Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

What's the objective? The ultimate accomplishment on Earth in today's society?

I believe it's the development and fulfillment of our soul. It is so beautiful it cannot be contrived with words or mathematics... and instead is a surprise waiting for anyone for searches for it.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

What's the objective? The ultimate accomplishment on Earth in today's society?

I believe it's the development and fulfillment of our soul. It is so beautiful it cannot be contrived with words or mathematics... and instead is a surprise waiting for anyone for searches for it.

I like how you didn't say anything about curing cancer, or efficient renewable energy to replace fossil fuels, or making sure everybody in the world has food & heat for the winter or establishing permanent peace between palestine and israel, or even a vaccine for every strain of covid-19. The soul is more important than all those things?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

I like how you didn't say anything about curing cancer, or efficient renewable energy to replace fossil fuels, or making sure everybody in the world has food & heat for the winter or establishing permanent peace between palestine and israel, or even a vaccine for every strain of covid-19. The soul is more important than all those things?

why is your purpose of life to avoid death? So silly. The same science that you adore and idolize is the reason for the pollution we see throughout the world. Life's purpose, from what I've discerned, partially involves resuming a more natural lifestyle that would not be a tumorous existence to the earth.

Dear everyone here, what do you think about my explanation on how I know for a certainty that God exists?

I am not lost, I have a concept of God:
"God in concept is the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning."

And I know what is existence, and also that I am a transient being, meaning I have a beginning and an ending.

And now here is my certainty that God exists, namely:
From the fact that I am a transient being, it follows that God exists, in concept as the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.

There!

What do you guys here say about my certainty of God's existence?
.

See what you anyone can say against these thoughts from my honest intelligent productive thinking:

1. Existence is an isolated system, nothing can get in and nothing can get out.

2. Within this isolated system of existence there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and several transient entities, for examples, humans - they are transient because they have a beginning at birth and an ending at death.

3. It is a fact and a truth that we humans exist.

4. It follows from num 3 that God exists, in concept as the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.
.

Okay, dear everyone, work on your comments, and I will read them and reply to you.

.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Does that come out of the box where God doesn't do science?

a reply to: Pachomius
Look from where you are seeing from.

Everything that appears is transient.... including thoughts and sensations.

Is the awareness (the seeingness/knowingness) that is aware of the transient, transient?

God is all knowing.

Saint Francis of Assisi supposedly said "We are looking for what is looking".
Or
The One you are looking for is the One who is looking.
Or
What you are looking for is where you are looking from.

The truth is that you already are what you are seeking. You are looking for God with his eyes. I suggest you ask, ‘What’s ultimately behind this set of eyes?’ Turn around to see what is looking.
-Adyashanti

There are many versions of the same here:
www.thymindoman.com...

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Pachomius
Look from where you are seeing from.

Everything that appears is transient.... including thoughts and sensations.

Is the awareness (the seeingness/knowingness) that is aware of the transient, transient?

God is all knowing.

Saint Francis of Assisi supposedly said "We are looking for what is looking".
Or
The One you are looking for is the One who is looking.
Or
What you are looking for is where you are looking from.

The truth is that you already are what you are seeking. You are looking for God with his eyes. I suggest you ask, ‘What’s ultimately behind this set of eyes?’ Turn around to see what is looking.
-Adyashanti

There are many versions of the same here:
www.thymindoman.com...

Dear Itisnowagain, you seem to be saying that transient beings like you and me, we are just illusion?

I beg to disagree, transient existence is as real as the existence of God, even though He created us and keeps us in operation, otherwise why do we bother with being concerned that we don't get infected with the Covid virus?

Of course your attachment to the illusion attitude is so that you will not feel so bad when you do get infected with the Covid virus, but I am certain you will want to get to the nearest hospital and soonest, to get your lungs linked to a ventilator.
.

Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue whether atheists bash religion in an attempt at self-aggrandizement.

