Quick History: Democrats

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Gryphon66
What year did the famous and powerful racist Lyndon B. Johnson switch to the Republican Party?

Was this the President Johnson that pushed through the CIvil Rights Act?

I don't think he did.

You might want to read up on your hero.

These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.

He sounds like he had only the best intentions with that civil rights act.
Intellectual Takeout
He was a racist.
There is plenty more about him out there that is even worse.
If you scroll down to the bottom of the page, you can listen to a recording of him using the 'N' word.
He's your hero, not mine.

a reply to: butcherguy

Back then, almost everyone was a racist, especially if they were in politics. That dreaded N-word was common.

One thing I do believe is antithetical to understanding history: trying to interpret it in light of any other cultural conditions than those which existed at that time.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: butcherguy

Back then, almost everyone was a racist, especially if they were in politics. That dreaded N-word was common.

One thing I do believe is antithetical to understanding history: trying to interpret it in light of any other cultural conditions than those which existed at that time.

TheRedneck

His statement about appeasing the 'uppity negroes' while giving them nothing of real value doesn't require saying the 'N' word. He was a racist.

He didn't use the term in public either, as far as I know. If it was so 'acceptable' then, why wouldn't he use it in public, when we know he used the term in private?
We should have plenty of tapes of 'racist' Republicans using the term in public too, since so many people used the term.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: butcherguy

Back then, almost everyone was a racist, especially if they were in politics. That dreaded N-word was common.

One thing I do believe is antithetical to understanding history: trying to interpret it in light of any other cultural conditions than those which existed at that time.

TheRedneck

Exactly right, which is why I take exception to the claims (not because I love Democrats but because it's not true) that the modern Democratic Party is the same as the folks who founded the KKK, voted against the Civil Rights Act, etc.

It's just ... intellectually repulsive.

The fact is, then as now, MOST PEOPLE don't ascribe to either Party. Back then, and up into the mid 1980s ... it was considered poor manners to talk about politics, religion or sex in what we called "mixed company."

Reaganism changed that traditional sort of etiquette.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: butcherguy

Back then, almost everyone was a racist, especially if they were in politics. That dreaded N-word was common.

One thing I do believe is antithetical to understanding history: trying to interpret it in light of any other cultural conditions than those which existed at that time.

TheRedneck

Exactly right, which is why I take exception to the claims (not because I love Democrats but because it's not true) that the modern Democratic Party is the same as the folks who founded the KKK, voted against the Civil Rights Act, etc.

It's just ... intellectually repulsive.

The fact is, then as now, MOST PEOPLE don't ascribe to either Party. Back then, and up into the mid 1980s ... it was considered poor manners to talk about politics, religion or sex in what we called "mixed company."

Reaganism changed that traditional sort of etiquette.

But yet you believe the Republican party is full of those same racists....

Democrats these days practice a type of paternal racism. They treat black people like we are pets are something. They don't think we can survive on our own or have an ability to compete.

Republicans just don't give a f*ck about black folks. Personally, I am ok with that.

Like you, I was born and raised in GA in the early 70s. I am black. I always preferred the racist who was upfront and honest. At least I knew what I was dealing with. I hate the racist who smile in your face and pretend they are your friend. I find Democrats to be the latter.

a reply to: Edumakated

No. I don't believe any group is monolithic. I do see policies and their outcomes though.

Yes, I've heard. And I know you're Black so it's unquestioned usually when you make these claims, but the "keeping the Blacks on the Democratic plantation" line of reasoning is ... unsurprisingly, racist. It assumes that Black Americans can't make their own decisions, that they're motivated primary with greed for "free stuff" and that somehow, some way, in opposition to 40 years of policy, the Republicans are going to do something to help black America.

Republicans certainly do care about Black folks. They care enough to gerrymander whole districts to keep Blacks out of power. They do everything they can (like in Georgia for the last decade) to make it as hard as it can POSSIBLY BE for Black folks to vote.

Democrats use Blacks the way they use Women and Gays and all the rest of the minorities that have been splintered from focusing on CIVIL RIGHTS FOR ALL to each squabbling over their own primacy.

I've been here in Georgia too for 54 years. Most racists in my experience are more like "live and let live" ... but when certain sectors get "all uppity" as I heard a hundred times as a child, well then, that's when something has to be done. IN recent years, of course, PC culture celebrates the extremes ...

Republlicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin. As I've said here many times, I'm not defending the Democrats ... but I don't like lies either. About anybody.

