Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

From Itisnowagain posted on Jan, 17 2021 @ 10:33 PM

a reply to: Pachomius


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(From Pachomius) With all due respect to your brain/mind, you guys keep on and on and on getting diffuse with introducing new but useless and disabling clear honest intelligent productive thinking.
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How does your concept of God help?
How useful is it?

Here is my latest concept of God:

Pachomius posted on Jan, 16 2021 @ 12:54 PM
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And at this point in time I have come to the certainty that God exists and I define Him as follows:

God in concept is the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.



My most recent addition to the concept of God, is that God is existence itself.

There, that should start the heart of atheists and traditional theists palpitating - hahaha.

You ask me, dear Itisnowagain:

How does your concept of God help?
How useful is it?

My concept of God makes me feel great that there is God, and this concept of God for me explains my existence and the existence of everything else that is not God Himself.

I say that God and existence are identical, because God contains all existence in Himself, He is the container and the content, but among His content are all kinds and manners of transient entities including myself, and He is the one Who created them scil. all transient beings.

That makes me feel superior to scientists who do not know God and are still searching for the theory of everything.

My God is what I call the God of reason, and not the God of religion – but the God of religion in the three monotheistic faiths of Christianism, Islamism, and Judaism, they have as their fundamentals the God of reason, except that they want to also make God as their sugar daddy. Hahaha.
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From existence to the existence of God, my present concern.
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This message is addressed to all posters here who are of the mind that God does not exist.

So, tell me your exposition on the plea God does not exist.

Of course you will reply to me that you don't allege any claim, so you don't have the burden to prove anything at all.

Now, that is where you are not keen to stick to the issue, God exists or not: for since your contention is God does not exist, at least if anything else, you owe yourselves and all mankind to explain how you come to your position that God does not exist, otherwise you are into a negative claim of sorts without any rational grounding at all.

And that is not conducting yourselves as homo sapiens i.e. rational animals.


Do you comprehend my thought?

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a reply to: Pachomius

That makes me feel superior to scientists who do not know God and are still searching for the theory of everything.

Do you 'know' God?
Or
do you know 'what' God is? That is the real question.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
Itisnowagain posted on Jan, 18 2021 @ 06:15 PM
a reply to: Pachomius
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(From Pachomius) That makes me feel superior to scientists who do not know God and are still searching for the theory of everything.

(From Itisnowagain) Do you 'know' God? Or do you know 'what' God is? That is the real question.

Yes, dear Itisnowagain, Yes, I do know God, and He is the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.

Can you comprehend my words?

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a reply to: Pachomius

Of course god exists anything that effects the world around us exists. And like it or not god had a huge impact on our society. It was the basis of laws and well you could argue civilization because even the sumarians believed in gods.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: Pachomius

Of course god exists anything that effects the world around us exists. And like it or not god had a huge impact on our society. It was the basis of laws and well you could argue civilization because even the sumarians believed in gods.

Dear dragonridr, I am so glad you got me correctly.
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For all mankind, this is what I call the argument for God existing from the factual existence of transient beings like us humans, we are transient because we have a beginning at birth and an ending at death.

Wherefore it follows that God exists as the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient with a beginning.
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a reply to: Pachomius
What brought you to the conclusion that there is a permanent entity?

The only thing you can be completely sure of is that you are (you exist)........but there could be a misidentification occuring.

Just checking in. Anybody ever come up with a working definition of "god" yet that doesn't contain any internal contradictions or paradoxes? Good luck.

a reply to: Blue Shift
That Thou Art.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Just checking in. Anybody ever come up with a working definition of "god" yet that doesn't contain any internal contradictions or paradoxes? Good luck.

Here, God in concept is the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient with a beginning.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

a reply to: Pachomius
What brought you to the conclusion that there is a permanent entity?

The only thing you can be completely sure of is that you are (you exist)........but there could be a misidentification occuring.

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edit on 19-1-2021 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

From the existence of transient beings i.e. things with a beginning and an ending, I am certain that there exists at least one permanent self-existent being, because transient beings necessarily implicate the existence of at least one permanent self-existent being.

Now, in regard to my existence, I am also certain that I exist because I hurt when I should bang my nose accidentally against a concrete wall, and also because I eat and I defecate and urinate.

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How to explain that from the existence of beings which have a beginning and an ending, like with us humans, we have a beginning at birth and an ending at death, there has got to exist a being that is permanent and is self-existent:

1. We exist that is a fact that is certain from our each one's EXPERIENCE of existence, like when we bang our nose against a concrete wall, we get hurt; and when we continue to bang our nose against a concrete wall and harder and harder, we get to extinguish our life existence by suicide.

2. Our existence is what I call transient existence.

3. The fact of our transient existence NECESSARILY AND ULTIMATELY implicates the existence of another being that is permanent in existence and self-existent.

