Transparency On The Future of ATS

a reply to: neformore

I think an argument can be made for a more general “independent thought“ than just politics. Because more so than politics that sways to and fro, independent thought can be anything. And when there is a very vocal group canceling everything they don’t like (including politics), no company wants to be boycotted for loose associations to whatever the braindead dregs are on about this week.

What do Estwing hammers have to do with who the president is or isn’t, is not a consideration. Just that Estwing must be put out of business for having an ad in rotation of ATS. It is as sine ignorance to the Nth degree, and I can’t believe you of all people remotely support that ideology by singing its praises if even tangentially. And by that I mean we both agree that 9/11 wasn’t the exception but it is what happened that day.

Where is that guy at Nef?

a reply to: neformore

You make it sound like google targeted ATS. Thats not true and disingenuous to the current climate of advertising. Hell, even coca cola just announced they will no longer advertise on ANY social media outlet.

You see more and more news sites disabling comments. All to keep advertisers on their websites. Because when it comes down to it, none of these companies want to be boycotted by people that are offended by what some joe shmo commented on a website their ad happens to be running on.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
a reply to: neformore

You make it sound like google targeted ATS. Thats not true and disingenuous to the current climate of advertising. Hell, even coca cola just announced they will no longer advertise on ANY social media outlet.

You see more and more news sites disabling comments. All to keep advertisers on their websites. Because when it comes down to it, none of these companies want to be boycotted by people that are offended by what some joe shmo commented on a website their ad happens to be running on.

Pretty much this. And he's not wrong in that someone like Coca-Cola is not apt to want to advertise where they can be targeted by proxy because of some stranger's braindead dip# comment somewhere.

If you're a business, it's a rock and a hard place in that you HAVE to choose, like it or not. Specifically to forums, it's a choice between a wide open forum that can be construed as supporting the drivel posted, or securing the advertising funding, hmm.

Sorry, but if the costs of the site as as much as claimed, I'd have boarded up the Pit (locked it to nix postings, not removing it) and counted what little fiscal blessings remained. IMO, not doing so was a pretty BAD idea -- those chickens came home to roost. And we know it's politically based because SO said as much (namely Clinton crap)

IMO, it should be a post-count locked forum for seasoned posters like RATS is. Uncrawlable by bots and algorithms (or at least as close to it as humanly possible)
A lot of this mess could have been avoided if someone had just swallowed a bit of pride, and used some forethought for worst-case-but-likely-scenario stuff once dots started connecting as reasons for ads dropping away. You don't have to scrub a forum to zero threads, you don't have to get rid of the topic forum, following the RATS model could have at LEAST mitigated some of that pressure from essentially being demonetized.

On 2014-01-31, these were the top 10 (in number of posts) forums:

Breaking Alternative News     9.20%
Aliens and UFOs                     6.70%
General Conspiracies              5.86%
General Chit Chat                  5.10%
Other Current Events             4.35%
US Political Madness               3.38%
Science & Technology             2.79%
War On Terrorism                   2.73%
Introductions                         2.69%
Fragile Earth                         2.57%

All political forums added accounted for 9.74% of all posts.

Today::

Breaking Alternative News          7.03%
Aliens and UFOs                         6.16%
US Political Madness                   5.37%
General Conspiracies                  4.89%
General Chit Chat                      4.72%
Other Current Events                  3.91%
Social Issues and Civil Unrest      3.90%
Political Mud-Pit                         3.81%
Religion, Faith, And Theology      2.66%
Breaking Political News               2.45%

All political forums added account for 14.87% of all posts.

We can see that, even if there was an increase in political posts, the two main forums (Breaking Alternative News and Aliens and UFOs) remain the same but we also have new appearances on the Top 10 that are not political forums, like Social Issues and Civil Unrest (it was number 18 on 2014-01-31) and, even more interesting Religion, Faith, And Theology, 15th on 2014-01-31.