While I think the revisionist history is laughable, I'm much more concerned with today's Democrats than the ones two hundred years ago. Is there no one remaining on the left with a bit of common sense? The double standards and hypocrisy are off the charts.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The policies and outcome of Democrat policies for black America have not been good. I can go down the line pointing out how black folks get the smelly end of the stick from Democrat policies.

I am not a Republican. I've voted for Democrats. I am socially liberal. I've never cared for the religious right and they kept me from voting Republican for a long time. I guess I am more libertarian than anything else.

The black community votes 95% for Democrats in spite of polices being damaging to the community. Every election it is the same old trope. Vote for Democrats, we will protect you from evil racist white people. It is getting tired. Particularly in a city like Atlanta which has blacks in political power from police chiefs to city council president to mayor since the 70s.

Every political party attempts to protect their incumbents. If you want to talk gerrymandering, go pull up an election map of Chicago and see how Democrats have drawn the craziest districts.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
While I think the revisionist history is laughable, I'm much more concerned with today's Democrats than the ones two hundred years ago. Is there no one remaining on the left with a bit of common sense? The double standards and hypocrisy are off the charts.

The only revisionist history generally on display is the tired crap about the Democratic Party starting the KKK and owning plantations.

Aside from that, what "double standards" are you concerned about, specifically?

a reply to: Gryphon66

you forgot the yellow dogs and blue dogs. not a complete picture with out them.

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: Gryphon66

The policies and outcome of Democrat policies for black America have not been good. I can go down the line pointing out how black folks get the smelly end of the stick from Democrat policies.

I am not a Republican. I've voted for Democrats. I am socially liberal. I've never cared for the religious right and they kept me from voting Republican for a long time. I guess I am more libertarian than anything else.

The black community votes 95% for Democrats in spite of polices being damaging to the community. Every election it is the same old trope. Vote for Democrats, we will protect you from evil racist white people. It is getting tired. Particularly in a city like Atlanta which has blacks in political power from police chiefs to city council president to mayor since the 70s.

Every political party attempts to protect their incumbents. If you want to talk gerrymandering, go pull up an election map of Chicago and see how Democrats have drawn the craziest districts.

Not been good? As opposed to what? What is the alternative? Republicans catering to generations of secregationalists in the South? What hasn't been good for all Americans in the last 40 years or so is being the shuttlecock that the two sides bat back and forth.

Well, feel free to talk about poor Democratic policies. This thread is for facts about the Democratic party not to defend them. Show us what you're talking about.

I see that you used a "little el" for libertarian, and I agree with that whole-heartedly. To me any political question can be solved seriously by asking a simple question ... does this favor the State (authoritarian) or the individual (libertarian.)

Both parties (and the capital El LIbertarians) have been co-opted.

Well apparently 95% of Black America doesn't see it the way you do, and I'm not being snide in that. I think most Black folks see what I see ... of the two Parties, the Democrats at least are still TALKING ABOUT civil rights and equality before the law. Blacks in political power don't end racism. You know that as well as I do. You also know that the police unions are right-wing and have been. THAT fact is what has continued to corrupt the police departments.

I'd love to see Black Americans, and White Americans and ... my preferences ALL AMERICANS leave the two-party bullpucks behind for good.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: Gryphon66

you forgot the yellow dogs and blue dogs. not a complete picture with out them.

Great. Add them in.

a reply to: Gryphon66

i think this will help explain both, wiki's cause their fast.

The term “Blue Dog Democrat” is credited to Texas Democratic representative Pete Geren (who later joined the Bush Administration). Geren opined that the members had been “choked blue” by Democrats on the left.[13] It is related to the political term “Yellow Dog Democrat”, a reference to Southern Democrats said to be ‘so loyal they would even vote for a yellow dog before they would vote for any Republican’. The term also refers to the “Blue Dog” paintings of Cajun artist George Rodrigue of Lafayette, Louisiana as the original members of the coalition would regularly meet in the offices of Louisiana representatives Billy Tauzin and Jimmy Hayes, both of whom later joined the Republican Party – both also had Rodrigue’s paintings on their walls.[14][15] An additional explanation for the term cited by members is "when dogs are not let into the house, they stay outside in the cold and turn blue", a reference to the Blue Dogs’ belief they had been left out of a party that they believed had shifted to the political left.[16]
Blue Dog Coalition

and each ones wiki,
Yellow dog Democrat
Blue Dog Coalition

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: Gryphon66

The policies and outcome of Democrat policies for black America have not been good. I can go down the line pointing out how black folks get the smelly end of the stick from Democrat policies.

