Black-on-white violent crime much worse than I thought

a reply to: Boadicea

Bull#. I have listed other factors and causes. I'm not the one stuck competing in the "Black vs White" Victim Olympics.

Oh no, far be it from anyone here to suggest that, but hey, BLACK Lives Matter, amirite?



But no, no, no black/white victim olympics at all ...

Maybe eventually you'll see this is another matter similar to the trans movement in its intensity and aims

a reply to: Grambler

I can't do this any more, Grambler.

Blame me for whatever you want. Believe whatever you want about me. Make up whatever you want about me. It will ALWAYS say more about you than me. In fact, it says nothing about me and everything about you. And, in fact, it totally and completely discredits you because I KNOW what is really in my heart and mind, and that you will just make up crap to rationalize your own confirmation bias.

So go ahead and get whatever cheap strokes for your failing ego that you can at my expense. I won't be shamed by your self-serving rants. But neither will I continue to be part of it. You don't want an honest conversation.

a reply to: ketsuko

Of course Black lives matter BECAUSE all lives matter.

If you -- or anyone -- don't have whatever it takes to think beyond the political and media hype to actually expand and expound on the many related factors and issues, that's not on me.

a reply to: Boadicea

I dont blame you for bowing out, probably the best thing at this point.

When you are forced to claiming that people literally quoting your own words back to you is making up things about you, probably time to just leave to conversation.

I did want an honest conversation.

Our conversation on this topic started with me suggesting your praise of kaepernick was wrong, and his racialization of this is what helped lead to these riots we currently see.

You accused me of making violence inevitable by not supporting kaeperinick.

he is a fraud and a racial huckster, and anyone who supports him is ignorant or more of the same in my opinion.

For you to then claim your not making this about race with all of the things you have said is laughable.


Until we can have an honest conversation about why police interactions with blacks that are violent may occur more often because of violence in those communities, and instead resort to saying police dont respect black lives as you have suggested, this situation will get worse and worse.

Good bye though, and i wish you well!

a reply to: Boadicea

Yes, but if you say ALL Lives Matter, then you're racist. How dare you point out that ALL Lives Matter?

Saying it that way implies some equality.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ketsuko

Of course Black lives matter BECAUSE all lives matter.

If you -- or anyone -- don't have whatever it takes to think beyond the political and media hype to actually expand and expound on the many related factors and issues, that's not on me.

Considering I just wrote a long post about it ... your lack of reading is not on me.

I ran these numbers on Twitter not too long ago and they didn't want to hear it. I said, "but these are the facts". Blacks are 7x more likely to murder you than a white person and 4x likely to commit a violent crime while holding roughly 12% of the population.

This is why police have to be very suspicious, active & aggressive while approaching a black suspect. It's because the data tells you, you are at a higher risk. I work in Change and Problem Management in IT. We have to categorize certain changes at a certain risk level (low, medium, high). Higher risk changes simply have more precautions that need to be done. And guess what...if my low risk change causes a problem, the next time I do it it's no longer a low risk change.

a reply to: ketsuko

I forgot to respond to this:

Maybe eventually you'll see this is another matter similar to the trans movement in its intensity and aims...

I've already point out several times in other threads that BLM promotes the trans ideology, and that the tactics of BLM and the Trans Agenda are quite similar. And I didn't get one response from anyone. Disappointingly, everyone is too focused on race to want to consider or discuss the real issues.

I can and do easily criticize BLM's Marxist agenda and methods from here to eternity... In large part because they agitate and provoke but offer nothing practical or substantive in the way of identifying root causes, much less solutions. Hell -- Kanye was more proactive and practical when he wanted to provide clean drinking water for inner-city Chicago and he was roundly "cancelled" by the Black PTB. But Kanye's just a big joke to most on ATS.

There's lots of blame to go around. Lot's of people who have and do perpetuate and escalate the problems. Left AND right. Liberal AND conservative. Black AND White. And so on and so forth.

Unless and until someone can definitively prove to me that there is something inherent in being Black that makes them violent criminals, then the problem is not race, but something else. Therefore, focusing on race and racial statistics only tells us there are external factors impacting on that demographic, and those are the factors which need to be addressed and resolved. Not race.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Yes, but if you say ALL Lives Matter, then you're racist. How dare you point out that ALL Lives Matter?

Yup. That's what lots of people are saying and believe and insist. I can't change that. I can only continue to speak the truth as I know it. And as soon as we start picking and choosing which lives matter, then no lives at all matter.

Saying it that way implies some equality.

