Seattle coronavirus survivor gets $1.1 million, 181-page hospital bill

a reply to: dawnstar

I am not against Universal Healthcare as a premise. But there is no way in hell that i will be for it in the USA until they control the costs down to something reasonable. I will never be for just having our taxes pay for the prices we are being charged now and as far as i know none of the single payer plans address this and I don't even think our government is capable of managing this at a reasonable cost.

a reply to: MRinder

! live in holland we are not discriminated by not owning money here :-)
all hospital bills are payed by the Insurance companies for 150 dollar a month cost
and if you cant pay it …. the state does it for you !!!

a reply to: MRinder

Since when are our federal taxes paying for much of anything outside of probably the interest on our debt??

But, hey, we got the best healthcare system in the world...
And no one can afford it.
At least if most of it was taken over by govt.. most of the middlemen standing between us and our healthcare would be govt employees whose salaries would be far less than the CEOs and upper management of the insurance and health provider corps are making now!!
Who knows maybe we could find a way to get rid of some of those middlemen even.

a reply to: MRinder
Insurance companies are there for profit, same as medicine in general. Most single payer are not for profit.

That is a huge difference.

Yes.

This is what you do. The exact same people do it.

There is a monster eating your brains. Socialism. Some of you like you like to equal it with communism.

Finland is some kind of a social democracy.

I need medicine. 3 months dose costs a little bit over thousand euros. I pay 4.50 euros. That is maybe 5 or 6 dollars or something.

I really mean this. First week you are saying that social style communism is going to destroy American culture and way of living.

Then a week or two goes by. You make a thread where you complain that you were rollerskating, and your wrist was fractured. Hospital bill for you is like... 4500 dollars.

I can go to health center for free and get treatment.

You are relics, fossil relics of the cold war era. Free western world, USA, against the scary soviet communists.

I will let you in on a secret if you promise not to tell anyone. You can't have the cake and eat it at the same time.

a reply to: MRinder

This is what you get when Politicians, Insurers and Providers are all in bed together under (LOL) Affordable Healthcare (ahem, cough) it allows a guaranteed 10% return for insurer, Providers are happy to charge more as it benefits insurer and pads their profit, politicians keeping the scam going get globs of $$$ for re-election.

Regular public gets screwed royally.

Instead "O" care the entire industry should have been subjected to anti-monopoly, collusion and fair trade laws until it crashed in flames.

Result Doctors and nurses back in control for 10 cents on the dollar minus the leeching bureaucracy that by design sucks lifeblood of the economy.

Thats the FIX.

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

So much for American exceptionalism, I guess.

America seems corrupt from top to bottom, maybe he is right..

It most definitely revolves around the insurance companies.

I am sure our insurance companies are not perfect, but they literally just negotiate and pay the bills. The ROOT of the problem is we are being overcharged for health services by the providers.

Example, took my son to the doctor because he had a fever and didn't feel good. They took his temp, gave him a flu test and decided he was fine and it was just going to pass. Great!

I get a bill explaining what they charged the insurance company. They charged them $2000 dollars on top of my $20 co-pay. That is ridiculous. Then they send me a bill for $17 and I don't pay it. They keep billing me then send me a letter saying they are going to send it to collections. I call them and tell them they robbed the insurance company and they can kiss my ass because I am not giving them $17 more god damn dollars on top of the $2020 they already got for a doctors visit that shouldn't have cost more than $200.

The problem is the COST! How can anyone justify $2000 for taking a kids temp, weighing them, and giving them a flu swab?

The problem is insurance and the fact they have to treat people who can't pay. There is also a lot of waste and inefficiency in the system as well due to lack of competition.

In your case, they charge $2k to the insurance company to make up for the other patients that didn't pay.

In order to lower costs, what should have happened in your case is that the doctor should have billed you directly for $200. Insurance shouldn't be paying for every little cough and sniffle in the first place. This is the problem. The public has gotten used to expecting insurance to pay for everything when it comes to healthcare.

Insurance is supposed to be for catastrophic things... i.e., your kid breaks a leg and needs surgery and it costs $15k or whatever. Insurance is not supposed to pay for an annual physical or because a kid has a fever. Instead of actual insurance, what we have now is prepaid health maintenance plans which is why the monthly premiums cost so much.

When the person receiving the service (the patient) is not actually involved in paying for the service (insurance) then you have removed the natural inclination to save money.

