Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

a reply to: pthena

I think you misunderstand relativity. The missiles speed would be measured in relation to your own position so wouldn’t violate any law.

MONO




I have been all the time and with everyone trying to get us all to work together to concur on concepts and principles, in re the existence of God.

In regard to God's existence, here is the concept of God I care for that we all concur on it, namely:

God in concept is the creator cause of man and the universe and everything with a beginning.

As for principles, the No. 1 principle is as follows:

Existence is the default status of reality.


Anyway, as there are here posters who complain that I am always insisting on them to concur with me - that is not true, though,* still I will now invite everyone to present something that he cares that I concur with him on, okay?


*The fact is that I care that we all work together to concur on concepts and principles, not that I demand that you concur with me, do you see the difference?

But owing to your deficiency of honest intelligent productive thinking, you feel that I am dictating on you, that is a wrong impression, and again it is due to your own sense of deficiency in re doing honest intelligent productive thinking.

.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux
Are you here to win.....a debate?

Pachomius Is the one that started using the term “opponents”. Is that false.

So I was posting in the context set by Pachomius.

a reply to: Pachomius

Did god creat the universe and walk away?


Or are we accountable to god?

If we are not accountable to god.

Then what difference does it make what is believed. Other than your attempt to control some strange definitions.

I believe in the the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And that some day we will have to present ourselves before “the creator” of the universe. Not your silly and dogmatic definitions.

Sorry.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Nothin

What would we call 'dictionary definitions' : if there were no dictionaries ?

I looked up dictionary in the wikipedia encyclopedia (what's an encyclopedia?)
so the oldest known dictionary is a bilingual Sumerian–Akkadian wordlist, dated roughly 2300 BCE. I'm sure the whole question about the gods could be answered by simply learning the Sumerian/and or the Akkadian language.

If there were no dictionaries then we wouldn't call dictionary definitions anything. "Wait! That word you just said, what does it mean?" "I don't know. Joe said it. Let's ask him." So "that thing that Joe said."

What percentageish of 'dictionary definitions' , and 'words' : might be made-up ?

There are a few Onomatopoeia words derived from real sounds. As for percentage, I don't know, but probably low. The rest are made up.

Might honest intelligent productive thinking people : make-up dictionaries ?

They might. I just watched a youtube posted on another thread that explained the process. But liars may also coin words that sound like they could be truthish in order to deceive.

What's the difference between a dictionary : and a fictionary ?

The dictionary may be cited in such a way, (okay, my definition needs some work) . The fictionary is something referred to as if it existed. Okay, that proposed definition just exploded too after I picked up a pen and wrote "This is a fictionary" on a piece of paper. This is getting tough.

Why all of the questions ?

Because questions stimulate thought, which clarifies ideas, which leads to clarity of concepts witch[sic] ends all confusion. (I am so confused that I don't know what the hell that sentence means. I shall add that to my new fictionary.)

Why not ?

I don't know.

Perhaps we're closer to "That thing that Joe said", than "learning the Sumerian/and or the Akkadian language" ?
But excellent idea for sure.
Are our scholars and thread-members researching this presently ?

We have Acadiens here in eastern Canada. Many of them were chased-away, and settled to become the Louisiana Cajuns.
They're awesome, but probably rather not too much like the Akkadians, maybe ?

"That thing that Joe said" : sounds about where we are.
Which witch do you like better ' Consensual Joe Reality™ ' ; or ' Joe Consensual Reality™ ' ?

Onomatopoeia : yeah, exactly the exceptions was thinking about !
Your kindergarten teacher may very well have been right, when she said that were about 2% smarter than you looked...

So if most of our words and expressions are just made-up : why do folks get so upset when we make-up new words, or bend definitions ?

Are words and languages not similar to living things : they are born, get stronger, get weaker, dissipate into nothingness ?
Some are coined to deceive as you said, and are not euphemisms used to confuse us about wicked intentions ?

How silly are we : to think that we can use these ephemeral, passing, fleeting, impermanent, temporary words: to describe the "Indescribable" ?

Fictionary, dictionary : are they really that different ?

