In Defense of the Police

There seems to be an overwhelming nonstop barrage of abuse on the police these days. Rioters and protesters taunt and attack them, the media bashes them, even their city officials condemn them.
Based on what? A handful of fatal white-cop-on-black incidents?
Okay, one such incident is one too many. No one is defending Chauvin's knee on George's neck. No one denies that police (of any color) sometimes abuse their authority over their prisoners and suspects (of any color).
I've noticed all these incidents have one thing in common; the suspect violently resisted.
Police handle thousands of suspects every day without incident. They approach, talk, search, read rights, restrain (cuff) and take to the office for paperwork. Often the miscreant is released the next day. Routine.
Problem is, some suspects run and/or fight. Often these suspects are on drugs or alcohol, which makes them out of control. anyone remember the first part of the Rodney King tape? we saw an enraged giant fighting off multiple police officers.
Resisting changes the whole situation. It's easy to process the arrest and paperwork but as soon as violence ensues the policeman must consider judgment calls, usually on the fly.
How much force is too much? Easy to sit in an office or at a computer and lecture John Law about what they should/should not can/ can not do, but if you're on the street with two hundred pounds of drug-crazed young man (of any race) trying to hurt you and maybe take your gun you don't have much interest in the procedural flow chart. You're trying to survive a situation full of unknowns (which might result in your death. Police want to live too).

I saw on online article last week entitled something like 'what do I tell my black children about dealing with the police'.
tell them to comply and don't resist.
and if they're on drugs...well stay home before you hurt yourself. or others.

a reply to: ElGoobero

It's the use of discriminatory abuse language which they're expected to partake in which is something inflammatory in itself .

Eg the ( innocent ) suspect is at the property ( his home ) and is a male ( a man ) , ic2 ( black )

a reply to: ElGoobero

Based on what? A handful of fatal white-cop-on-black incidents?

A handful? You are aware of the Posse Comitatus forum. And these are only the stories that people actually know about and can be bothered posting.

This is not some new phenomenon. This has been going on for years and years.

a reply to: ElGoobero

I've noticed all these incidents have one thing in common; the suspect violently resisted.

Breonna Taylor was asleep in her bed.

Link

a reply to: ElGoobero

Based on what? A handful of fatal white-cop-on-black incidents?

Problem is, some suspects run and/or fight.

I've seen so many videos online that your "handful" just sounds so dismissive. There are so many incidents that it boggles the mind.

If a suspect runs or fights. Then that's on him.

But we have too many suspects being shot by the police when they are doing nothing to provoke the cops.

Case in point Charles Kinsey was laying on the ground with his hands in the air. And the police still shot him. And the officer was only convicted of a misdemeanor for the shooting.



I have to say that the abuse is well deserved. There's decades of police abusing their power on minorities. It can not be allowed to go on any longer.

ucr.fbi.gov...

FBI says ten million arrests in the USA in 2018.
not counting suspects questioned and released.

how many times a year do police abuse their authority? a thousand times a year? that's not one percent, that's one percent of one percent.
how many of these 'countless examples' are the same handful of stories over and over?
how long are we going to blame today's police for brutal actions of ten, twenty, fifty years ago?
how many incidents are like Rodney King, where he see and hear about the last few minutes of cop beating, and not the first ten or twenty of the suspect fighting?

that's why networks are pulling shows like COPS or Live PD. they don't want to show what the police have to put up with. fighting, cursing, taunting, spitting, head butting, on and on. and we expect our officers to maintain their poise and not over-react.
I'm not justifying abuse of authority, I'm saying it's rare and inevitable, when we put young men in harms way.

This problem is easily solved by training the police in the same way the military are trained. Police only get like 4 hours of training a year. It's no wonder this happens.

Notice how differently the national guard acted, in general, when deployed to the riots? That's because their training is way more intense than a cop, even if only they go through basic. If you want to be an officer you should be trained as a marine.

Bottom line the police need more funding for "real" high stress training. And no more hiring fatties.

Actually now that I'm thinking about all military vets should be transitioned to police after duty if they choose. Put them to work instead of treating them like dirt when they get home. I'm sure many would love that and feel like they're accomplishing something.

Millions of interactions a day, hundreds of millions of interactions a year, and how many unjustified shootings are there 300?

If they want a conversation about people being targeted for harassment because of their skin color you have an argument.

But the police are NOT hunting down black people, when you consider the number of interactions and compare it to the unjustified killings, heck compare it to the killings and the math does not support the claim that they are hunting any group of people down and killing them.

a reply to: ElGoobero

I'm not justifying abuse of authority, I'm saying it's rare and inevitable, when we put young men in harms way.