That makes me think that people got more interested in personal issues than on issues that do not directly affect their lives, so while those topics were still very active (like the Aliens and UFOs forum), they were not at the top of the interests of most members.

At least that's what it looks like to me.

a reply to: Ahabstar

Where's that guy at?

He its watching something that he dedicated an awful amount of time and effort to dying because people can't accept the reality of it.

He is frustrated because politics took over a site and ruined it.

I find it amazing that you, as an American - of all the peoples of the word, the ultimate capitalists - has no understanding of market forces. They are the rule here, not the exception to it.

BS polarised political right/left wing bickering and extreme views do not sell.

a reply to: FauxMulder

No, Google did not just target ATS.

They targeted anything that is going to affect their brand, and the brands that advertise through them in a potentially big way.

Advertisers no longer want to deal with peoples bull# extreme views. Ask Facebook - they're under a huge amount of pressure from their major advertisers right now for not cracking down on hate speech and misinformation.

Those companies want brand disassociation from bull# and aren't prepared to support anyone who can adversely affect them.

a reply to: Nyiah

At the very least, making the mud pit like rats would have helped mitigate all the complaining about it. But I think it wouldn't matter even if ATS was the shining example of civil discourse, ads are going to be drying up for any user generated sites in general.

Along with the current major boycott of social media giants, any site like this is going to be swept up in the PC speech policing.

more than 90 marketers including Verizon, Patagonia, REI, Lending Club and The North Face have announced their intention to join, according to a running list from Sleeping Giants. The group of organizations includes the Anti-Defamation League, the NAACP, Sleeping Giants, Color of Change, Free Press and Common Sense.

Unilever joined brands like Eddie Bauer, The North Face and Patagonia ....Following Coca-Cola’s announcement, Levi’s and Dockers said they will be pausing all advertising on Facebook and Instagram through “at least” July.

Procter & Gamble, another major Facebook spender, said earlier this week it is reviewing all media channels, networks, platforms and programs it advertises on “to ensure that the content and commentary accurately and respectfully all people, and that we are not advertising on or near content we determine to be hateful, discriminatory, denigrating

cnbc

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: FauxMulder

They targeted anything that is going to affect their brand, and the brands that advertise through them in a potentially big way.

Exactly. what about 9/11 conspiracies? Should ATS not talk about that because advertisers wouldn't like it? What about blaming the CIA for JFK? What about FEMA camps and false flags? How about government coverups and any other conspiracy that these advertisers wouldnt want to be associated with?

It's not just politics that are toxic to advertising.

a reply to: neformore

Hmm. I seem to have spent a comparable amount of time and effort but do not blame the membership, staff nor owners for outside forces beyond their control. It is a changing world that ATS could not adapt to nor should it have to adapt, but since that new world finds freedom of expression contrary to the narrow guidelines of a warped ruleset...what is left?

ATS stops being what it was to comply? ATS remains true to itself and folds? Or ATS sells to a new ownership that makes their decisions as to the future? To those ends, ownership has no obligations to me as a member nor as staff. One of the stages of grief is acceptance. I see you are still at anger and near bargaining. It will get better in time old friend.

originally posted by: FauxMulder

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: FauxMulder

They targeted anything that is going to affect their brand, and the brands that advertise through them in a potentially big way.

Exactly. what about 9/11 conspiracies? Should ATS not talk about that because advertisers wouldn't like it? What about blaming the CIA for JFK? What about FEMA camps and false flags? How about government coverups and any other conspiracy that these advertisers wouldnt want to be associated with?

It's not just politics that are toxic to advertising.

No, they're definitely not the only advertising kryptonite out there. The catch is to try to figure out how to beat 'em at their own game and milk it. There's always a way to wave a middle finger around while getting the bulk of what you want. You just gotta find it. Allowing crawler to crawl selective forums & their topics only seems to be the obvious start, despite the expected drop in google search traffic for other uncrawlable forums/topics.

originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: neformore

Hmm. I seem to have spent a comparable amount of time and effort but do not blame the membership, staff nor owners for outside forces beyond their control.

