The Utter Stupidity of Both sides

The point is rightwingers are so attached to dogma and ideology they can NEVER criticize any right-wing lunacy.


Few here do. They're all so brainwashed in right-wing dogma they can't for a second get free of that.

And they talk about freedom and there like a rigid religious fanatic and can never get free of that iron grip that holds their mind in bondage.

You want freedom, free your mind first

originally posted by: Willtell
The point is rightwingers are so attached to dogma and ideology they can NEVER criticize any right-wing lunacy.

I don't consider the position against the shutdowns, destruction of the economy, and infringements on Constitutional Rights and the Rights of self to be "lunacy," though. Why in the hell would I criticize something when I was one of the first people around here to bring it to the table?

I'm not chest thumping here, but go back to March when this all started in the US. Virtually everyone here was wringing their hands over fears and only a few of us were saying "Hey, WTF?" about the response to the China Pox. That's sort of my point here, you're basically saying I'm brainwashed because I formed my own opinion that goes against the flow of the majority. I don't think you understand what brainwashing is, Will. At the time I started calling this BS, both parties were frolicking in doom porn and fear while participating actively in the infringement of Rights and the destruction of an economy. This wasn't partisan, it was (and is) common sense.

March 3
I was calling out "Conservatives" even before the lockdown started.

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: Blue Shift

It tends to be a paradigm that relies solely in serological results and treating everything else with pharmaceuticals & vaccines. I think all of those have their place, but perhaps not as the strict foundation of our entire approach.

Oh, absolutely. It's a byproduct of treating healthcare like an industry. They don't want to make treatment so easy that they can't make money from it -- diet control and exercise don't cost all that much -- so they tend to prescribe the same medicine (for which they get big discounts from manufacturers) for the same test results without caring too much about the context. To them it's like running a supermarket with an attitude of giving people the lowest quality they'll stand for in order to increase profits. The actual health of the patients is irrelevant, since they just cycle through the system anyway, either back home or into the cemetery.

It's a sad situation. But I guess that's life in general.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I’m afraid I have to disagree with your illogical analyses

It very much so can be compared to aids.

Both are infectious diseases that can KILL

Both can be spread by close contact

Uh, what? A STD vs a coronavirus. Are you serious, rn? That is asinine. You can't get HIV like that. Maybe you are on a dry spell, you forget what the S in STD stands for?

a reply to: burdman30ott6



I didn’t speak on the shutdown. That’s another issue, and I have total sympathy for what you’re referring to.

In South Korea, they hardly shut down at all
But they wear masks universally until they get a vaccine or medicine that works.

I totally agree with anyone who has legitimate employment reasons for being against the shutdown.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: YouSir
a reply to: burdman30ott6
I sir...am a Constitutional Libertarian...

And I'm the goddamn king of Spain.

Ummm...so...do we start calling you Maximillion...Or Fernandez...?

Enquiring minds want to know...

Perhaps instead of King...you could be Emperor...for a day...

Cause your position is entirely...revealing...





YouSir

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Gryphon66

This, exactly!

By the way, anyone claiming to be "Libertarian"... this post by Gryph is how a real Libertarian would look at this. I dunno WTF someone is smoking who believes government mandated shutdowns, restriction of enumerated Rights in absence of due process, and forced mask wearing is conducive libertarian beliefs, but it is some powerfull shniznat. It's right up there with all the other Orwellian doublespeak crap we're seeing everywhere, however, so maybe it's just a sign of the times.

Ummm...except your the one smoking the ganja...
No one in this thread even addressed mandated shutdowns or any of that other schtick your railing on about...except you of course...
Apparently your reading comprehension is failing...must be all that time in the land of the midnight sun...

I never did expect any honesty from you in this conversation...and quite frankly am underwhelmingly unsurprised when none was to be found...





YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

Did you or did you not argue with me a couple of months ago about how justified the shutdowns were and how actions like the government declaring a ban on congregating to exercise religious freedoms weren't an infringement on First Amendment Rights? If I'm thinking of another member and you didn't take these positions, then I am sorry for confusing you with another.