They are against the idea in their head about religion.

a reply to: Pachomius

I think he is referring to the "I Am"... the pure consciousness which has no descriptors attached to it. The pure flow of existence. I think this is why we have no writings from Jesus, because writing is insufficient to encapsulate the entirety of the Truth. It is fluid yet consistent like a river that is always flowing but remains as the same river

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

I like how you didn't say anything about curing cancer, or efficient renewable energy to replace fossil fuels, or making sure everybody in the world has food & heat for the winter or establishing permanent peace between palestine and israel, or even a vaccine for every strain of covid-19. The soul is more important than all those things?

why is your purpose of life to avoid death? So silly. The same science that you adore and idolize is the reason for the pollution we see throughout the world. Life's purpose, from what I've discerned, partially involves resuming a more natural lifestyle that would not be a tumorous existence to the earth.

Any purpose in life that actively pursues death isn't much of a purpose. What sort of natural lifestyle are you referring to and how is that accomplished?

a reply to: TzarChasm

Our society unfortunately is controlled and manipulated by industrialists and technocrats. The vast majority of our problems are the result of a tiny minority of our species and their greed. As an example a devout Christian life would be much more harmonious with nature and provide a more sustainable future over our current path predicated on science and technology.

Suckerberg and Bezos and their consolidation of power as an example to me are more a danger to our way of life than say the Amish community.

originally posted by: Pachomius
See what you anyone can say against these thoughts from my honest intelligent productive thinking:

1. Existence is an isolated system, nothing can get in and nothing can get out.

2. Within this isolated system of existence there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and several transient entities, for examples, humans - they are transient because they have a beginning at birth and an ending at death.

3. It is a fact and a truth that we humans exist.

4. It follows from num 3 that God exists, in concept as the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.
.

Okay, dear everyone, work on your comments, and I will read them and reply to you.

.

1 You need to define "existence" better. "Everything that exists" isn't a reliable definition as there is also heaven, hell, and whatever dimensional sandtrap ghosts keep getting stuck in, for example. The assertion that god can function outside of the universe also suggests that it is not a closed system. If there is an "outside of spacetime" that is by definition outside of existence.

2 is untrue. There is no structure or lifeform that sustains forever.

3 is accurate.

4 is a presumption and non sequitur.

a reply to: TzarChasm

I call that magical thinking by which I mean it's illogical.

a reply to: TzarChasm
I would define existence as that which appears to exist.
These words are appearing as existence. Whatever you are seeing or hearing, tasting and feeling is existence......basically all that appears. Whereas 'spacetime' and 'hell' are just concepts....stories.

The stories are existence, the words, but not what they speak of.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: TzarChasm

I call that magical thinking by which I mean it's illogical.

Yes, that's typical of theological reasoning.

a reply to: TzarChasm

I don't rely on opinions of other people when it comes to God.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
a reply to: TzarChasm

I don't rely on opinions of other people when it comes to God.

It's funny because the topic of God is generally dependent on people sharing opinions in group discussion. But apparently that's not what you are here for.

See what you anyone can say against these thoughts from my honest intelligent productive thinking:

1. Existence is an isolated system, nothing can get in and nothing can get out.

2. Within this isolated system of existence there is at least one permanent self-existent entity, and several transient entities, for examples, humans - they are transient because they have a beginning at birth and an ending at death.

3. It is a fact and a truth that we humans exist.

4. It follows from num 3 that God exists, in concept as the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.
.

Okay, dear everyone, work on your comments, and I will read them and reply to you.

--------------------------


1. Existence is an isolated system, nothing can get in and nothing can get out.

By existence I mean anything at all about which man can and does talk about, for examples: the nose on our face, God, dreams, Covid-19, thoughts, sphinx, dreams, anything at all, whether it is just in our brain/mind or outside.
.

From the existence of man who is a transient being, i.e. with a beginning at birth and an end at death, it follows that God exists, in concept as the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.

.