4. Therefore, there exists in reality a being that is permanent and self-existent that causes the existence of man.

5. And I call that cause God, in concept as the permanent self-existent creator of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.

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Please present your comments.


N.B. Please take notice that when you make comments, you commit yourselves to define the words you use in your comments, as need be from my part as the exponent of in effect the thesis, "From the Existence of Man to the Existence of God."
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a reply to: Pachomius
Have you noticed that thoughts and sensations are constantly changing?

Thoughts and sensations are appearing and disappearing constantly.

What appears is transient.

How can it be known that thoughts come and go if there is not a permanent observer?

The permanent observer never appears and is unchanging......That Thou Art.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

From Itisnowagain posted on Jan, 20 2021 @ 06:38 PM
a reply to: Pachomius
(From Itisnowagain) Have you noticed that thoughts and sensations are constantly changing?

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(From Itisnowagain) Thoughts and sensations are appearing and disappearing constantly. What appears is transient. How can it be known that thoughts come and go if there is not a permanent observer? The permanent observer never appears and is unchanging......That Thou Art.

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edit on 20-1-2021 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Dear Itisnowagain, you say: "The permanent observer never appears and is unchanging......That Thou Art."

Please be definite, what do you mean by "never appears"?

You see, the word to appear can be taken as to come to existence, or to be into the mere illusion of being present but with no objective concrete existence independently of the say hallucinating observer.

Please specify.

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originally posted by: Pachomius
a reply to: Itisnowagain

From Itisnowagain posted on Jan, 20 2021 @ 06:38 PM
a reply to: Pachomius
(From Itisnowagain) Have you noticed that thoughts and sensations are constantly changing?

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(From Itisnowagain) Thoughts and sensations are appearing and disappearing constantly. What appears is transient. How can it be known that thoughts come and go if there is not a permanent observer? The permanent observer never appears and is unchanging......That Thou Art.

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edit on 20-1-2021 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Dear Itisnowagain, you say: "The permanent observer never appears and is unchanging......That Thou Art."

Please be definite, what do you mean by "never appears"?

You see, the word to appear can be taken as to come to existence, or to be into the mere illusion of being present but with no objective concrete existence independently of the say hallucinating observer.

Please specify.

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These words are appearing........what is seeing them does not appear.

Those hands, those legs.....those sounds are all appearing as reality.

But what is seeing never appears......because it is seeing, so is never is seen.

"Mooji ♥ Answers ◦ Can the Seer Be Seen?"


Saint Francis of Assisi supposedly said:
"What is looked for is what is looking."

"Seek the seeker". Ramana Maharshi.

a reply to: Pachomius
Existence is what is outstanding.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Pachomius
Existence is what is outstanding.

Did you hear about the very excellent farmer ?

Yeah : he was out standing in his field...




Oh : love the "That Thou Art." !!

"Words are wise men's playthings."

If anyone:

1. is fed up with all the word games played here by those who want to define the ineffable Infinite in human-based words and then, when no one can achieve this impossible task, wrongly conclude that this is evidence that no God exists;
2. would like to encounter evidence for God as the only possible reason for the recently discovered isomorphism between certain sacred geometries in the mystical traditions of the world's religions;
3. believes that the rigorous logic of mathematics, rather than the sloppiness and ambiguity of human language, will more likely reveal the existence of God as the first cause of all things,

then let themselves visit
smphillips.mysite.com...
and explore the newly-discovered, remarkable isomorphisms between sacred geometries separated in space by thousands of miles and in time by thousands of years.

Then let themselves ask how such detailed congruities could exist at all unless highly evolved, human beings of these religions had discovered the intrinsic cosmic blueprint of the Mind of God and expressed it in the symbology and language of their own religion. If no conventional or even logical reason exists for these isomorphisms, there is no honest response to the lack of any rational explanation for them other than to accept that here at last is real, irrefutable (because of its mathematical nature) evidence of a transcendental level of reality that religions call "God."

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Dear Itisnowagain: Can you just stick to the object world where when you bang your nose against a concrete wall, you will get hurt, and when you continue banging harder and harder, you will extinguish your biological existence, and reduce yourself into chemical elements and compounds - no more of you in existence at all.

So, please already avoid bringing in what to my observation your penchant for illusion, by which you are into like injecting yourself with some feel good euphoria fluid, in that for you everything after all it's just illusion.

And forgive me, I do not read whatever authorities you bring up of holy men in your what? religious culture, just talk like you do know that you are concerned with not getting infected with Covid-19 virus, no matter it is all illusion with you.
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a reply to: micpsi


Thanks micpsi for your contribution to my thread on "Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not."

What do you think about my present concern, that from the fact of our transient existence we can and do come to the fact that God exists, in concept as the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.

Take notice, from fact to fact - not from nonsense self-gratifying brain proposition to infinite nonsense causal regress (corny) - all inside my adversaries' murky brain matter.

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