Hell, let me ask you this and it will absolutely reveal where we are at... do you support mandatory mask usage edicts from the government?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: YouSir

Did you or did you not argue with me a couple of months ago about how justified the shutdowns were and how actions like the government declaring a ban on congregating to exercise religious freedoms weren't an infringement on First Amendment Rights? If I'm thinking of another member and you didn't take these positions, then I am sorry for confusing you with another.

Hell, let me ask you this and it will absolutely reveal where we are at... do you support mandatory mask usage edicts from the government?

Ummm...NO...I completely agree with you that these mandated shutdowns and bans are unconstitutional...totally agree on that score...

All I've ever spoken to are the responsibilities that go hand in hand with rights...the responsibility that you and I and everyone has to..."do no harm"...

That my friend...is what Libertarianism is all about...and all I've ever argued on this subject...

Of course the overreach by governments is unconstitutional...and I do not celebrate any of that...only that people recognize their responsibility to cause no harm to anyone else as they go about their daily lives...

Damn...man...why is that so hard to comprehend...?

Edit: No...I do not support mandatory mask usage...I only advocate that people take responsibility and respect one another enough to not cause any others harm...





YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

So here's where we stand, and it isn't far off from each other in the grand scheme (making me wonder why we're arguing with each other while others who are 180 degrees off from us go unchallenged.)
1. Both are at "No" for government mandates that try to force behavior or habit changes.
2. Both seem to be in favor of individuals choosing for themselves.
3. Both in favor of businesses making their own decisions AND accepting whichever they decide. (ie: If a store says "no mask, no service" that is their right same as it is someone's right to choose not to patronize them.)
4. You favor encouraging people to wear masks.
5. I honestly dont care if people wear masks or not, their choice entirely so long as I am allowed to make my own choice and not badgered over it we are good. (And for the record, I've not attacked anyone for wearing masks... I've attacked people for wanting it mandated, and I've attacked people who have cheered the lockdowns.)
6. You feel it is a morality issue, which is fine as morals are largely individual judgements you use to guide your personal decisions.
7. I do not see it as a morality issue.

Ultimately, our difference here is entirely down to the "do no harm" question, or rather whether or not each of us feel there is a risk for us, individually, to do harm. I dont, while you do. Obviously if I felt sick, I'd take measures to avoid transmitting it to others. My issue is that we cant even get a straight and consistent answer from the alleged experts as to whether this is transmittable in absence of symptoms, whether masks work or may even make the wearer more likely to get sick, and whether the exercise of social distancing is even productive.

At the end of the day you believe the most dire messages coming from the "experts" and you are basing your practices on those. I'm watching the "experts" alternate between Keystone Copping this and contradicting half of what they claim each day, and I'm not personally seeing enough evidence they know WTF they're talking about to warrant lifestyle and habbit changes from me at this time.

a reply to: YouSir

By the way, I am sorry I confused you with another member I had this discussion with back in March.

a reply to: burdman30ott6


Ummm...yes...and no...

From my observations...

We have strayed so far from the constitution in this country...that the founding fathers would not recognize it as the republic they shed blood for and gave birth to...that ship sailed a long time ago...

We are a nation of laws...but laws are only necessary because even good men refuse the responsibility to police their own actions and behavior...

We have ceded those responsibilities to “the law”...and to governments...and to insuring corporations...

It’s not merely a question of morality...specifically when we have willingly relinquished the honor...and the right to be the arbiter of injustice to external entities...

How do you personally insure that your actions cause no harm to any other person or group...?

If we have no responsibility to insure we do no harm...then we have already given that over to these other entities to then police our unwillingness to perform those actions on our own...

This is the reason the governments are taking the steps they are taking...just look at Texas...and Florida...where two Republican governors have just reinstated stay at home orders...because far too few have any concern at all for the welfare of their peers...

If the population as a whole...and individually...refuse to practice their right to insure they cause no harm...then what other solution is there...?

I personally listen to the virologists and epidemiologists and front line doctors/nurses...that’s where I base my understandings from...yes...the situation and understanding of this virus is fluid...is subject to evolve and change as more information comes to light.