The percentage of cops doing bad things isn’t the entire issue. It’s about the culture of protection surrounding the ones that do. It’s about police unions, other cops, and politicians covering for them no matter what.

When a police officer can wrongly kill someone and get away with it, something is severely broken. As long as things remain like this, they might as well all be bad. If you have 100 bad cops and 1,000 good ones but the 1,000 refuse to out the bad ones, you have 1,100 bad cops.

Until the good ones break the code of silence en masse and courts and judges decide to not put their behavior above the law this problem will remain. And it’s only going to get worse.

originally posted by: Flesh699
This problem is easily solved by training the police in the same way the military are trained. Police only get like 4 hours of training a year. It's no wonder this happens.

most Police training involves legal codes and paperwork. physical conflict is an afterthought.

not helped by leftist idiot Mayor and Commissioner types who constantly limit their options. 'stop the riot but don't use teargas'. 'restrain the drug-crazed 20 year old but do so gently and respectfully, and you'd better believe we'll hold you accountable if he's harmed'.

originally posted by: ElGoobero
There seems to be an overwhelming nonstop barrage of abuse on the police these days. Rioters and protesters taunt and attack them, the media bashes them, even their city officials condemn them.

Seems to be? I havnt noticed it at all police but ok
Seems to be an overwhelming nonstop barrage of arrogance and abuse by police these days towards civilians

originally posted by: ElGoobero
Based on what? A handful of fatal white-cop-on-black incidents?
Okay, one such incident is one too many. No one is defending Chauvin's knee on George's neck. No one denies that police (of any color) sometimes abuse their authority over their prisoners and suspects (of any color).

I think it’s based on police abusing their authority on many occasions
I have seen police treat everyone as a suspect for no reason
It’s gotten to a point that questioning a cop makes a person a criminal, that’s a dangerous situation, very dangerous precedent, very much a dictatorship

originally posted by: ElGoobero
I've noticed all these incidents have one thing in common; the suspect violently resisted.
Police handle thousands of suspects every day without incident. They approach, talk, search, read rights, restrain (cuff) and take to the office for paperwork. Often the miscreant is released the next day. Routine.

I havnt noticed every situation as you state is a result from a violent resistance of arrest, not at all, in fact that seems to be the issue, many are not. Many are people questioning, denying the policeman’s statement and then being abused. “One thing in common” that’s just not true.

originally posted by: ElGoobero
Problem is, some suspects run and/or fight. Often these suspects are on drugs or alcohol, which makes them out of control. anyone remember the first part of the Rodney King tape? we saw an enraged giant fighting off multiple police officers.

The Rodney King incident was not a one off and represents the problem, it has changed but nobody trusts cops still. They clearly don’t deserve our trust
I don’t trust them and I am not a criminal

originally posted by: ElGoobero
Resisting changes the whole situation. It's easy to process the arrest and paperwork but as soon as violence ensues the policeman must consider judgment calls, usually on the fly.
How much force is too much? Easy to sit in an office or at a computer and lecture John Law about what they should/should not can/ can not do, but if you're on the street with two hundred pounds of drug-crazed young man (of any race) trying to hurt you and maybe take your gun you don't have much interest in the procedural flow chart. You're trying to survive a situation full of unknowns (which might result in your death. Police want to live too).

Poor police, choose a job that places you in a precarious situation and abuse your power, allow others in your company to abuse power. Plant drugs, lie to justify errors, police are people and lie, cheat, steal and you want to make them out as angels, it’s not true
They have good days and bad.

originally posted by: ElGoobero
I saw on online article last week entitled something like 'what do I tell my black children about dealing with the police'.
tell them to comply and don't resist.
and if they're on drugs...well stay home before you hurt yourself. or others.

I don’t think the issue is as simple, drugs, police, comply and stay at home, bit simplistic and unrealistic isn’t that. It’s not reality

The issue is denying a situational reality that is painting every single cop as a monster and rather admit there really are issues of endemic corruption, violence and abuse of power, you blame the victims. You pour fuel on the flames, you encourage hate by denying a reality many others live.
I have been in situations a few times and the police have been pigs, authoritarians beyond reason and inflamed situations.
To the point of, if I noted a policeman being assaulted, I may consider just walking away.

originally posted by: ElGoobero
ucr.fbi.gov...

