Tribalism - It Get's Really Complicated

So I turned on the TV this morning to watch President Trump sign his Executive Order on Police Reform. I got totally distracted by a news clip about
Man shot as protesters tried to tear down Spanish conquistador statue in New Mexico, police say
After listening to the Presidential Re-election campaign speech, I went back to wondering about the shooting in New Mexico. It's easy to think that Native Americans of the Southwest would not think of the Spanish Conquistadores as people who should be celebrated as "Founding Fathers", especially Juan de Oñate, remembered as the man who cut off feet.

Oñate, who arrived in present-day New Mexico in 1598, is celebrated as a cultural father figure in communities along the Upper Rio Grande that trace their ancestry to Spanish settlers. But he’s also reviled for his brutality.

To Native Americans, Oñate is known for having ordered the right feet cut off of 24 captive tribal warriors that was precipitated by the killing of Oñate’s nephew. In 1998, someone sawed the right foot off the statue — an incident that weighed in the decision to stash away the statue.

Based upon my own Anglo-Saxon(mostly) tribal ancestry, which side should I stand with, American or Spanish(Hispano)? What a conundrum! Isn't Francis Drake my hero? Should I abandon my tribe to fight and die on someone else's hill?

This may seem irrelevant to some, inadmissible evidence even. I remember a dream I had in the early '60s, sometime after watching a horror movie based upon the legend of Cueva del Pirata, and the man left there as sentry.

In Valparaíso, Chile, folklore associates a cave known as Cueva del Pirata (lit. "Cave of the Pirate") with Francis Drake. A legend says that when Drake sacked the port he became disappointed over the scant plunder. Drake proceeded to enter the churches in fury to sack them and urinate on the goblets.[86] However he still found the plunder to be not worth enough to take it on board his galleon, hiding it in the cave.[86] Another version the legend says a treasure was left in the cave because the plunder had been more than he could take on board.[86] Together with the treasure Drake would have left a man chained or a sentry to wait for them to return, which they did not.[86] The treasure is said to still be there, but those who approach it drown.[86]

en.wikipedia.org...

I was with a troop of other Spanish soldiers trekking up a dry arroyo. The sun was high, beating down on us. The sweat mixed with the dust and sand was a particular annoying abrasive to my armpits where the movement of my swinging arms against my breastplate was sanding away the skin; the sting of the salty sweat.

From both sides of the arroyo, Natives rose with lances, the battle was on. Before I could even brush away the stinging sweat from I eyes, a cardboard box dropped over me. And the instant after throwing the box off, I was pierced in the gut, just below the bottom edge of my breastplate, with a spear. For a brief time I grasped the spear with both hands, watched them cover with red blood, before falling dead in the sand and dust under the beating sun.

So that's what it was like to die as a Spanish Conquistador in the Americas in the late 1500s.

I was born in San Diego County. The Spanish influence was quite heavy; Juan Cabrillo statues, Don Diego riding in parades, school field trips to missions built with enslaved native labor. Holy Moly!

But, but, my tribe is supposedly the inheritors of and guardians of Western Civilization. Well, we were nomadic warring Pagans and Heathens before the Romans killed us into civilized ways. How far back does this go? How far forward?

I came across this song:


Gives me the Australia envy, like "Yeah, isn't that also the history and ideals of U.S.A?" Yes! Yes it is! So where is our song like that? Closest I could think of was this:


Well, that's what we were singing in 4th Grade, same year that we, as a class, looked at Juan Cabrillo statue and the mission built by Native American slaves for the Spanish.

a reply to: pthena

"How far back?", indeed.

At least this far:

a reply to: pthena

We are headed for a cultural revolution and if you look at history those who would not be reeducated were eliminated. A good example was the great leap forward where any thing of the old was torn down from churches to Budest temples. After they tore it all down man (sounds familiar) then began the public shamming and the eventual demise of those who would not get with the program. Then it was the collective farms which was such a failure that millions starved, similar to the mantra of give them 40 acres mantra. Folks say it can't happen in America just look at the French revolution the cultural revolution of Russia, million died. We've had 60 plus years of government schools who have dumbed down the population and have indoctrinated the hate America agenda. We are head for a cultural war that will be as violent as those of the past that has killed millions.

Hate to see this happen. NM is my home state.

There was no reason to shoot the protester at all.

Self defense.
Clowns were attacking him and Bevis and Butthead were swinging their skateboards at his head.
Funny how the “Defund the Cops” crowd scream for the cops.

originally posted by: Subrosabelow
Hate to see this happen. NM is my home state.

There was no reason to shoot the protester at all.

Besides avoiding getting beaten to death with the crowd chanting "Kill Him!!!" in the background, I guess...

To the OP, as a Native American I don't wake up every morning fearing the White man, despite having my family tree pruned pretty severely by the Trail of Tears.

I also don't blame the White man for what happened.

And most importantly, I realize that history is exactly that.

Something that is behind us.

If you live in the past you can never live in the Now.

So you are technically not "living life" at all.

Harboring resentment for a statue is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my life.

Something happened way back when and was commemorated by someone.

Who cares?

As for tribalism, as an actual member of a Tribe I can't really get around that...

~shrug~

Will always be paying for the sins of our fathers when we have something the have nots want. Plain and simple if you hold the grudge against our fathers than we all should just eliminate Germany because they will never shed the sins of the past. How about Japan and Italy. Their sins are far more recent. How about the asian woman who are slaves today do we need to straighten that out also.

Here take it all you friggin leach.

a reply to: tinktinktink
What no mention of Russia and China? They killed millions to themselves of their fathers sins.

a reply to: PhilbertDezineck

Yep get yours from them too. Tired of kids wanting stuff for free because their grandfathers had a tough row to hoe. Get your tail out their and work for it like the rest of it. Rascism today is nothing more than a token grab so your sorry tail can stay home while i work for it.

a reply to: pthena

I did not know there were cardboard boxes in the late 1500's.

Depending who you talk to here, the tribal lines can be pretty fuzzy and arbitrary. Depending on who is guilty (which is always you) then that is your tribe.

It's an amazing conversation tactic.

a reply to: tinktinktink
Hide and watch. Can't happen here you say.

a reply to: PhilbertDezineck

Your wrong happens here everyday. Everytime I have ever sat down and filled out an application for something It ask me my race so they can be sure I get sent to the bottom of the pile.

see Affirmitive Action among so many other pieces of racist legislation.

a reply to: ABNARTY

I did not know there were cardboard boxes in the late 1500's.

It was a dream. Theory goes that things appearing in dreams are symbols.

My brother and I used to use large cardboard boxes (such as those for washing machines) as tank-tread conveyances. We were small enough to get inside on hands and knees and propel them through all manner of terrain. It gave us a false sense of safety while simultaneously blocking our view of where the heck we were going.

Dream theorists write of Universal Symbols. I doubt very much that the literature mentions card board boxes in the way I interpret them.

a reply to: Lumenari

~shrug~

Yes! Exactly!
That is why this piece appears in the RANT subforum. It's my rant. I'm not asking anyone to accept is as their own.

I don't have to defend it even. It is what it is.

a reply to: pthena

Ah...got it. Thanks.