Its been entirely in their control.

It is a changing world that ATS could not adapt to nor should it have to adapt, but since that new world finds freedom of expression contrary to the narrow guidelines of a warped ruleset...what is left?

Is race hate and political bickering freedom of expression?

ATS stops being what it was to comply?

ATS stopped being what it was. That's the problem.

ATS remains true to itself and folds?

If it stays as it is now, it will die.

Or ATS sells to a new ownership that makes their decisions as to the future?

See above.

To those ends, ownership has no obligations to me as a member nor as staff.

No, it doesn't. People need to bear that in mind.

One of the stages of grief is acceptance. I see you are still at anger and near bargaining. It will get better in time old friend.

Grief? Anger? No. Indifference. Saw this coming a long time ago and gave up because no one was listening. Seems they still aren't.

a reply to: FauxMulder

You're mixing up discussion with extremism/bull#, and you are spectacularly missing the point.

Yes, there are political conspiracies. JFK is one, 9/11 may be another. Iran/Contra etc. Based on observable facts, dedicated research and evidence.

Constantly recycling phrases like 'TDS' and 'Reee' at people, calling them mentally ill, rabid polarisation, cult of personality politics, overt focus on US politics, sound byte race baiting, shouting people down and arguing for the sake of it however is not political conspiracy discussion - its inane.

And its all across the ATS front page.

a reply to: neformore

And again see earlier comments on 2012, Deepwater, et al being over. The lull was filled because nature abhors a vacuum. But what was the solution? Thrust editorial control over those that wanted politics? To say there was no politics or that is was always kind rather abruptly ignores the 9/11 Forum aka Bush Did It Forum. There was more than a couple Birth Certificate threads as you may recall as well.

But for being “indifferent” you seems just shy of baying at the moon that this everyone’s fault when it has been explained, demonstrated and yes even graphed that Google gave ATS a big old FU after years of sharing ad revenue versus dumping even more # ads and barely paying for them to be displayed.

a reply to: neformore

Such a good point.

There is a massive difference between debating political conspiracies and this left vs right rabid argument

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: neformore

Such a good point.

There is a massive difference between debating political conspiracies and this left vs right rabid argument

Not really considering advertisers don't want to be part of either.

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: FauxMulder
Constantly recycling phrases like 'TDS' and 'Reee' at people, calling them mentally ill, rabid polarisation, cult of personality politics, overt focus on US politics, sound byte race baiting, shouting people down and arguing for the sake of it however is not political conspiracy discussion - its inane.

And it has killed ATS. Punkt.

originally posted by: FauxMulder

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: neformore

Such a good point.

There is a massive difference between debating political conspiracies and this left vs right rabid argument

Not really considering advertisers don't want to be part of either.

Regardless of advertisers the political caterwailing has most certainly stifled any real conversation which has destroyed what ats was.

We're living in a world that is teetering on the brink of destruction over politics. Small wonder that is what people will post passionately about.Hardly surprising that sasquatch and UFO's are not front and center. We only get what we contribute here so anything I feel is missing I take responsibility for not researching and presenting it. I got lazy. Maybe others have too.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I just remained as lazy as ever, no changes for me.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
We're living in a world that is teetering on the brink of destruction over politics. Small wonder that is what people will post passionately about.Hardly surprising that sasquatch and UFO's are not front and center. We only get what we contribute here so anything I feel is missing I take responsibility for not researching and presenting it. I got lazy. Maybe others have too.

Politics have always been volatile. The stuff we see today is not new to politics, but maybe only new to how many people see it. People screamed and talked # in congress for years, but now that we have social media...and a media that has no delay in publication for cosumption (like print), that has consumed us. For a purpose, controlled an coordinated. Weaponized.