Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

a reply to: Peeple

Perfection is now.
Perfection is the separate individuals interdependent upon the whole fabric of existence.

a reply to: pthena

Close enough.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TzarChasm

Perfection is a goal. No more than that.

Ever read Mount Analogue? I did quite a number of years ago. A recent thread reminded me of it.

The goal to be satisfied, and satisfaction is a decision to say "this is what it should be" and believe it. Aka attitude. Havent heard of analogue mountain but I'll check it out if you're recommending.

I'm sure the astronauts would have a few insights about seeing from above vs below. They know how lonely it is out there. How very empty and lonely.

a reply to: Phage

Is it this book?
Mount Analogue: A Tale of Non-Euclidean and Symbolically Authentic Mountaineering Adventures

I've read The River Why before.

a reply to: TzarChasm

As a college freshman. In 1971. It made an impression on me.
I dasn't try again in the cynicism of my current age.

a reply to: pthena

Yep.

It's unfinished, btw. Which is actually appropriate.

a reply to: Phage

As long as I'm in the right ball park
missing first base isn't that bad.

What really sucks is when you run all bases perfect
then realize that that's not even where the actual game is being played.

a reply to: pthena

You just aren't meditating hard enough.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Phage

As long as I'm in the right ball park
missing first base isn't that bad.

What really sucks is when you run all bases perfect
then realize that that's not even where the actual game is being played.

Some games are you vs the other team, and some games are you vs yourself.

a reply to: Pachomius

Dear Tok, you can talk forever, but you have no sense of intellectual sincerity and courage to take on my challenge to you, namely, interact with me on my post as reproduced below as follows - but I will already tell you, please go away and do your attempts at derail elsewhere.

Awesome post and I'm waiting for any one of the members here to
understand that their own reality is limited. This is obviously
the nature of any captured system. And so it goes that is a reality of
our highly precarious existence in this beautiful but absolutely hostile
universe.

So if a reality is limited as ours surely and truthfully is then there must be a
greater reality. And reality does not exist beyond conscious observation.
Logical conclusion. The greater reality must be experienced by a greater
being than ourselves. It is only by thinking and reason that I've brought
myself past belief to knowledge. I can say with no doubt God exists because
my thinking and patience to find reason, finally opened the door if you will.
And thru the open door on my thoughts shined greatly the light of eternal mind.

Takes an unspecified amount of time but anyone can do it. It's quite simply called
a relationship. And the Bible is the best description we have of this greater
being supreme absolutely. Every question every ridicule our negative members
have used and every mockery is completely defeated and yet they persist.

Not one shred of evidence from even one big brain ever from anyone that
proves God does not exist. And yet they persist at the comical notion that
they know something they can not prove to themselves. As I have proved
to myself he surely does exist. And they just have no idea how exciting that
is on every level.

a reply to: carsforkids

And reality does not exist beyond conscious observation. 

Uh huh. So explain the 3 billion years before life developed on Earth. Or the 10 billion years of celestial activity before that.

With all due respect, if you think anything in this world is perfect or that it isn't because you got the wrong attitude, you're mad.

a reply to: TzarChasm

My knowledge of that is as limited as is the reality I just wrote about.
And so is yours or maybe you can tell me all about it? I'm simply saying
someone can.

Disclaimer: I am not pointing in this post to any if any at all atheists participating in this thread of mine, my mention of atheists is what I know as for myself personally to be anonymous atheists, but they do publish writings against religion and God and put their names thereto.

AND I submit to the powers that be here, should they decide to remove the present post.

_____________________________




MONO




Dear atheists, do you really believe that you don't have to prove anything in this thread at all, in which case then please go away, this thread is addressed to all persons who care to at least explain their whatever positions they have in re God exists or not.


Don't stay and post here if you don't need to prove anything or at least explain your thoughts at all in re God exists or not.


The fact that you are here at all in a thread concerned with proving God to be existing or not, that is the evidence that you care to put in even just empty words to make yourselves intellectually visible, but you are not so much intellectual as that you are after projecting your physical presence here, still though vacuously as occupied with honest intelligent productive thinking.


