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Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

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posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 08:07 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: neutronflux

So, how many angels, exactly, can dance on the head of a pin?


Prove that was actually a scholarly topic. Or just a false argument and innuendo? I hope you know the supposed history of the term.

But yes. That is exactly what Pachomius’ argument amounts to. Pointless definitions that lead to no evidence.

If a person believes in god. That reason and the evidence is different for each person.



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 08:15 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

Does true faith require proof?
Does the seeking of evidence imply a lack of faith?

edit on 7/11/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 09:00 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: neutronflux

Does true faith require proof?
Does the seeking of evidence imply a lack of faith?


That is what is the absurdity of this thread, it only takes faith.

As far as evidence. If you have a personal relationship with God, you don’t need evidence.

I really don’t think people need evidence.

They either go to church for station, which is sad.

Or people reach for a relationship with God because they are spiritually more whole with God than without God.

And some don’t need God at all.

Again. A relationship with God, not believing in God, or riding god’s coattails in the USA is supposed to be a personal thing.

I think that is a blessing. Where people are forced into a religion is a curse.
edit on 11-7-2020 by neutronflux because: Had wrong word.



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 09:03 PM
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a reply to: Phage

Sorry. I wasn’t trying to ignore the evidence part. God doesn’t speak to me in words. More like moves through my spirit. But to me, it would be like someone asking, “do you have evidence you have a mom and dad.”

I am sure this post reveals some psychological aspects of faith.

But for me there is evil in the world. If there is evil, then there is good. If there is good in the world, then there is some supreme moral authority that dictates what is good. Or some “pure” being that sets the standard.
edit on 11-7-2020 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: Phage

But Pachomius wants evidence to prove god. Then that means scientific method. And Pachomius is failing miserably. Creating definitions, changing the definition of evidence to cook the books, and not providing actual evidence is not helping the individuals case. Then those who do have a personal, or working relationship with God, the whole thing is ridiculous.



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 09:11 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

I don't question faith.



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 09:14 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: neutronflux

I don't question faith.


But one should take stock of what they believe, and why.



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 09:15 PM
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a reply to: Phage

I guess understand why is the better statement.



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 09:15 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

Always.
But if the basis of that belief is faith, then what? It gets a bit circular.


edit on 7/11/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 09:23 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: neutronflux

Always.
But if the basis of that belief is faith, then what? It gets a bit circular.



Or you can just go with it. And try to honor “good” by loving your neighborhood as much as humanly possible. While trying to give more than you take.



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 09:32 PM
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a reply to: neutronflux

That's more common sense than faith.

Either can be lacking in some.

edit on 7/11/2020 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 11:52 PM
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Dear everyone, I am going back to the start of this my thread, it is kind of doing a reset.


This is the title of the thread from Pachomius:

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.


And the OP is as follows:

[posted on Jun, 25 2020 @ 01:12 PM]
On the assumption that mankind sincerely seeks knowledge, I submit that it is possible for any person to come to resolve the issue God exists or not, with honest intelligent productive thinking, i.e., thinking on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas. Now, honest intelligent productive thinking on the said issue must start with working together to concur on the concept of God. What do you dear colleagues here say?

www.abovetopsecret.com...





[posted on Jun, 25 2020 @ 01:28 PM] a reply to: Teikiatsu


“I think you'll need to define what you think God encompasses.” -Teikiatsu

Well, Teikiatsu, if you are around, I will tell you that God encompasses all existence, whatsoever, period.

As we are all in existence, then that is the proof from evidence that there is God, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

So, everyone with honest intelligent productive thinking, can you understand that all existence that is with a beginning, it the existence with a beginning necessarily implicates an existence with no beginning at all, and that is God in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.



originally posted by: Teikiatsu
I think you'll need to define what you think God encompasses.

From my upbringing and personal philosophy, God existed before the universe began. He exists outside reality as we know it, can walk into and out of the universe the way an architect can walk in and out of a building he designed, has fundamental understanding and manipulation of the entirety of the universe because He designed it from the start, and thinks in ways beyond human comprehension.

So good luck with that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 11 2020 @ 11:54 PM
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Dear Pachomius,

The issue will never be resolved. It is up to you to make your own choice in the matter.



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 03:28 AM
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originally posted by: Phage
Dear Pachomius,

The issue will never be resolved. It is up to you to make your own choice in the matter.



Dear Phage, why do you choose what I call the passive third person anonymous kind of a sentence in this line from you, "The issue will never be resolved."

Suppose you just write: "Man will never resolve the issue [God exists or not]."

Or "We will never resolve the issue [God exists or not]."

Or "You will never resolve the issue [God exists or not]."



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 03:43 AM
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a reply to: Pachomius

Do you exist? Or perhaps it is better to ask without God existing would you exist?
Here is the definition of God... the creator of the universe...
Now it matters not who or what u believe God to be... Or if you want to believe there is no God...
There is nothing that can show the universe always existed...
But there is evidence the universe had a beginning...
In other words it was created...
Therefore God exists...
Further more whatever God is they would have to have existed before the creation of the universe and also not be bound by any of the universal laws we know... for example God is not bound by time life death or any physical limitation of their creation...
A lot of people just have to deny that God exists, but everything I just said is entirely true...

edit on 12-7-2020 by 5StarOracle because: Word



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 04:41 AM
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edit on 12-7-2020 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 04:58 AM
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a reply to: 5StarOracle
The assumption is that there is two....creator and the created.

What if there is just one.....without a second?

The only separate thing is you.....but that is just unexamined assumption.....a case of misidentification......the original sin.

Find out what you are.



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 05:07 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

I see you're still pedaling this nonsensical metaphysics, even though I've explained thoroughly why such a thing should be rejected in other threads.



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 05:23 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
The name for it is Advaita or the modern term is non duality.

Just because you think it is nonsense makes absolutely no difference to me.

But thanks anyway

edit on 12-7-2020 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2020 @ 05:32 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

Well, nonsense isn't a subjective term. So I am not just stating an opinion to you. Nonsense is referring to words or language that have no meaning, and therefore convey no intelligible ideas. You believe all is one and that distinction is illusory. This requires there to be no distinction between noun or verb, subject or predicate, and so on. The very basis of language which is distinction between the signified and the signifier as distinct is what allows language to be an intelligible concept. This is destroyed under your view of reality, and thus everything is quite literally nonsense by definition. You cannot eat your cake and have it too.



edit on 12-7-2020 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)



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