Ever think that another may clue-in, to what we've been suggesting for over a hundred pages ?

Well : to be fair ; perhaps a few have, but they often seem to only post once or twice, before they go-away because of some of the 'arguing' ?

When we believe in the sanctity and permanence of words : do we risk getting bewitched by witchy concepts ?


Personally don't believe any of the above : but it was fun to think about !!

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

You

You're not allowed to believe in God. People don't like the imaginations around it.

Are you implying I ever posted such a thing?

Please cite and quote the post.

So. More blatant falsehoods by you. Surprise.

Again.

You don’t need evidence of god to believe. In fact those that believe with faith are blessed. Is that false.

And if you have faith in God, you should have a personal relationship with God. And be able to testify personally about God. Not some general concept of god, equating the creator of the universe something equal to a private contract offering no warranty in a build and walking away.

And I don’t care if you have faith in god, gods, or have faith there is no god. It’s a personal thing.

However, the title of thread is “ Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.”

What is your proof god created matter out of nothing to create the universe. Vs matter has always existed in various states of flux?

a reply to: Nothin

So if most of our words and expressions are just made-up : why do folks get so upset when we make-up new words, or bend definitions ?

The youtube video that I watched had to do with technical scientific words. They are peer reviewed, board approved, then entered into technical lexicons so that other people in those technical fields and cutting edge theoretical fields have something in common with which to work.

Then some fraudster comes along and spins out a sciencey sounding word in order to pretend that science backs up the outlandish notion that he's pushing upon a credulous audience.

=============
So just a few hours ago I took a nap. And as I slept, I couldn't help but think about the Universe expanding at an accelerating rate. Theoreticians theorize that there must be dark matter and dark energy to account for this. That's why the concept of dark matter and dark energy are in the lexicon in the first place. No accelerating of Universe expansion, no dark matter or dark energy hypothesized to account for it.

But if time is not constant, and if time slows proportional to the magnitude of gravity, then the further apart that gravity wells are to one another, then the faster the time is going in relation to one mass body with respect to the other. If velocity from the big bang is constant, but time is variable by distance of one mass to another, then the further they get from each other, the faster they go away from each other.

And there, for all to see, is the acceleration of the expansion of the Universe without making up dark matter and dark energy.

To summarize: Original velocity from big bang is constant. Time is variable. The speeding of time variable increases while velocity ratio remains constant, therefore the acceleration ratio increases.
================

Ever think that another may clue-in, to what we've been suggesting for over a hundred pages ?

Maybe.

There is this whole sad life story that I'm thinking about. Too long to post here. I'll think about it.

a reply to: pthena

Are you suggesting some kind of fancy parallel : between how 'Science' managed to give some supposed legitimacy to theories such as dark-matter, and dark-energy ; and Dear Pacho's quest to find a wordy definition of God ?

The youtube video that I watched had to do with technical scientific words. They are peer reviewed, board approved, then entered into technical lexicons so that other people in those technical fields and cutting edge theoretical fields have something in common with which to work.

Have they also invented things like : 'dark technical scientific words' ; dark 'peer reviews' ; dark 'board approuvals' ; dark 'technical lexicons' ; dark ' other technical fields' ; dark 'cutting edge theoretical fields' ; and dark 'big-bangs' ?

Perhaps a friendly 'science' expert will be along : to tell me that scientific ignorance is not an excuse, for not accepting their gospel ?

They have Formulas™ !
And Equations™ !
And Logic™ !!
And Dark Stuff™ !!!

a reply to: Nothin

Are you suggesting some kind of fancy parallel : between how 'Science' managed to give some supposed legitimacy to theories such as dark-matter, and dark-energy ; and Dear Pacho's quest to find a wordy definition of God ?

Actually, the physicists and chemists and astronomers and mathematicians have a lot going for them. The working theories actually work in actual technology and mechanics and medicine.

Astrophysics and Metaphysics on the other hand are sort of out there, like out of this World.

Definitions, words, rules of logic and debate don't create anything that a stiff drink and a night's sleep can't just as easily erase.

Now I'm getting lost in rhetoric again.

