it like this:

The way a fly sees is similar to how a picture is formed on a computer (See Figure 1). If you think of a picture on a computer, it is composed of many pixels that are in different places. Like the pixels in a picture on a computer, the information from the different little eyes gets put together to form an image. In this case, the fly's brain puts all the information from the little eyes together to make one image of what the fly sees.

kids.frontiersin.org...

The fly brain interprets so that the image is kind of like what humans see. ( from how I understand this anyway )

Dear pthena, this message is not any reply to your post below, my purpose with writing - and it happens that you are the last one to post when I checked in this morning, is to get your attention.


So, tell me in re God exists or not, do you have something that you care to talk about with me, in the direction of God existing or away from the direction of God existing?



This is an experiment to see whether any poster here is interested in the topic God exists or not, and has a thought about the issue, and cares to talk with me, so that we can learn from each other.

.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: carsforkids

I can just rely on
faith however it might displease you.

I don't remember being displeased.

I was just showing off.
I'm so bad!

a reply to: pthena

That should clear up any misunderstanding. I hope.

You shouldn't be to confident there is a misunderstanding.

a reply to: Pachomius

Dear Pachomius,

You may start reading here www.abovetopsecret.com... August 4-5, in this your thread.

Spoiler alert: in the direction of God existing.

Later on in this thread there is even a creed written by me.
----------
Edit to Add:

I noticed that at the bottom of my creed where I had intended to write "Vaya con Dios", I accidently wrote "Via con Dios".
Coincidence ? Maybe an implication.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
It really is a shame these gurus and shaman types are unable to engineer some manner of recording their experiences and bringing back any kind of traces like NASA did during the moon landing. Now that's compelling evidence.

Rocks, recordings? It sounds like you're talking about physical things.
What kind of physical traces would you expect someone to bring back from a non-physical journey?

I don't know if the experiences are real, but if you wish to know, the way to find out is to look inside, to journey as the shaman journeys. Otherwise, you are dismissing something without looking.

a reply to: thesearchfortruth

You

What kind of physical traces would you expect someone to bring back from a non-physical journey?

Spirit rocks?

originally posted by: thesearchfortruth

originally posted by: TzarChasm
It really is a shame these gurus and shaman types are unable to engineer some manner of recording their experiences and bringing back any kind of traces like NASA did during the moon landing. Now that's compelling evidence.

Rocks, recordings? It sounds like you're talking about physical things.
What kind of physical traces would you expect someone to bring back from a non-physical journey?

I don't know if the experiences are real, but if you wish to know, the way to find out is to look inside, to journey as the shaman journeys. Otherwise, you are dismissing something without looking.

Every thing that exists leaves some form of physical trace that can be dissected to identify and track down a cause. Ontological arguments are a fairly strong hint that such physical traces dont exist because the cause is purely hypothetical and lacks practical examples to derive information in a clinical setting. It's more a study in psychology than anything else.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Every thing that exists leaves some form of physical trace that can be dissected to identify and track down a cause

Almost everything... not consciousness And journeys in consciousness are what we're discussing here.

Ontological arguments are a fairly strong hint that such physical traces dont exist because the cause is purely hypothetical and lacks practical examples to derive information in a clinical setting. It's more a study in psychology than anything else.

Any conscious state is purely hypothetical, besides your own. What's your point? Are we discussing the same thing here?

a reply to: TzarChasm

That's what Pachomius is doing, existence exists therefore we can track it down by the physical part of existence to an intelligent spiritual creator.

Intellectual Points to counter the existence of God:
1) humans have invented lots of gods – thousands. That in itself proofs that all Gods are invented.
2) God biggest aspect by believers is Prayers. Proving the usefulness of prayer is obvious and can be tested and debunked by anyone honest enough to take up the challenge.
3) The Bible and other religious texts. Bible is a book of myths (the illusion of prayer being one of those myths). Since the Bible is a book of myths, the God of the Bible is mythological. This is another way to know that God is imaginary.
4) Science..the more we find out how vast and intricate our universe is and how things, including evolution works...the more we realize there is no need to replace the unknown with "God".
5) The impossible attributes of God: omnipotent, all knowing, all powerful yet depends on people to speak on his behalf. Any lunatic can speak on God's behalf yet god remain silent.
6) the complexity of God: If complexity cannot arise without intelligence, then we immediately must ask, "Who created the intelligent creator? To say that the Universe is self contain...not in need of a creator. No other explanation is required.

In other words, by applying logic, we can prove that God is imaginary.

a reply to: toktaylor

Dumb is clearly also a form of intellect.