FBI says ten million arrests in the USA in 2018.
not counting suspects questioned and released.

how many times a year do police abuse their authority? a thousand times a year? that's not one percent, that's one percent of one percent.

Really?
They abuse their authority only 1000 times a year, is that true or did you pull that from the sky?
You pull that number from the air and then make up statistics like it’s a real and valid number and your pretend number has a value worth defending.

You live a false system and think we should join you in make believe

a reply to: underwerks

i totally agree with you on this

originally posted by: ElGoobero
There seems to be an overwhelming nonstop barrage of abuse on the police these days. Rioters and protesters taunt and attack them, the media bashes them, even their city officials condemn them. Based on what? A handful of fatal white-cop-on-black incidents?

This is just the NEXT obvious target (local police) by antifa; the attempted demonizing of Federal agents ICE and Border Patrol failed. They, for some reason have neglected to go after the true rogue agency BATFE, (fake *Superhero Name* ATF) whom really deserves to be dismantled/incinerated. Watch how they manipulate their dutiful "obey or else" audience to rationalize a total demilitarization of this country. The Military establishment will be their next metaphorical Rosetta stone.

a reply to: underwerks

Did you read the part where her boyfriend fired on the police first and the police then fired back causing her to be struck 8 times out of the 20 shots fired? And that the reason the police were there was due to her previous boyfriend and her car having been at his place recently so her address was on the warrant and was not a mistaken address situation?

The situation sucks completely, but yet again it is not an incident of rogue police just raising Cain for no reason. But breaking narratives of conformation bias are hard to accomplish...so I suspect that all this typing was for naught for you...but maybe someone else will get it.

a reply to: ElGoobero

Overall, the police do a good job.

But you can't say that any more.

You have to bend the knee to BLM, Antifa, whatever they want to call themselves.

You do not have the option of having a different opinion any longer because you will be punished.

No longer can we, "Agree to disagree".

Get with the program, learn your lines, and obey.

a reply to: ElGoobero

how many times a year do police abuse their authority? a thousand times a year? that's not one percent, that's one percent of one percent.
how many of these 'countless examples' are the same handful of stories over and over?
how long are we going to blame today's police for brutal actions of ten, twenty, fifty years ago?

How many times should police abuse their authority. It should be ZERO PERCENT! IT SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN AT ALL! As soon as police abuse their authority they should be fired. Period.

that's why networks are pulling shows like COPS or Live PD. they don't want to show what the police have to put up with. fighting, cursing, taunting, spitting, head butting, on and on. and we expect our officers to maintain their poise and not over-react.

I don't agree with that either. The police's job isn't easy. When a police officer is attacked they should be allowed to defend themselves. However executing someone while in custody should never be allowed. Ever. Americans have the right to not be deprived of life without due process.

... nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; ...

I'm not justifying abuse of authority, I'm saying it's rare and inevitable, when we put young men in harms way.

Unfortunately it's not rare. It happens way too often. There are quite a few people in prison that don't belong there. And a bunch of dead people that should still be alive.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: ElGoobero

How many times should police abuse their authority. It should be ZERO PERCENT! IT SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN AT ALL! As soon as police abuse their authority they should be fired. Period.

any such action is investigated and disciplinary action taken. there are bad cops like there are bad teachers and bad lawyers and bad pole dancers. if you have a formula to weed out 100% of the problem children lets hear it.

I don't agree with that either. The police's job isn't easy. When a police officer is attacked they should be allowed to defend themselves. However executing someone while in custody should never be allowed. Ever. Americans have the right to not be deprived of life without due process.

see above

Unfortunately it's not rare. It happens way too often. There are quite a few people in prison that don't belong there. And a bunch of dead people that should still be alive.

no one know the exact number but it is rare, extremely rare.
and there are a lot of dead police that should still be alive.

a reply to: ElGoobero

any such action is investigated and disciplinary action taken. there are bad cops like there are bad teachers and bad lawyers and bad pole dancers. if you have a formula to weed out 100% of the problem children lets hear it.

In the majority of cases the cops are always absolved of any wrong doing. In order to weed out the problem we need to make things transparent. And if cops conspire to cover up any wrong doing all officers involved need to be fired.

You think it's rare. I'm thinking it happens more often than rarely. Probably happens regularly.

originally posted by: DoctorBluechip
a reply to: ElGoobero

It's the use of discriminatory abuse language which they're expected to partake in which is something inflammatory in itself .

Eg the ( innocent ) suspect is at the property ( his home ) and is a male ( a man ) , ic2 ( black )

You mean IC3.