Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

originally posted by: Pachomius

originally posted by: Pachomius

Well, I meet with atheists who ascribe to all kinds of what I see to be irrational thinking if it is any thinking at all.

You see, my impression is that atheists are into to their core evasions of all kinds from the issue itself of God exists or not.

For example, they resort to concepts of God like that God is similar to an orbiting teapot in space (Bertrand Russell), and they following the idol of theirs, by calling God a flying spaghetti monster, an invisible pink unicorn, tooth fairy, etc.


From Tzar
Okay but that doesn't explain why you are still fixated on this topic after 150 pages of dialogue and zero progress, what are you trying to achieve aside from completely wasting your time?

----------------------

Because I am still into learning from others who are more honest intelligent and productive than myself.

Okay, Tzar, teach me something in less than 100 words, and I will see whether you have something worth my labor and time and brain matter to assimilate, okay?

What have you learned after everything discussed in your thread?

Reality isn't man made but I can do science, therefore God exists.

Lost you there.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Pachomius

originally posted by: Pachomius

Well, I meet with atheists who ascribe to all kinds of what I see to be irrational thinking if it is any thinking at all.

You see, my impression is that atheists are into to their core evasions of all kinds from the issue itself of God exists or not.

For example, they resort to concepts of God like that God is similar to an orbiting teapot in space (Bertrand Russell), and they following the idol of theirs, by calling God a flying spaghetti monster, an invisible pink unicorn, tooth fairy, etc.


From Tzar
Okay but that doesn't explain why you are still fixated on this topic after 150 pages of dialogue and zero progress, what are you trying to achieve aside from completely wasting your time?

----------------------

Because I am still into learning from others who are more honest intelligent and productive than myself.

Okay, Tzar, teach me something in less than 100 words, and I will see whether you have something worth my labor and time and brain matter to assimilate, okay?

What have you learned after everything discussed in your thread?

"What have you learned after everything discussed in your thread? -Tzar

_______________________
edit on 2-1-2021 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)

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I started with God in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

Now my concept of God is the following: God in concept is the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.

What about you, have you learned something from this my thread on:
"Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not."

.

First and before everything else, I now know that God is equivalent to existence, that is num 1 in my listing of facts and truths.

1. God is equivalent to existence.
2. God as existence is the isolated system, nothing can get out of or get in into existence.
3. Inside existence there are transient systems of all kinds, they all get their existence from God.

So, what are your comments, everyone?

originally posted by: Pachomius

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Pachomius

originally posted by: Pachomius

Well, I meet with atheists who ascribe to all kinds of what I see to be irrational thinking if it is any thinking at all.

You see, my impression is that atheists are into to their core evasions of all kinds from the issue itself of God exists or not.

For example, they resort to concepts of God like that God is similar to an orbiting teapot in space (Bertrand Russell), and they following the idol of theirs, by calling God a flying spaghetti monster, an invisible pink unicorn, tooth fairy, etc.


From Tzar
Okay but that doesn't explain why you are still fixated on this topic after 150 pages of dialogue and zero progress, what are you trying to achieve aside from completely wasting your time?

----------------------

Because I am still into learning from others who are more honest intelligent and productive than myself.

Okay, Tzar, teach me something in less than 100 words, and I will see whether you have something worth my labor and time and brain matter to assimilate, okay?

What have you learned after everything discussed in your thread?

"What have you learned after everything discussed in your thread? -Tzar

_______________________
edit on 2-1-2021 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)

---------------------


I started with God in concept as the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

Now my concept of God is the following: God in concept is the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.

What about you, have you learned something from this my thread on:
"Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not."

.

If by learning, you mean I expanded my knowledge with useful data or mastered a skill or trade, then no. If by learning you mean messing around on a conspiracy message board because it's easy and I'm bored, then yes. I learned we have been stuck inside way too long.

a reply to: Pachomius
Watch "Defining God by Swami Sarvapriyananda"

a reply to: Itisnowagain

How about posting about it in an intelligent way?

Or would that take effort, and result in challenging debate?

a reply to: neutronflux
If you are interested then you can watch and listen.

If you are not then don't

It is a hour long.......and one comment says listen to it at least 3 times for complete understanding.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux
If you are interested then you can watch and listen.

If you are not then don't

It is a hour long.......and one comment says listen to it at least 3 times for complete understanding.

So, nothing worthy of quoting or citing. Got it.

a reply to: notquiteright

I think your point is firmly an argument against God. The condoning of slavery for example; this wasn't rectified in the NT, in fact they doubled down.

The fact we understand acts like slavery are now wrong isn't because of the Bible, but because our understanding of human wellbeing and suffering has evolved.