Perhaps a friendly 'science' expert will be along : to tell me that scientific ignorance is not an excuse, for not accepting their gospel ?

When I look back at how awesome 4th Grade was, learning so much, I get to thinking that if I had only stayed in 4th Grade for good then I would know everything by now.

Finding god isn't a very big deal.
People make a big deal with setting rules and parameters and abilities and functions out of words and stuff, a straw man. Then others come along and burn the strawman down.

And god is just god,
untouched by the making and the burning,
neither on one side nor the other,
ignored by both.

[ a bunch of crap was here but I decided to delete it ]

Mono



Dear Neutron:


You are my opponent, and I am your opponent: but we are not enemies.

And I care that you present ONE thing for me to concur with you on, not several things, unless your mischievous purpose is to suffocate me with several things that I have to concur with you on.

Just limit to one thing per post and let us sustain that one thing to work to concur on, upon achieving concurrence, then you present another thing.

neutronflux posted on Sep, 14 2020 @ 05:29 AM

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux
Are you here to win.....a debate?

Pachomius Is the one that started using the term “opponents”. Is that false.

So I was posting in the context set by Pachomius.

neutronflux posted on Sep, 14 2020 @ 05:33 AM
a reply to: Pachomius
- - - - - - - - - - - -


Did god creat the universe and walk away?


Or are we accountable to god?

If we are not accountable to god.

Then what difference does it make what is believed. Other than your attempt to control some strange definitions.

I believe in the the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And that some day we will have to present ourselves before “the creator” of the universe. Not your silly and dogmatic definitions.

Sorry.


= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
edit on 13-9-2020 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed

MONO




Dear Neutron, what is this I read from you:

"You don’t need evidence of god to believe."


Woe is me, all the time I was taking time and labor to get us to work together as to arrive at a mutually agreed on concept of what is evidence.


I see you to be a fundamentalist Christian aka fanatical Christian, erh frantic Christian.

neutronflux posted on Sep, 14 2020 @ 06:14 AM a reply to: Out6of9Balance
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


You

You're not allowed to believe in God. People don't like the imaginations around it.

Are you implying I ever posted such a thing?

Please cite and quote the post.

So. More blatant falsehoods by you. Surprise.

Again.

You don’t need evidence of god to believe. In fact those that believe with faith are blessed. Is that false.

And if you have faith in God, you should have a personal relationship with God. And be able to testify personally about God. Not some general concept of god, equating the creator of the universe something equal to a private contract offering no warranty in a build and walking away.

And I don’t care if you have faith in god, gods, or have faith there is no god. It’s a personal thing.

However, the title of thread is “ Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.”

What is your proof god created matter out of nothing to create the universe. Vs matter has always existed in various states of flux?

========================
edit on 13-9-2020 by neutronflux because: Added and fixed

a reply to: Pachomius

I think what he really means about not needing evidence are based on the kind of evidence you seak.

Having faith in God is based on evidence but not the kind that you seak. If you don't have faith in God you would never understand. That is why you have to ask for physical minifistation. But faith is not physical it is personal.

Since you cant physically see our faith, You ask for us to put forth what we have faith in. We have to give you God as evidence, so that we can prove to you that our faith is real and based on facts. The problem is that we dont have that power. We dont have that authority. We cant bring you someone we dont have authority over. And you know that. And that is you basline argument. And it always will be.

Why dont you ask you self this: Why dont a person of faith ever need to see God for him to know God exists.... But you do... There is a reason for it. We have something you don't. That is real and that is a fact.

If you don't have faith, you don't even know what faith is or what it is like. You have to look it up to get some sort of guidance. But you will not know what it is like to have it.

a reply to: neutronflux

If matter always existed then that would mean matter is eternal having no beginning, like God.

Since matter currently is existing in the present there's no end or no end defined and therefore is not defined eternal as time is still moving on.

I dare to state things bound by time are not eternal. Only God is eternal.

What's your proof for what you think exists?

Btw I'm not saying God created matter out of nothing.

a reply to: pthena

When I look back at how awesome 4th Grade was, learning so much, I get to thinking that if I had only stayed in 4th Grade for good then I would know everything by now.

