Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

Of course I am not insisting that you bang your nose against a concrete wall, there are other ways to assure to yourselves that you do exist, and that is for examples, harmless ones, like you can kiss your babies, in this way you at the same time assure yourselves that your baby or babies exist.

Do you get my drift?

Or you want to insist that there is no absolute certainty that you exist, in which case for writing here, you are wasting your time and labor - and conducting yourselves illogically, because you are not sure that your posts here will be read by anyone here.


It is true that sometimes rarely we wonder whether we are in a dream or in objective reality, but we always in the course of a dream sooner than later notice that we are dreaming, and wake up into the reality of our existence outside of dreams.

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a reply to: Pachomius
f God truly is the inspiration behind this purportedly divine declaration to the world, he shows absolutely no interest in its understandability or accuracy in astronomy, cosmology, zoology, botany, anthropology, geology, ecology, geography, physiology (just examine the bible).

Nothing can be more detrimental to the authenticity of a statement than contradictory phenomena that we readily observe and experience. With no other evidence to consider, these natural manifestations should always override what we might hope and think to be correct explanations for unignorable discrepancies. Such is the power of science and reason. They are the impartial pursuit of an answer to a question, not the search for supplements to a predetermined answer.

a reply to: Pachomius

It is true that sometimes rarely we wonder whether we are in a dream or in objective reality, but we always in the course of a dream sooner than later notice that we are dreaming, and wake up into the reality of our existence outside of dreams.

I just remembered something that I forgot to fact-check. I was watching this show on TV Evil_(TV_series). This demon thing was messing with this lady in her dreams, trying to convince her that the terrible things he was doing were really happening, and that she wasn't dreaming. Being a psychologist, she had a plan. She taped a paper with words on it to her ceiling. The next time the demon thing showed up she tried to read the words, but couldn't, thus proving that she was dreaming. The theory being that while sleeping, the part of the brain that processes words is not active.

But I frequently read in my dreams. One time I even wrote a basic computer program in my sleep. When I woke up, I typed it into my computer and ran it, and it worked. And I didn't lose any sleep over it.

So now I need to check that, because someone told me that not everything you see on TV is real.

Edit to add:
Looks like there was a study done in 2014, which indicated that normal sleeping people can distinguish between words that refer to animal and not animal.

a reply to: pthena

Goto command is of the devil.

a reply to: neutronflux

What about gosub and return?

a reply to: Pachomius
How can you be sure that it is not all a dream?
What if there is just dreaming?

originally posted by: Pachomius
Of course I am not insisting that you bang your nose against a concrete wall, there are other ways to assure to yourselves that you do exist, and that is for examples, harmless ones, like you can kiss your babies, in this way you at the same time assure yourselves that your baby or babies exist.

Do you get my drift?

Well that's much nicer. It seems to me: that the problem with you demanding we answer with only 'yes or no', can lead you to put words in our mouths, and extrapolate all kinds of meanings from our answers, that were never in our intentions.

How about you stop trying to box us in, and start accepting that some of us may have different viewpoints from you, without being judged ?

Or you want to insist that there is no absolute certainty that you exist, in which case for writing here, you are wasting your time and labor - and conducting yourselves illogically, because you are not sure that your posts here will be read by anyone here.

Is a 'yes or no' answer illogical, in and of itself ?
Or might the supposed 'illogicality' : be merely a perception, by the perceiver ?
Do you write here for the benefit of others, your own benefit, or perhaps some mixture of both ?
As ItIsNowAgain may ask: Who, what, or where is this 'anyone here' ?

It is true that sometimes rarely we wonder whether we are in a dream or in objective reality, but we always in the course of a dream sooner than later notice that we are dreaming, and wake up into the reality of our existence outside of dreams. .

Do you really feel that in dreams ?
Personally have only recognized like 2 or 3 times, that was in a dream.
For me : dreams feel really, really, real.
Experiencing that : am never sure that this supposed consensual reality, is really, really, real. ( Other reasons as well. )

So: back on point : You have announced that you are looking for help, in thinking honestly, intelligently, and productively whether God exists or not, right ?

You insisted on boiling it down to commencing with one question : " 1. Do you concur with me that you and I we exist, yes or no? "
My requested one-word answer was: "no". To which you went-on to extrapolate your own interpretations.

Here's a novel idea : Why don't you, use some honest, intelligent, and productive thinking, in attempting to understand, instead of jumping to conclusions ?

Am willing to stretch, if you are, so what sayeth thee ?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Would that mean the dream exists and we exist in the dream? Wouldn't that still be existing now?

Does God exist? (Lol)

What would it mean when God exists and what would it mean when God does not exist?

A god could make people believe he does not exist.

I think the issue with people who are convinced God does not exist is they look beyond creation and want God to make Himself available in a lab for scientific experiments although we are the object experimented upon ourselves.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

I found something interesting while reading about Odin.
There is this practice that the ancient Romans had when encountering other people, a process known as interpretatio romana (where characteristics perceived to be similar by Romans result in identification of a non-Roman god as a Roman deity).

Tacitus's "among the gods Mercury is the one they principally worship" is an exact quote from Julius Caesar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico (1st century BCE) in which Caesar is referring to the Gauls and not the Germanic peoples. Regarding the Germanic peoples, Caesar states: "[T]hey consider the gods only the ones that they can see, the Sun, Fire and the Moon", which scholars reject as clearly mistaken, regardless of what may have led to the statement.
Odin#Roman_era_to_Migration_Period

The scholars claim that Caesar was wrong. But the scholars don't know who among the Germanic peoples Caesar may have spoken to.