A simple way to think about it is like an expense account. When you have an expense account you don't think twice about ordering expensive room service at a hotel. However, if you are paying for the room yourself and don't have an expense account, you will get up off your ass and walk down the street to McDonalds. The hotels know this and they charge accordingly to capture the people who have expense accounts. Hospitals do the same thing.

I'm still trying to understand why assisted suicide isn't legal if they're going to destroy your life with the bill for saving it.

Few people, and none in positions of power, address the hundreds who die needlessly, every day, due to our monetization of ...well, everything surrounding life, but especially healthcare. Heck, we've suppressed methods of healthy living due to it not generating a profit.

I'm not a communist, but there has to be a point where the essentials are "paid" for by the community. Air, food, water, healthcare ... and I'd go as far as adding education and shelter.

The argument that "you get what you pay for" is only true because we collectively believe that and implement it. If we promoted excellence of service for excellence sake, the sky would not even be the limit.

We humans can live any way we wish. The fact we've allowed ourselves to be molded this way, attributing monetary value to life itself, is, almost, unforgivable.

originally posted by: ressiv
a reply to: MRinder

! live in holland we are not discriminated by not owning money here :-)
all hospital bills are payed by the Insurance companies for 150 dollar a month cost
and if you cant pay it …. the state does it for you !!!

The difference is Holland isn't 350 million people. You have little diversity. High taxes. Last time I checked, your military wasn't sh*t too. A big part of why the US can't afford something like universal healthcare is because we have to play the world police to keep tinpot dictators at bay since no one else wants or can step up to the plate. Our diversity of cultures and practically open borders also makes it difficult.

a reply to: MRinder

The cost is heavily inflated in America because of insurance companies though.

www.vox.com...

a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

Medical device manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies and insurance are the real money sinks. I worked for a medical device manufacturer for a couple of years. We sold forceps that cost $7 to standalone clinics for $150, and sold the same ones to non-profit hospitals for $300. We were a low-cost provider compared to the big players.

Sure, hospitals could be run more efficiently and with lower cost administrators, but that's not the root of the problem, or the biggest part of the problem.

originally posted by: MRinder

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: MRinder
a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

Thanks for posting this because it does point out that it's not so much of an insurance company problem as it is the COST of healthcare. Doctors, drug companies, and hospitals charge too damn much. If you go to single payer then I am afraid it will just get worst as the politicians line their pockets and don't address the COST.

What you're missing is the consternation expressed by the OP, as he is Canadian and to us in the Great Pink North, it's all crazy talk. Along with that is the brainwashing of our dear American cousins to accept the premise "This is America. Universal Health Care is far too complicated for us."
So much for American exceptionalism, I guess.

Almost every post you make on ATS proves American Exceptionalism. You are obsessed with what we do and trying to make some point that Canada is better, but 99.99999% of Americans don't spend a second per year thinking about Canada because Canada doesn't matter. If Canada fell off of the face of the Earth tomorrow nobody would even notice.

I will point out once again that this is an international forum. In fact, one of the 3 Amigos is a Brit. So...you are going to see international response. If that is problematic, I'm sure you can find forums where everybody agrees with you. By the way, you'll note that it was a Canadian who made the original post, and you were quick to join in the conversation.
Plus, I might argue with your stats. But I would be nice about it.

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

Johnny, I don't have a problem with Canadians or people from other countries. I have a problem with the fact that probably half of your posts are some back handed shot at my country.

Was I rude in my reply to the Canadian that started the topic? No, I was not.

I was rude to you, because you can't resist to try to demean the USA every chance you get.

You act as if you have some sort of national penis envy.

I don't find it necessary to put in a majority of my posts some kind of shot at Canada and I would appreciate it if you would stop taking shots at the USA.

originally posted by: MRinder
I don't find it necessary to put in a majority of my posts some kind of shot at Canada and I would appreciate it if you would stop taking shots at the USA.

This is a thread about American health care, started by one of my countrymen. That system should make you sad...not my comments about it.

Oh, and by the way, please save the ad hominem attacks for the mudpit. This is a discussion forum. Thanks.

It also benefits the poor who get the service and pass the bill on to everyone else... a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

originally posted by: Rob808
It also benefits the poor who get the service and pass the bill on to everyone else... a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

So what's the answer? Death panels?