Thomas Jefferson statue toppled by protesters

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Gryphon66






"Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. He probably sexually abused his female slaves. "


Ah , Really ? How do you know that for a Fact ? If not , No Reason to Mention it .

He had children by his female slaves. Although Tom was known to be a looker, there's plenty of historical evidence for the minor claim.

Thanks for the advice though. Very valuable.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I didn't say they were. I did say they were revolutionary/radical for that time. They were the same as far back as Greece and Rome as well.

The simple fact of the matter is that for most of human history slavery has been a common and accepted part of most cultural orders everywhere in the world, new world to old.

Our modern disgust for it is a relatively recent thing in history, and even now slavery still flourishes in many places around the globe, like it or not because of its cultural acceptance in many places.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Women not voting was OK then too.

It was a common cultural norm for the time.

Today, it's unthinkable, just like slavery, but at that point in time, it was a commonly accepted thing. Don't make the mistake of judging their past by our mores. It's the same mistake the statue brigade is making.

As I said, for the Founders to have written what they did and to have laid for foundations for its abolition was remarkable given the world around them.

No it wasn't okay for women to be denied the vote then or now.

Up until the time of the Fourteenth Amendment, by the way, there was no universal suffrage, despite all that "all are created equal" stuff. People that didn't own a certain amount of property couldn't vote for example. That was also wrong then and now.

Washington, Jefferson and ALL of them knew that slavery was wrong. They STATED that it was wrong, morally reprehensible, calamitous for the new nation, etc.

They couldn't do anything about it, but it is very clear that the approbation of slavery in our Constitution is one of the continuing serious flaws in our country.

However, the UK outlawed slavery just a few years after our Constitution was enacted in 1833. So it wasn't impossible.

Here's the bottom line that we must face: Slavery was PROFITABLE. The Southern States' economies were agrarian based, and slavery is what kept the profits flowing.

To some extent I agree but there is still a difference between what happened “then” and what happens “now”.

There was a substance that was all the rage a hundred years ago that was socially acceptable to a lot of the in crowd. It was also an ingredient in a famous soda.

I have an old set of encyclopedias that describes it as a substance derived from a South American plant that, when taken gives “verve and quickness of step”.

At the same time that it was acceptable to a large percentage of society there were others, some religious groups for example, that spoke out against it.

Now, when we fast forward a hundred years, we have learned more and understand that it is bad. Some people still partake. Should the people of yesteryear that took it be compared to and judged as harshly as their contemporaries?

I know it’s not apples to apples but I believe it gets my point across

a reply to: NorthOfStuff

I remember doing research on that stuff and reading a letter that Sigmund Freud wrote about it.



It was ... interesting for a kid in junior high.

a reply to: alldaylong
There’s people that own corporations right now that own slaves . What in the name of god are you doing about it ?

a reply to: Gryphon66

What right now , are you doing about slaves that live right now in this present day ?

originally posted by: Thenail
a reply to: Gryphon66

What right now , are you doing about slaves that live right now in this present day ?

I have contributed to charities that are fighting human trafficking. One I support locally is 4Sarah.

How about you?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

I didn't say they were. I did say they were revolutionary/radical for that time. They were the same as far back as Greece and Rome as well.

The simple fact of the matter is that for most of human history slavery has been a common and accepted part of most cultural orders everywhere in the world, new world to old.

Our modern disgust for it is a relatively recent thing in history, and even now slavery still flourishes in many places around the globe, like it or not because of its cultural acceptance in many places.

The fact is that in all times and all places, slaves are still human beings, with the human need to be free.

Arguing that it is okay or was okay ... not a great position.

Child marriages have also historically been acceptable. Care to argue for that?

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: SolAquarius

Jefferson owned slaves.

Fair game.

Purchased from England

Fair game

a reply to: Gryphon66

There's a difference between saying a thing is acceptable and understanding that during a specific time in history things were different.

I get that you love to paint all your ideological opposition as racist, etc., using words games but it gets old.

But yes, because child marriages were common at the time of Mohammad, it isn't exactly fair to call him a pedophile or child rapist. It is absolutely correct to condemn those today who use him as an excuse to do the same in modern times though.

a reply to: Gryphon66

This was 250 years ago and it was legal . You get off your liberal slavery supporting ass and do something about the present day slavery , kidnapping, human trafficking, and murdering going on today . There are humans that own corporations that are guilty of it all . You can do something about it . Get off your ass and have these people arrested. Why are you here talking about stuff almost 300 years ago .
What’s next , the Renaissance? The dark ages ? Maybe the romans ? Your posts are very silly 😜

a reply to: Thenail

At some point he'll admit he'd like to just pull a Taliban on history because everyone in it was just a bunch of child raping, slave owning racist bastards ... who beat their wives.

a reply to: ketsuko

Right lol , we can call it the year zero again . 0 BG . Before gryphon

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: SolAquarius

Jefferson owned slaves.

Fair game.

Every culture and ethnicity in the history of the planet either owned slaves or were enslaved at some point in their history. Do you want to erase that reality?

a reply to: Thenail

It's similar to the arguments surrounding Mark Twain. Despite the fact that Hucklebarry Finn is actually a very progressive novel for its time showing the friendship and camaraderie between Huck and Jim, they want to "sanitize" it because of the language used.

But has anyone ever taught them that one of the things Twain is known for, prized for is his use of colloquial speech in his writing? That's right -- the man wrote the way people actually used to talk. You can dislike, you can find it insensitive and uncomfortable, but he wrote his characters' speech the way people actually talked in his day to day reality.

Those were different times, and you can't expect people in those days to know that sometime in a future they likely scarcely spend moment thinking of, people won't like how they are talking.

At the same time, imagine how some of those same people would gasp in horror at the casual way many people simply drop obscenities every other word.

a reply to: alldaylong

Jefferson owned slaves. Fair game.

so i suppose that your fine with having all statues, painting's, or busts of all the slavers, people that enabled it, people that profited from it, and owners in the UK.
people like, francis drake,john hawkins,elizabeth I,robert rich,charles I, charles II, samuel pepys, james I,james II
thomas guy, henry phillpotts, philip yroke, humphry morice, oliver cromwell and many more.

these people's images need to be erased from history the way you say it.

originally posted by: Zarniwoop
I'm happy to take anyone's two dollar bills if they don't want them.

you beat me to it.

Looks like somebody was shot during the statue take-down.

twitter.com...

We are all slaves to money and there is always some one who can punish us by taking it away. That said, whether the man in the protest was right or wrong, I love it when people think they are tough until some one opens fire.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: SolAquarius

Jefferson owned slaves.

Fair game.

Every culture and ethnicity in the history of the planet either owned slaves or were enslaved at some point in their history. Do you want to erase that reality?

Eradicate the issue and the problem goes away.

Until the next issue arises. Which there will be.