Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

originally posted by: spy66

My question is how do you explain that Our finite universe will retract because of the difference between Our expansion and infinite Space time..?

The space/time does not grow or retract...it is infinite. The retraction is all the finite mass that is still moving away at near light speed.

WHat will cause the retraction..? Some kind of black hole (vacuum)..?

The gravity of the mass is pulling on the big bang explosion that was the initial cause for the expansion and continued current expansion. So the theory is over many billions...billions...billions... Get the picture... of years that initial expansion will continue to slow down and reverse with the pull of gravity.

I know this is a popular Scientific theory, but can you explain it and make sense of it when you compare finite time Space to infinite time Space..?

You must see the big issue here… Do you really think Our finite time Space would be able to create a greater force then the infinite time Space, that would be able to create a vacuum that would pull all finite matter and energies back to a singularity..?

That is not possible… Not even scientifically.

You are mixing things up. There is just one space time, that is infinite, and there then is mass that is finite. We know that a black hole rips the fabric of our space time, so what do you think would happen if all this mass collapsed back to a singularity? I think as instantly as our space/time came about it would also instantly disapear.

Let me just ask you this: The singularity that shaped Our universe was intitially infinite small before expansion…… How small is infinitly small. And what force would be capable of compressing a singularity to be infinitly small..?

What finite is capable of doing that……?

Infinite with no time as a dimension is not something we really can comprehend. Maybe when we do we can call ourselves Gods...

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux
The post has been edited.......

Addressing anyone knowledgeable, Is that line above, "The post has been edited......." put in the post of Itisnowagain by some authority here in ATS?


If so, then ATS is monitoring posters here as to edit words which to ATS are not acceptable?

"My question is how do you explain that Our finite universe will retract because of the difference between Our expansion and infinite Space time..?" -spy66



The words above are indicative of the premise by the author that there is no entity in charge and in control of the finite universe, but the finite universe is itself in charge and in control of itself?

Or there is an entity in charge and in control of the finite universe, so that from my part I will submit that this entity in charge and in control is what I call God, in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.


_______________________

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Xtrozero

Sorry for a late reply. Its summer hollidays for us here in scaninavia

Nope... Our expansion is 14 billion light years big... space/time is infinite... see the difference?

Yes i see the difference.

My question is how do you explain that Our finite universe will retract because of the difference between Our expansion and infinite Space time..?

WHat will cause the retraction..? Some kind of black hole (vacuum)..?

I know this is a popular Scientific theory, but can you explain it and make sense of it when you compare finite time Space to infinite time Space..?

You must see the big issue here… Do you really think Our finite time Space would be able to create a greater force then the infinite time Space, that would be able to create a vacuum that would pull all finite matter and energies back to a singularity..?

That is not possible… Not even scientifically.

Let me just ask you this: The singularity that shaped Our universe was intitially infinite small before expansion…… How small is infinitly small. And what force would be capable of compressing a singularity to be infinitly small..?

What finite is capable of doing that……?

Dear everyone here, that is why I want to get everyone to contribute their definition on what is evidence, because there are here posters who do demand that there be evidence to the existence of God: so, we have got to work together as to arrive at the consensus on what is evidence, then we will apply it on the issue God exists or not.


Otherwise, everyone has got to accept that from the part of posters here and starting with them, these posters who demand evidence, they are not rational: wherefore no sense at all with engaging them in rational conversation, on the issue God exists or not.


______________________




Dear readers, please read the text below under the caption [For your orientation], so that you will know what the thread is all about.



[For your orientation anyone]

For my definition of God: God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning." -Pachomius [17 words]

And for universe, my definition is the following: universe in concept is everything observable to man, in particular to scientists to study - most importantly in regard to its origin.

This is the title of the thread from Pachomius:

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.


And the OP is as follows:

[posted on Jun, 25 2020 @ 01:12 PM]
On the assumption that mankind sincerely seeks knowledge, I submit that it is possible for any person to come to resolve the issue God exists or not, with honest intelligent productive thinking, i.e., thinking on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas. Now, honest intelligent productive thinking on the said issue must start with working together to concur on the concept of God. What do you dear colleagues here say?

posted by Pachomiius on Jul, 7 2020 @ 09:03 AM

Okay, everyone here, these are to-date and time so far two definitions of evidence.


From TzarChasm
Evidence is a body of facts that support a statement.


From Pachomius
Evidence is anything at all existing which leads man to know another thing existing.



Okay, everyone with daring honest intelligent and productive thinking, add to the definitions of evidence.

Addendum


And I submitted just very recently, that I will not deal with posters here who 'reason' on revelation, and also posters here who deny that there are universal values with civilized mankind, like rape is wrong, murder is wrong, etc.

originally posted by: Pachomius

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux
The post has been edited.......

Addressing anyone knowledgeable, Is that line above, "The post has been edited......." put in the post of Itisnowagain by some authority here in ATS?


If so, then ATS is monitoring posters here as to edit words which to ATS are not acceptable?