That’s natural and expected...especially because this virus attacks so many different body systems in profound and debilitating ways in some populations...

It attacks and kills T-cells...it has a 50% greater chance of adversely affecting people who have blood type A...it has a 50% greater chance of adversely affecting men who are bald...it also adversely affects persons who have lower vitamin d counts from increased melanin...it also seems to hide in the infected and re-emerge months after infection...just to name a few of the discoveries reported about this virus...

It’s hardly a wonder that there are so many mixed and incomplete messages...then throw into the mix the ideological and political factions using this epidemic as agenda fodder and the waters just get that much murkier...

I’m not listening to any experts...the experts have Changed the narrative and lied to us on numerous occasions...for probably Good reasons...in their eyes...like the admittance from Dr. Fauci that masks were originally stated to be ineffective...when the reality was that they were in short supply and being husbanded for first responders and healthcare professionals...That much was evident from the beginning to anyone who knows the efficacy of using proper PPE and following proper protocols...


“We have handed you a republic gentlemen...if you can keep it”...

We have not kept it...and I’m afraid we’ll all live to regret that...




YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

Seems like a very slippery slope to start going down. What happens when the left successfully steeps the Right to keep and bear arms as a threat to the concept of "do no harm?" Environmentalists and carbon emissions? Socialized healthcare? European style "hate" speech legislation?

We already have an avenue to approach those who unknowingly or unintentionally cause harm to others... it's the civil lawsuit process. Those whose actions cause harm are brought before a judge and, if responsibility is warranted but not taken, the law steps in. I feel that veering from that is extremely dangerous and short sighted.

Ummm...please understand that I’ve become severely jaded by the extremely short shrift I’ve received from those of you that I considered friends...

I’ve been mischaracterized...slandered...and made the butt of more than one juvenile attempt at humor...all at my expense I might add...

It’s been a real eye opener...that’s for sure...

It’s like I was running with a pack...only to have the pack all turn and savage me...all because I chose to voice my own opinions...


Being pack less is kind of liberating...I’m free to really challenge inequity...and no longer harbor any delusions about my place...

Placelessness is comfortable...and I relish every day...even as I breathe in through the mask filter...and exhale through the valves...

No hard feelings brother...but the trust is gone...the respect fled...and I’m just passing time as the site fades into the sunset...





YouSir

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: YouSir

Seems like a very slippery slope to start going down. What happens when the left successfully steeps the Right to keep and bear arms as a threat to the concept of "do no harm?" Environmentalists and carbon emissions? Socialized healthcare? European style "hate" speech legislation?

We already have an avenue to approach those who unknowingly or unintentionally cause harm to others... it's the civil lawsuit process. Those whose actions cause harm are brought before a judge and, if responsibility is warranted but not taken, the law steps in. I feel that veering from that is extremely dangerous and short sighted.

Ummm...all true...but only because individuals...and then groups refuse to police their own actions...

And the song remains the same...and eventually corporations will arbitrate morality...and agenda...and belief systems...

Oh wait...they already do...

The battle is lost before most even realized it was being waged...


No Ill will...and apologies for my intent going astray...





YouSir

a reply to: YouSir
My only gripe with you is you believe this is any kind of real pandemic of consequence, because it is not. This has resulted in your belief that by us living our lives as we have our entire decades long lives until spring 2020 somehow we will cause people to drop like flies into the afterlife. That choosing not to wear a symbol that practically screams stfu and obey without a second thought, is making a declaratory statement of apathy towards you.

I believe you said you had asthma or deal with it. That may negligible effect your health if you straight had it, but you would still likely survive just fine at a probability well over 96% in your case I'm guessing. Now I wholly understand that perhaps you don't want to take a chance and wear your mask, and that is your prerogative.

Do not force your fears into us. They are irrational in the face of unbiased data. Your fear is yours to have, and you have every right and maybe even duty to have them. You take the precautions. The world will not and must not turn themselves into bubble boy because hypochondria is the new trendy thing to get the cattle herded.