Just "implies"? Then let me be more definitive: ALL lives matter and ALL lives are equal and endowed with natural inalienable rights by our Creator.

a reply to: Boadicea

Speaking from a position of privilege (on a few of levels), it is my understanding that the slogan refers to a perception that for some (including and particularly some of those with authority over others), black lives really don't matter. Very much.

Is that perception incorrect? I'm not one to say. Are you?

www.nbcnews.com...

a reply to: ketsuko

Considering I just wrote a long post about it ... your lack of reading is not on me.

Bravo for you. Quite commendable. If I had applause emojis I'd insert a whole row for you.

And no, of course my lack of reading is not on you. And of course you are welcome to actually share those thoughts with me instead of just playing some kind of "gotcha." I don't follow you, much less stalk you. I don't know everything you say. I don't want to know everything you say.

These disparities follow the Gini coefficient
It not a color of skin thing.

a reply to: Boadicea

And I told you what a good part of it is:

The big problem is young, black men. They grow up without fathers. You can look up the stats on that, but you know they are as bad as the stats on crime.

I explained that they have an education system that is simply geared against boys in general, no matter the race.

It sets them up to fail. Then there are the gangs in inner city life, and that's where the real separation is. You are a black boy who wants a father figure? In most inner cities, you start banging. The gang becomes your male support structure, your role model - your daddy. And we know where that leads.

We have the research that shows that outcomes for boys growing up fatherless is poorer across the board. We see the crime statistics for young black men, and we have the statistics for fatherlessness in the black community. What we need to research to see if the outcomes for fatherless black males is different depending on if they grow up in or out of the dense urban environment (inner city v suburban or rural, more or less gang contact). Then, of course your control would be boys with fathers.

a reply to: ketsuko

This is all caused by fornication when you boil it down.
Given along enough timeline a culture that does not place constraints on fornication, will decend into anarchy.

'The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth" - African proverb

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Boadicea

Speaking from a position of privilege...

I don't consider it "privilege" strictly speaking, but that's for another thread, and your point is understood...

...(on a few of levels), it is my understanding that the slogan refers to a perception that for some (including and particularly some of those with authority over others), black lives really don't matter. Very much.

Is that perception incorrect? I'm not one to say. Are you?

Yes, that perception is true as we know from their own words. So yes, I think we can say so. I would not say all people but that is many people's perception, and not wrong. There are many racist people who don't think Black lives have value. There are also many many people who find lots of reasons to think some lives don't have value. And more often than not they are the same exact people. Someone who can strip any life of value can strip every life of value.

www.nbcnews.com...

Ugh. And some critters are just self-serving cowards.

a reply to: Boadicea

And some critters are just self-serving cowards.

Always an easy out when people say things that may upset your comfy apple cart.
Don't listen. That's the ticket.

originally posted by: rom12345
a reply to: ketsuko

This is all caused by fornication when you boil it down.
Given along enough timeline a culture that does not place constraints on fornication, will decend into anarchy.

'The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth" - African proverb

Not necessarily.

There are powerful constraints in the way the welfare system is structured to stay unmarried. You can get more and better benefits if you aren't married, but merely cohabitating. Once you break apart the family enough that you start seeing the increased criminality from poorer outcomes, then you have the double problem of no marriage/no constancy and partners torn apart through incarceration.

It becomes a compounding problem to say nothing of any deaths that the gang life causes.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Boadicea

Speaking from a position of privilege (on a few of levels), it is my understanding that the slogan refers to a perception that for some (including and particularly some of those with authority over others), black lives really don't matter. Very much.

Is that perception incorrect? I'm not one to say. Are you?

www.nbcnews.com...

k in the same vein, seeing as how almost every institution of power we have now not only supports black lives matter, but it has become so taboo to challenge them that you can get fired for publicly criticizing them, I feel they are now in a position of privilege and dont think lives that disagree with them matter.

Is that perception incorrect?

a reply to: Grambler

Is that perception incorrect?

Yes. I don't think that being heard is to be considered a position of privilege but a seeking of equilibrium.

Take the ball of a pendulum and hold it say, over here. Now allow it to seek its point of equilibrium. What happens?

Them chickens do come home to roost, no matter how long it takes. No matter how long you hold that ball back.

a reply to: Phage

If they want equilibrium, the answers they want are as much inside themselves as they are in the world around them. I'll gladly help them with the world around them if they consent to look inside too.

It's like working with someone who is overweight. Sure I can help you access healthy food and exercise, but in the end, they're the only ones who can restrain the portion size and do the working out. Takes two to tango.