I edited the post.

a reply to: Pachomius

Realty

universal values with civilized mankind

Values are based out of religion. You do not tolerated religion. Looks like it’s time to banned yourself from your own thread. Sorry Charlie. You got to go based on your own standards. One must keep up self imposed values. Chin up old chap. See ya.

a reply to: Pachomius

You

originally posted by: Pachomius

that realm of existence where God dwells, there is neither good nor evil, it is all pure existence.

So, how can anything be evil if it’s part of the existence of god? God’s being soaks into all existence? Is that false? So god ether exists beside evil in your reality. Or there is no evil?

Will you guys just employ some honest intelligent productive thinking, and contribute your idea on the meaning of the word evidence?



Here are so far two contributions:


From TzarChasm
Evidence is a body of facts that support a statement.


From Pachomius
Evidence is anything at all existing which leads man to know another thing existing.

________________________



Dear readers, please read the text below under the caption [For your orientation], so that you will know what the thread is all about.

And cease and desist from irrelevant verbiage - not apropos the current thread here.



[For your orientation anyone]

For my definition of God: God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning." -Pachomius [17 words]

And for universe, my definition is the following: universe in concept is everything observable to man, in particular to scientists to study - most importantly in regard to its origin.

This is the title of the thread from Pachomius:

Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.


And the OP is as follows:

[posted on Jun, 25 2020 @ 01:12 PM]
On the assumption that mankind sincerely seeks knowledge, I submit that it is possible for any person to come to resolve the issue God exists or not, with honest intelligent productive thinking, i.e., thinking on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas. Now, honest intelligent productive thinking on the said issue must start with working together to concur on the concept of God. What do you dear colleagues here say?

a reply to: Pachomius


From TzarChasm
Evidence is a body of facts that support a statement.

Pachomius, what tangible evidence have you provided your god exists? Seems you only have provided faith.

a reply to: Pachomius

Fixed it for you to the truth

Evidence is anything at all existing which leads man to know another thing existing or not.

It’s not a universal law everything dreamed by man is truth and / or exists. Flat earth for example.

a reply to: neutronflux

So. If your not open to the possibility your god doesn’t exist. Or reality as you want to define it doesn’t exist, then your whole argument is a religion.

a reply to: Pachomius

So you think god can exist outside faith?

Good thing there is this old thing called scientific method.


www.sciencebuddies.org...

I think we can skip to step three?

3. Construct a Hypothesis

A hypothesis is an educated guess about how things work. It is an attempt to answer your question with an explanation that can be tested. A good hypothesis allows you to then make a prediction:
"If _____[I do this] _____, then _____[this]_____ will happen."

State both your hypothesis and the resulting prediction you will be testing. Predictions must be easy to measure.

For detailed help with this step, use these resources:
Variables
Variables for Beginners
Hypothesis
4. Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment

Your experiment tests whether your prediction is accurate and thus your hypothesis is supported or not. It is important for your experiment to be a fair test. You conduct a fair test by making sure that you change only one factor at a time while keeping all other conditions the same.

You should also repeat your experiments several times to make sure that the first results weren't just an accident.

For detailed help with this step, use these resources:
Experimental Procedure
Materials List
Conducting an Experiment
5. Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion

Once your experiment is complete, you collect your measurements and analyze them to see if they support your hypothesis or not.

Scientists often find that their predictions were not accurate and their hypothesis was not supported, and in such cases they will communicate the results of their experiment and then go back and construct a new hypothesis and prediction based on the information they learned during their experiment. This starts much of the process of the scientific method over again. Even if they find that their hypothesis was supported, they may want to test it again in a new way.

For detailed help with this step, use these resources:
Data Analysis & Graphs
Conclusions
6. Communicate Your Results

www.sciencebuddies.org...

So.....

Please state your hypothesis concerning the existence of god.

What is experiment to prove the existence of god?

How will you record and make your resulting data available for peer review?

God, is of a archaic origin, the belief in gods or god, occured during a time eons ago. Without the worship of god(s) and the fear of them, we would not have civilized... We would still be animals, so first I suggest we analyze the origin, of the power of god(s). I think, I will just contribute that to this discussion. The power of God(s) exist or has existed, to get us in this position in time, to be ignorant enough to question whether or whether not god exists. 🤷‍♂️

Seems without the God(s) we would not be asking about the God(s)

Intelligent enough?

a reply to: Bicent

Seems without the God(s) we would not be asking about the God(s)

There is a difference between the idea of something and an actual something. Because we created the idea of gods, it does not mean they are real.

Now, don't you dare try to pull that "What the Bleep do we know" crap.

a reply to: Phage

I can answer those statements with one statement, that made them real. The thing we call the mind, that organ we still, do not fully understand..

“Mind over matter.”

I understand your point, thou, without a keyboard I don’t want to expand on my beliefs in the origins of life, and how we perceive our existence and origin, but in a nut shell my point is more than likely there is some form of God. This is not our technology we exist in you know.

a reply to: Bicent

Now, don't you dare try to pull that "What the Bleep do we know" crap.

a reply to: Phage

Lol just no... 😛

a reply to: Bicent

“Mind over matter.”

That is the basis of that stupid movie. That we create our own reality. And they try (and fail) to use quantum mechanics to prove it. It's nonsense.

but in a nut shell my point is more than likely there is some form of God.

You said we invented them. I agree. That does not mean they exist.