I guess that's the problem with "infallible" religions who profess to already have all the answers. When we evolve beyond certain practices, these religions are unable to evolve with us and the knowledge they claim to have becomes outdated. Their texts will always be "of the time" they were authored.

Is there a God? I'm yet to be convinced, but if there is it'll be a being/force not currently defined by any man.

Day by day

To find your peace

With freedom

To find some proof of God, I go along the lines of:

Do morals exist?
I tend to believe yes, there is a morally good and morally bad

So, if Morals exist, who judges the moral good and moral bad? Who is the moral authority?
That moral authority is God.

With that in mind, I would say the universe in general is made up of feelings and action.
Feelings drive us to move through time, actions drive us to move through space.

As various physical entities interact with each other they can only go and act with how they feel, having no realization of morality. Meaning, a shark primarily interacts in a morally bad way, with no real feelings (introspection). A plant mostly interacts in a morally good way, with no real action (don't move very fast).

The uniqueness of mankind is that we have a consciousness, allowing us to change our response based on morals. This is how we became god like, as referenced in the bible.

the 10 sec version, feeling is gravity/thermodynamic based and action is light/electricity based.
When those two waves cross each other at matching frequencies/wavelengths, we experience reality, which is mapped into the blank spaces in our brains and the wave lengths/frequencies modulated by changing temp/pressure/density.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
Reality isn't man made but I can do science, therefore God exists.

Lost you there.

What about this text from me:

---------------------------
Existence is an isolated system, nothing can get out and nothing can get in.
Inside existence there is at least one permanent self-existent entity and several transient entities.
Therefore: God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.
--------------------------

.

originally posted by: carlncarl
To find some proof of God, I go along the lines of:

Do morals exist?
I tend to believe yes, there is a morally good and morally bad

So, if Morals exist, who judges the moral good and moral bad? Who is the moral authority?
That moral authority is God.

With that in mind, I would say the universe in general is made up of feelings and action.
Feelings drive us to move through time, actions drive us to move through space.

As various physical entities interact with each other they can only go and act with how they feel, having no realization of morality. Meaning, a shark primarily interacts in a morally bad way, with no real feelings (introspection). A plant mostly interacts in a morally good way, with no real action (don't move very fast).

The uniqueness of mankind is that we have a consciousness, allowing us to change our response based on morals. This is how we became god like, as referenced in the bible.

the 10 sec version, feeling is gravity/thermodynamic based and action is light/electricity based.
When those two waves cross each other at matching frequencies/wavelengths, we experience reality, which is mapped into the blank spaces in our brains and the wave lengths/frequencies modulated by changing temp/pressure/density.

Your text above is not the absolutely big complete picture of reality.

Try this what to me is the absolutely big complete picture of reality:

--------------------------------
Existence is an isolated system, nothing can get out and nothing can get in.
Inside existence there is at least one permanent self-existent entity and several transient entities.
Therefore: God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.
--------------------------------

.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Pachomius
Watch "Defining God by Swami Sarvapriyananda"

Forgive me, dear Itisnowagain, I don't ascribe to your swami authorities, because I also have my own brain/mind, and modestly aside I could think more honestly more intelligently and more productively than swami folks who get their ideas with meditation which is not into thinking at all.

Try this text from me:

---------------------------
Existence is an isolated system, nothing can get out and nothing can get in.
Inside existence there is at least one permanent self-existent entity and several transient entities.
Therefore: God exists in concept as the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything transient and with a beginning.
--------------------------
.

a reply to: Pachomius

I would say that we are in total agreement, I would only add that concept of morals is a self existent entity, which can only exist with a moral authority, which is God.

I picture, as you do a closed system.
I see the beginning of the experienced universe, or reality as occurring from the separation of infinity into finite elements, propelled towards infinity by remixing them.

On one side, there is infinite feeling and action, that is our side.
On one side, there is infinite time and space, that is the God side.

On our side, we begin with a time and point, which continues to expand towards infinity.
This expansion provides the gravitational and electrical fields that intersect to provide markers in time/space, which can then be mapped into our brain space, which are then activated when matched, allowing us to experience reality.

On the God side, there is a beginning of feeling and action, which continues to expand towards infinity.
This expansion provides the time and space fields that intersect to provide markers in feel/action, which can be mapped, as a negative into our brain non-space, when are then activated when matched, allowing us to propel through reality.

Not sure how clear that one is coming out.

a reply to: Pachomius

I think the existence of God is self-evident.

a reply to: Pachomius
Do you want words and descriptions (concepts) of God?
Presently you have an idea of what God is.

Wouldn't you like to actually experience God?

No amount of thinking will reveal God.

It seems like God is not understood among human understanding.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
It seems like God is not understood among human understanding.

The peace of God transcends all understanding.