My observation is that atheists are disgruntled ex-Christians who have some grudge against their erstwhile Christian faith or church or personalities, but instead of just getting out and moving on without any more anything to do with their erstwhile Christian faith, they take to attack God, like calling God a flying spaghetti monster, or like one Bertrand Russell (the father of evasions against his erstwhile Christian faith, who started the trend with calling God an orbiting teapot in space.



Any armchair psychologist can see the silly rationalization of atheists, namely, instead of honest admission that they choose to not comply with Christian morality in particular in re Christian sexual morality, they deny God, the God in particular of Christian sexual morality.


Now, that is however not my focus, God being the author of Christian morality, in particular sexual morality, my focus is on God in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

.

a reply to: Pachomius

Yeah.
Sexual morality is a very big deal. And it's everybody's business. And only Christians know anything about it.

a reply to: Phage

You got it all wrong. God loves watching people having sex. The fact that sexual morality is in decline is proof God exists because he got bored with always only getting to see one position under the blanket.
God loves watching people having sex. People love sex. Ergo ipso facto God exists.

Case closed

originally posted by: Pachomius
Disclaimer: I am not pointing in this post to any if any at all atheists participating in this thread of mine, my mention of atheists is what I know as for myself personally to be anonymous atheists, but they do publish writings against religion and God and put their names thereto.

AND I submit to the powers that be here, should they decide to remove the present post.

_____________________________




MONO




Dear atheists, do you really believe that you don't have to prove anything in this thread at all, in which case then please go away, this thread is addressed to all persons who care to at least explain their whatever positions they have in re God exists or not.


Don't stay and post here if you don't need to prove anything or at least explain your thoughts at all in re God exists or not.


The fact that you are here at all in a thread concerned with proving God to be existing or not, that is the evidence that you care to put in even just empty words to make yourselves intellectually visible, but you are not so much intellectual as that you are after projecting your physical presence here, still though vacuously as occupied with honest intelligent productive thinking.


My observation is that atheists are disgruntled ex-Christians who have some grudge against their erstwhile Christian faith or church or personalities, but instead of just getting out and moving on without any more anything to do with their erstwhile Christian faith, they take to attack God, like calling God a flying spaghetti monster, or like one Bertrand Russell (the father of evasions against his erstwhile Christian faith, who started the trend with calling God an orbiting teapot in space.



Any armchair psychologist can see the silly rationalization of atheists, namely, instead of honest admission that they choose to not comply with Christian morality in particular in re Christian sexual morality, they deny God, the God in particular of Christian sexual morality.


Now, that is however not my focus, God being the author of Christian morality, in particular sexual morality, my focus is on God in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

.

Why sexual morality specifically? Is that the crux of your agenda starting this exchange and doing your best to validate your creation hypothesis?

a reply to: Phage

Yeah.
Sexual morality is a very big deal. And it's everybody's business. And only Christians know anything about it.

I think it is when you consider sexual depravity is often noted to be
one of the pitfalls of destruction from with in for many past empires.
how do you feel about pedophiles for instance?

a reply to: carsforkids

I don't think what consenting adults do is anyone's business.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Some games are you vs the other team, and some games are you vs yourself.

The OP says we should be considering causation/causality.

A while back Phage said "close enough"

No. Not close enough. Perfect now is an attitude. Better later is an attitude too.

There is an opposition to "better later", involving the Politicization of Science.

Take overpopulation of humans, human caused climate change, consumer based market economy. I am no expert in any of those fields, merely a consumer of information.

Therefore a division of labor, specialization of fields, is necessary to provide the data to make possible a "better later". Causally, that depends upon now, the present, and what we do now.

Politics is not bad in and of itself as a field. But when division is purposely caused which obstructs the flow of Science (reality) based solutions for a better later than we do have an other team.

[ the above is my addendum to the statement "Perfection is now" from a previous post. ]