There is a memory here :
Before emails : office jokes passed around by photocopies.
Coming home from school one day, finding this mysterious message on the bed : ( Totally paraphrasing )

"" Teenagers of the world !
Listen to this message, just for you !
Your time is now !
Leave home, and conquer the world !
Do it now !
Quick : while you still know everything ! ""

Finding god isn't a very big deal.
People make a big deal with setting rules and parameters and abilities and functions out of words and stuff, a straw man. Then others come along and burn the strawman down.

And god is just god,
untouched by the making and the burning,
neither on one side nor the other,
ignored by both.

That's pure gold !
You have beautifully, and succinctly, given another 'definition', that resonates relevance.
Well : for this point of awareness, at least ... LoL !

You answer the questions so magnificently : am always stumped ! LoL !

a reply to: Nothin

"" Teenagers of the world !
Listen to this message, just for you !
Your time is now !
Leave home, and conquer the world !
Do it now !
Quick : while you still know everything ! ""

Well my parents didn't need tricks like that.
I plagiarized some stuff out of a book on enlightenment,
made a few editorial tweaks,
and left a note for them.

Weeks later my brother told me what their reaction was.
They were incredulous that it could be a serious thing,
So he told them, "Yeah, that's pretty much how he thinks."

Any way: This isn't the designated camp fire area,
so I'll just light up this pile of cardboard.

You answer the questions so magnificently : am always stumped ! LoL !

I borrowed a thing from Michelangelo:
“The sculpture is already complete within the marble block,
before I start my work.
It is already there,
I just have to chisel away the superfluous material.”

So I just vomit up a bunch of stuff and delete away the excess.
(not really, I just wrote that 'cuz it sounded cool.)

a reply to: Out6of9Balance

If matter always existed then that would mean matter is eternal having no beginning, like God.

You mean things can have always existed. So why not the mass and energy of the universe. In a state of constant flux. I though matter and energy can be converted from one to another. Is that false.

I posted this first.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Out6of9Balance

You

You're not allowed to believe in God. People don't like the imaginations around it.

Are you implying I ever posted such a thing?

Please cite and quote the post.

So. More blatant falsehoods by you. Surprise.

Again.

You don’t need evidence of god to believe. In fact those that believe with faith are blessed. Is that false.

And if you have faith in God, you should have a personal relationship with God. And be able to testify personally about God. Not some general concept of god, equating the creator of the universe something equal to a private contract offering no warranty in a build and walking away.

And I don’t care if you have faith in god, gods, or have faith there is no god. It’s a personal thing.

However, the title of thread is “ Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.”

What is your proof god created matter out of nothing to create the universe. Vs matter has always existed in various states of flux?

———

By the way. You claim you believe in god? Yet post blatant falsehoods, or use innuendo to try to make false claims on what people post. All which are sins. Your heart is showing. And you wonder why people don’t like religious people.

a reply to: neutronflux
Is it at all possible for you to have a discussion.....without having a dig at posters?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux
Is it at all possible for you to have a discussion.....without having a dig at posters?

I don’t know. I don’t think I stated this. And I am not the one purposely posting falsehoods and using Innuendo concerning other posters.

a reply to: neutronflux
Proverbs 15:28 The heart of the godly thinks carefully before speaking; the mouth of the wicked overflows with evil words.

You state that you have faith in God.....but are you godly?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: neutronflux
8. Proverbs 15:28 The heart of the godly thinks carefully before speaking; the mouth of the wicked overflows with evil words.

You state that you have faith in God.....but are you godly?

Yeap. I have no true ill will.

But, I am no the first to use terms like “your not smart enough” in a debate first.

I am honest when I post opinion.

When I post something as fact, I try to back it up with the quoted material, and citing sources / material.

Then when persons use disingenuous/ dishonest tactics first against me, or persons post items that can be proven false, I call them out on it.

I have no will to falsely discredit honest debaters. But those that use falsehoods are going to get called out.

People have to face the traps they set for themselves when they show no grace for others.

Your post would be better directed at other people.