God does not exist because He is the transcendental source of all objects in existence and so cannot simultaneously be one of these objects whose existence can be scientifically ascertained.

The question of this thread is, metaphysically speaking, misconceived. I just wasted two minutes posting this comment in it.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Would that mean the dream exists and we exist in the dream?

You are dreaming everything, including that body, those sensations, every thought, every flower, these words....everything.

You are not a character in the dream.....

The questions are always about does God exist......but hardly anyone asks 'what am I?' or 'what is this?'

It's the cosmic joke 😍


The following is taken from Peter Browns website:

What you are actually is beyond words, but it would be not untrue to say you are nothing whatsoever other than pure, infinite, disembodied consciousness/intelligence; a field of miraculous infinite light; God dreaming itself; an infinite point of pure potential; or the infinite implications of nothing whatsoever.

The immediate presentation of this unspeakable actuality is the field of your experience, which is an instantaneously appearing virtual field of Radiant Presence as apparent qualities. This is the actuality of which every/ and any/ thing that you think exists consists. This is inclusive and complete; nothing whatever other than this field exists. In short, the entirety of Reality is the "bubble" of YOUR experience, the field of Radiant Presence, which alone exists.

This is the totality of Reality. This is not theoretical, but is actually, immediately real; always the case right here right now.
THE OPEN DOORWAY
www.theopendoorway.org...

a reply to: micpsi

I just wasted two minutes posting this comment in it.

No, not at all. You may have just provided the key to unlocking this enigma.

When I was in college there was a cartoon taped on the door of one of the Theology professor's office. I won't try to draw it but this is what it said:

"And Jesus said unto them, 'Who do you say that I am?'

And they replied, 'You are the eschatological manifestation of the ground of our being, the kerygma in which we find the ultimate meaning of our interpersonal relationship.'

And Jesus said: 'What'?"

I couldn't remember the exact wording used so I utilized an internet search engine and found this:

The following was found among the graffiti on a wall at St. John's University:
And Jesus Said, "What?"

That article was written by Robert F. Turner in July 1980. The cartoon that I saw was taped on the door in 1975. No date is given for when the original graffiti was written on the wall.

What seems painfully obvious due to it's lack, is the word transcendence.

Just now, when I was attempting to re-locate the article quoted above, I accidently included the word transcendental, instead of eschatological.

The names Paul Tillich and Emanuel Kant came up. I don't know if we have a Tillich scholar in the house but we may have a Kantian expert or two. One explained the meaning of the Kantian Imperative some years ago.

a reply to: Pachomius

Addressing Pachomius:

I got to looking at graffiti and found something quite extraordinary.
So extraordinary that I thought it deserved its own thread. In the Beginning There Was ()

originally posted by: toktaylor
a reply to: Pachomius
f God truly is the inspiration behind this purportedly divine declaration to the world, he shows absolutely no interest in its understandability or accuracy in astronomy, cosmology, zoology, botany, anthropology, geology, ecology, geography, physiology (just examine the bible).

Nothing can be more detrimental to the authenticity of a statement than contradictory phenomena that we readily observe and experience. With no other evidence to consider, these natural manifestations should always override what we might hope and think to be correct explanations for unignorable discrepancies. Such is the power of science and reason. They are the impartial pursuit of an answer to a question, not the search for supplements to a predetermined answer.

Prescinding from the quote above but talking on a higher level of thinking...


First things first first: Start with the concept of God, namely: God (in concept) is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

If your concept of God does not include the text above, I submit that no honest intelligent productive thinking human needs at all take your God seriously - as to even participate in a creditable forum to discuss it i.e your idea of God.

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a reply to: Pachomius

You haven’t even provided evidence of god.

A concept is perceived and conceptualized differently from person to person. You haven’t created a fundamental constant of the universe. Your created a construct that only lives as thought. And is thought of differently from person to person. And could not exist until it was thought of.

When there wan no man on earth, and no man to think the concept of god, there was no god? So you pigeonholed god in To not existing to man could conceptualize.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Pachomius
How can you be sure that it is not all a dream?
What if there is just dreaming?

If it is just dreaming, wait until you awake from your dream, if you never awake, then good-bye to you.

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Dear all posters here:



1. First we have the concept of God in our mind, namely: God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

2. Then we go forth into the world outside and independent of our mind,

3. to seek you me and everything with a beginning:

4. there: we you and I and everything we see which all have a beginning,

5. they are all evidence of God in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

6. If you have honest intelligent productive thinking, you will accept the existence of God from this procedure No. 1 to No. 5.

7. If you don't accept, then that is the evidence that you do not exercise honest intelligent productive thinking, or you have extremely low !Q.


So, what it's going to be: (a) no honest intelligent productive thinking, or (b) extremely low IQ - the explanation why you don't accept the existence of God?



Now, here is my concept of evidence:

Evidence is anything existing that leads man to know another thing existing.

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Beware, dear readers, of posters who are into spinning and spinning cobwebs of vacuous nonsense, and never going forth into the world outside and independent of their cobweb infested brain, to appreciate the presence of babies and roses, and thereby come to know God exists, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

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