Wanted: Honest intelligent productive thinking to resolve the issue God exists or not.

On the assumption that mankind sincerely seeks knowledge, I submit that it is possible for any person to come to resolve the issue God exists or not, with honest intelligent productive thinking, i.e., thinking on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas. Now, honest intelligent productive thinking on the said issue must start with working together to concur on the concept of God. What do you dear colleagues here say?

[Please everyone, bear with me, I still have to re-learn how to write in ATS forum, as I used to know some over two years ago.]

a reply to: Pachomius

perhaps you may want to start the convo?

I'll give ya a shove... No one can prove the existence of God to another...

a reply to: Akragon

Well there is that 1 way . That cheat of theology . Messengers with miracles. Easily proves existence of god . Everyone watches dead man rise , or blind see , or handicap walk .. Its game over. Sign me up !~ But do we get that today ? noo.....we gotta play the pick the right cup game lol

a reply to: seedofchucky

Well... I've never heard of a Miracle happening in reality... read about plenty

and I've met many "messengers" over the years... all fake

I thought you were gonna say jump off a bridge or something... that doesn't count just so you know

I think you are asking for the impossible.

I think you'll need to define what you think God encompasses.

From my upbringing and personal philosophy, God existed before the universe began. He exists outside reality as we know it, can walk into and out of the universe the way an architect can walk in and out of a building he designed, has fundamental understanding and manipulation of the entirety of the universe because He designed it from the start, and thinks in ways beyond human comprehension.

So good luck with that.

a reply to: Pachomius

Your OP is incomplete so I am just going by your title.

I would say that if you consider the whole complexity of the universe and work backwards from there; matter/ antimatter. Who or what and why created the very first atom or molecule? Something did I believe.

There's no solution to the debate because you can't define "God" in any way that makes any logical sense.

Are you able to question whether or not you are alive?

If you are, God exists.

What that means though, is up to you.

a reply to: [post=25267716]Akragon[

i guess since no modern miracles. That must rule out god ? you know how many sick dictators went into evil overdrive , ,without the fear of knowing someone watching and taking notes and will judge them for it ! I bet they slept much easier at night .

a reply to: seedofchucky

Personally I don't rule out God... I know God exists

Though I have no way of proving it to anyone... I can't define God.

Its hard to even explain...

I suppose I could say situations and incidents in my life made it impossible for me to deny

but that's me..

Most people here think im an Atheist, unless they've read my older threads

a reply to: Akragon

Some of the gods though, eg. Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, Sun, Moon, and etc, can be pointed out to people at appropriate times.

On the other hand, it is futile to persuade flat earthers that they really exist and aren't merely images projected upon the underside of a solid sky dome, such as in a planetarium.

You would think that if such a projector existed to account for heavenly gods that someone would have found it by now.

Then there are atheists who claim that the gods are not gods but just things.

Well, all I can reply to that is: Can you live without Sky Father, or Sun, or Ocean whose circulation is so highly influenced by Moon?

I think not! If life itself depends upon them, then how can they not be considered gods?

a reply to: Pachomius

Depending on how you define God, why would it be important to determine whether or not God exists?

I think most major religions agree that if you're talking about a monotheistic God, It would have to be all powerful, all knowing, and the God of the entire universe. So let's go with that.

Now, consider the enormity of the universe, both on a micro and macro scale. From that little bacteria living on that grain of sand on the back of tadpole in the Amazon River on our little blue world ... solar system ... galaxy ... on and on. God would have to be aware and in charge of every atom, electron, sub-atomic particle, things we aren't even aware of yet. An amoeba would have a better chance of understanding a galaxy than we would of understanding God.

I think this is one limitation we as human beings will have to accept.

if you're looking for the truth scripture says that the Stars scream creation at you all night long and then the sky turns blue

Jesus Christ!!
..and God!!

Should join ats.
We could maybe grandfather them out of the Facebook loophole.
✝️

If there is a god, he's got a wicked sense of humour.

Child rape? Multiple sclerosis? Cancer? ATS closing down?

Dont get me started on priests..

a reply to: Pachomius

Now, honest intelligent productive thinking on the said issue must start with working together to concur on the concept of God. What do you dear colleagues here say?

I don't think that it is possible for us to come up with a working definition of God.

The word itself, in the singular, implies monotheism.

The trouble with monotheism is it only leaves a very few options: Yes, No, I don't know.

Then the matter that one character is required to be a do all sort of being:
1) He must be the creator of all that exists, visible and invisible.
2) He must be still alive, even though matter, energy, anti-matter, and all that stuff may have come to be through the extreme self sacrifice of exploding.
3) He must be so obsessed with my individual personhood, down to whether I can resist drugs or alcohol, ... well you get the picture.

Well that is interesting. Another option besides the three already listed would be a sort of pantheism, by which the exploded God lives in the motions and interactions of the particles, that would include all creatures great and small, even us.

4) He must have some means or mechanism for my personal, eternal, self aware continued existence even though He may have died for any life to be. In which case, insisting on personal immortality would be the epitome of non Godliness.

As a semi-literate heathen my working definition is:

Those that existed long before I did.
They will exist long after me.
Without them I could not live even briefly.

They are many and they work and interact together.

An over powered humanoid with universal cheat codes or some distinct natural force, that is technically dead or inorganic yet still have a mind of it's own.

Fallen world, devils bargain and satan has this world temp....

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge
If there is a god, he's got a wicked sense of humour.

Child rape? Multiple sclerosis? Cancer? ATS closing down?

Dont get me started on priests..

a reply to: pthena

Good to see you again my old friend... been a while

Then the matter that one character is required to be a do all sort of being:
1) He must be the creator of all that exists, visible and invisible.

Perhaps there are individual creators in their own right?

3) He must be so obsessed with my individual personhood, down to whether I can resist drugs or alcohol, ... well you get the picture.

your "Christian" leanings are showing lol

perhaps hes not so concerned with such things?