Have your fears and your precautions. Because those who believe they can mandate these as an annual event or permanently are going to ponder why they feel like swiss cheese as it gets cold and quiet and dark all around them.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: YouSir
My only gripe with you is you believe this is any kind of real pandemic of consequence, because it is not. This has resulted in your belief that by us living our lives as we have our entire decades long lives until spring 2020 somehow we will cause people to drop like flies into the afterlife. That choosing not to wear a symbol that practically screams stfu and obey without a second thought, is making a declaratory statement of apathy towards you.

I believe you said you had asthma or deal with it. That may negligible effect your health if you straight had it, but you would still likely survive just fine at a probability well over 96% in your case I'm guessing. Now I wholly understand that perhaps you don't want to take a chance and wear your mask, and that is your prerogative.

Do not force your fears into us. They are irrational in the face of unbiased data. Your fear is yours to have, and you have every right and maybe even duty to have them. You take the precautions. The world will not and must not turn themselves into bubble boy because hypochondria is the new trendy thing to get the cattle herded.

Have your fears and your precautions. Because those who believe they can mandate these as an annual event or permanently are going to ponder why they feel like swiss cheese as it gets cold and quiet and dark all around them.

Ummm...you ascribe to me powers reserved for higher vibrational beings than I...

While I do admit that the written word does have the power to invoke emotion...I certainly can’t force my will upon anyone on the internet...and make them afraid...

Perhaps you’ve mistaken the readers own power of persuading themself...as some sort of prestidigitational wave emanating from my written words...

Another point that you’ve gone ass over teakettle about is thinking I’m in any way fearful...I’m not...I enjoy every moment...especially these moments where I get to observe inane babbling attempting to pass itself off as relevance...

Another humor instigator...is your claim that there exists unbiased data regarding this pandemic...and that somehow your in the know about the falsehood or truthfulness of any of this...

Which data might that be...?

I do appreciate your concern for my wellbeing...I really do...but the only reason I brought up the asthma thing...was to illustrate that I’m doing just fine wearing PPE 9 hours a day during work...and not being adversely affected by it...
But I’m a level headed guy...I don’t fall victim to panic...and when I need to puff on the old inhaler...why it’s not that big a deal...frankly...I think my diaphragm and lungs are actually getting stronger from wearing the PPE so much...
I change my PPE every day...and disinfect and keep the used ones in a sealed bag with alcohol vapor...
I wear it at work...when I go shopping...or when I visit my 87 year old mom or my girlfriends 93 year old mom...I don’t wear it outdoors...or in the vehicle...or at home...

Providing you live through this pandemic...and I as well...perhaps we can compare notes for the historical record...once hindsight becomes the better part of any claims of valor...

Then one of us can tell the other...I told you so...

As to declaratory statements...I spoke fact...I did not embellish...and portions of such are available for your perusal in this very thread...along with their accompanying stars...signifying the agreement of the button mashers...


Have a nice day...








YouSir

a reply to: YouSir
I am honored to have been served by you. It was a pleasure. Those pages you exchanged dialogue with were very entertaining as well. It's one of the rare times I enjoy the mud pit, when you friends can come together and enjoy a nice group roasting.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: YouSir
I am honored to have been served by you. It was a pleasure. Those pages you exchanged dialogue with were very entertaining as well. It's one of the rare times I enjoy the mud pit, when you friends can come together and enjoy a nice group roasting.

Ummm...certainly...I’m glad I could be so entertaining for you...now I really do feel like a monkey typing gibberish on a keyboard for an hundred years...

Alas...such is the level of intellect I find myself in the company of...

There is one caveat I do claim however...and that would be...those are entirely your friends...and your level...





YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

I've had that experience. It’s called going outside the dogma of the cult.

You rebel, you’re reprimanded by the mob.

I once exposed Susan Rice on a liberal Democratic site and had the OP deleted.

All I did was expose her part along with Bill Clinton in the Rwanda genocide. They tried to play it down. Clinton fessed up years later and apologized. Rice was a prime mover of that terrible policy

That’s what happens when you veer from the mob’s official dogma. You get ostracized.