Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

a reply to: Willtell
a reply to: Willtell

Thanks Willtell for your contributions.

I guess we two can get started by accepting that we both have existence, and that sooner than later we both will lose existence when we die.

But existence is still around, it is never ever going to cease existing.

So, there are two kinds of things in existence: (a) at least one thing that will always be existing, it is permanent, (b) all other things not permanent because they will cease existing eventually but certainly, they are thus transient, for examples, humans like you and me.

What do you say about my text above?

.

a reply to: Pachomius
What is occuring is existence....... this, always just this.

No separate things......just thoughts and concepts occur that make believe that there is other than just what is occuring.

Life is apparently happening.

No thing separate is happening.

It is good news.....there is no one to save!!!

Where is God when He doesn't seem to exist?

a reply to: Out6of9Balance
Where are you??

a reply to: Itisnowagain


Dear Itisnowagain, are you saying seriously that everything is just man's illusion, and only God exists?

You can't be serious because you according to your illusion idea you are only an illusion, but who is harboring the illusion, you yourself? Don't include me and the rest of posters here in ATS!

You and I we exist, we are not illusion, that is a most counterproductive unrealistic idea, all ideas by which mankind like you take mankind itself to be an illusion, that means that you are not writing messages here in ATS - so we need not bother to read you at all!

Number 1 premise for mankind to be certainly sure about is that man exists, that means you and me and everyone writing here in ATS.

Anyway, tell me, dear Itisnowagain, what is the advantage to you with this idea that you are just an illusion, does it dispense you from having a life which means you must work to achieve a full life prior to death?

That is what I think is a constant obsession with humans who want to see life as all illusion, because then they need not feel any challenge to work to have a life at all, life with all its trials but also joys, until death at which time man can congratulate himself for having lived a fulfilling life, instead of having achieved nothing but being loaded with an illusion.

What a waste!

And you are propagating such an attitude, that is indeed most suicide-ly destructive of yourself, but don't include all us here working to get to know the object world by developing concepts in our concept world, and thus get to know more and more about existence.

.

originally posted by: Out6of9Balance
Where is God when He doesn't seem to exist?

God is everywhere and all the time, because you are around that is the evidence for God existing, since God is the permanent self-existent creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

Or you want to insist that you are not sure at all that you exist?

Here, try this experiment, bang your nose hard against a concrete wall until it hurts and your nose is all bloody - there, does that ascertain to you that you exist?

Next, since you are a transient being, not a permanent being like God, you need God to have created you and keep you around having and doing a life.

You still doubt your own existence?

Then bang your nose even harder until you lose consciousness, there at this point you are temporally off existence, and hope some good folks are around to bring you to the emergency ward of the nearest hospital, to get you to come back to consciousness, okay?

That consciousness business, it is very crucially important to man, because in effect consciousness is equivalent to human existence, so that every time you are not conscious you are into temporary non-existence, and when you do not return to consciousness, that is already effective death i.e. non-existence.

We take consciousness for granted but it is essentially man's existence - life without consciousness for man is similar to man in a vegetative status.

That is not any kind of human existence, at most it is more like a robotic mode of existence.

.

a reply to: Pachomius

If we do not receive information via our senses, then we can't know that something exists or not.
However, it is irrational to believe that nothing exists outside of our senses.
I suppose that might be a third category of "God" but that's purely speculative. Perhaps Mystery or Unknown might be more accurate.

The five senses are not there to perceive reality, but to create the appearance of it.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
"The five senses are not there to perceive reality, but to create the appearance of it." -Itisnowagain



Dear Itisnowagain, I really cannot comprehend your statement above, except to say that you are not talking reality but some kind of what?

The thing that comes closest to my what makes sense with you, in that statement, is like metaphorically you mean that we must not trust our senses?

Tell me, dear Itisnowagain, how do you determine when you are in a scientific experiment to explore how the Covid-19 virus infects you, and you are the subject to expose yourself to patients who are already under treatment for Covid-19 infection, and they are instructed to cough into your nostrils, and they do actually cough into your nostrils, will you tell yourself that with your senses intact, and you are already suffering extreme difficulty with breathing, that it is all appearances which your senses create?


Dear fellow posters here, what do you say?

.

a reply to: Pachomius

I think the fact that you can ASK for honest intelligent
productive thinking. And then RECIEVE it in this long
standing post. Pretty much resolves the issue out right
and indeed.

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: Pachomius

I think the fact that you can ASK for honest intelligent
productive thinking. And then RECIEVE it in this long
standing post. Pretty much resolves the issue out right
and indeed.

With no intention to offend, it could be that Itisnowagain is into some kind of cognitive dissonance.

.

Read "Proof of Heaven" by Eben Alexander.

There is one, common thread to most religions.

There is one God.

Also, there are an unknown number of dimensions. These are all of our playgrounds.

Fred..

Who wants to know what?

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
Read "Proof of Heaven" by Eben Alexander.

There is one, common thread to most religions.

There is one God.

Also, there are an unknown number of dimensions. These are all of our playgrounds.

Fred..

Dear fredrodgers1960, I have proposed that we all do our very own thinking and writing.

But if you have adopted someone's else thought, because it adds to your database of ideas, then just present it with the note that you got it from someone else, and you see it to be profitable to you and everyone else.

No need to mention the name of your source person, in that way we all will save time and trouble arguing among ourselves what is the exact thought of your source, for you might be mistaken with what he really is saying at all.

That means we will not get mired i.e. stuck in mud with any useless debate over an authority's exact and correct words.

We all are as good as anyone else supposedly an 'authority'.

Ideas are solid and profitable in themselves or they fall by themselves, all we have to do is exercise honest intelligent productive thinking on them, to determine their worth.

.

a reply to: Pachomius

My belief is that everything is God.

Nothing can exist but God.

Creation is an illusion


If you say something exists or God created it, then from what did he create it from? Existing material or something he created. Created it from nothing?

Where did he get the material to create anything?

Ultimately, even creation is an illusion


Most likely everything that exists has always existed

Development and consciousness are more important IMO.

a reply to: Pachomius

So, there are two kinds of things in existence: (a) at least one thing that will always be existing, it is permanent, (b) all other things not permanent because they will cease existing eventually but certainly, they are thus transient, for examples, humans like you and me.

Use my car analogy.

The car is a temporary creation the materials that make it up are permanent.

So your ideas have great have merit, IMO

We are living in a time where the Bible convinces people God doesn't exist.

Or should I say a time where the Bible is used to prove the inexistence of God.

Go figure.

a reply to: Out6of9Balance
Haha so true and I wonder how many will appreciate the profundity of what you wrote.

a reply to: Never Despise

Thx man

a reply to: Never Despise

Thx man

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Pachomius

From Pachomius
"So, there are two kinds of things in existence: (a) at least one thing that will always be existing, it is permanent, (b) all other things not permanent because they will cease existing eventually but certainly, they are thus transient, for examples, humans like you and me."

From Willtell
Use my car analogy.

The car is a temporary creation the materials that make it up are permanent.

So your ideas have great have merit, IMO

Dear Willtell, there is no need to make an analogy on my submission, just say that you concur with me, because the words from me are clear to anyone with mastery of English.

In fact your analogy is misleading altogether, to make a good analogy you must compare you and me to another being similar to us living biological entities, not a car.

.