I am not a Republican. I've voted for Democrats. I am socially liberal. I've never cared for the religious right and they kept me from voting Republican for a long time. I guess I am more libertarian than anything else.

The black community votes 95% for Democrats in spite of polices being damaging to the community. Every election it is the same old trope. Vote for Democrats, we will protect you from evil racist white people. It is getting tired. Particularly in a city like Atlanta which has blacks in political power from police chiefs to city council president to mayor since the 70s.

Every political party attempts to protect their incumbents. If you want to talk gerrymandering, go pull up an election map of Chicago and see how Democrats have drawn the craziest districts.

Not been good? As opposed to what? What is the alternative? Republicans catering to generations of secregationalists in the South? What hasn't been good for all Americans in the last 40 years or so is being the shuttlecock that the two sides bat back and forth.

Well, feel free to talk about poor Democratic policies. This thread is for facts about the Democratic party not to defend them. Show us what you're talking about.

I see that you used a "little el" for libertarian, and I agree with that whole-heartedly. To me any political question can be solved seriously by asking a simple question ... does this favor the State (authoritarian) or the individual (libertarian.)

Both parties (and the capital El LIbertarians) have been co-opted.

Well apparently 95% of Black America doesn't see it the way you do, and I'm not being snide in that. I think most Black folks see what I see ... of the two Parties, the Democrats at least are still TALKING ABOUT civil rights and equality before the law. Blacks in political power don't end racism. You know that as well as I do. You also know that the police unions are right-wing and have been. THAT fact is what has continued to corrupt the police departments.

I'd love to see Black Americans, and White Americans and ... my preferences ALL AMERICANS leave the two-party bullpucks behind for good.

Where do I begin;

War on Poverty: The welfare state has led to the destruction of the black family over 50 years. It is directly correlated with the 75% out of wedlock birthrate.

School Choice: Keeping blacks trapped in poor performing public schools with no alternatives to satisfy the teachers unions

Gun Control: Should be obvious.

Immigration: Importing low skilled workers hurts the black community the most. One of the reasons teenage unemployment is so high in black community. It depresses wages.

Minimum Wage: Locks out the least skilled (teens) from gaining first jobs to build skills to move up in the work force

I can keep going...

a reply to: Edumakated

The "welfare state" has led to the destruction of the Black family? I call BS. For the last decade I have lived in middle-class neighborhoods in and around Emory University that have Black, White, Asian, Latino and any other combinations of families. Some of the strongest families I know are Black and many have benefited from various "welfare state" programs over the years. That's a blanket, grossly-exaggerated statement.

How are Blacks kept trapped in public schools again? I'll be the first to lay considerably blame at the feet of the public education systems in the US ... but you'll have to point to specific Democratic policies if you want to sell me on that one.

Gun Control? Should be obvious but it's not, so enlighten us.

"Importing law skilled workers"? By allowing immigration to the US? Again, show some evidence.

Minimum wage? The minimum wage hasn't been anywhere close to a living wage in multiple decades. Look to corporations obsessed with continually maximized profits if you want to see the problem with entry level jobs in this country.

Sure ... keep going. SO far you're just reciting typical right-wing claptrap without pointing to a SINGLE actual Democratic policy that causes these ills you're complaining about.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

There is no interest in either party to acknowledge where most Americans stand ... which is not on either "side."

Most Americans are independent.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: butcherguy

Back then, almost everyone was a racist, especially if they were in politics. That dreaded N-word was common.

One thing I do believe is antithetical to understanding history: trying to interpret it in light of any other cultural conditions than those which existed at that time.

TheRedneck

Exactly right, which is why I take exception to the claims (not because I love Democrats but because it's not true) that the modern Democratic Party is the same as the folks who founded the KKK, voted against the Civil Rights Act, etc.

It's just ... intellectually repulsive.

The fact is, then as now, MOST PEOPLE don't ascribe to either Party. Back then, and up into the mid 1980s ... it was considered poor manners to talk about politics, religion or sex in what we called "mixed company."

Reaganism changed that traditional sort of etiquette.

But yet you believe the Republican party is full of those same racists....

Democrats these days practice a type of paternal racism. They treat black people like we are pets are something. They don't think we can survive on our own or have an ability to compete.

Republicans just don't give a f*ck about black folks. Personally, I am ok with that.

Like you, I was born and raised in GA in the early 70s. I am black. I always preferred the racist who was upfront and honest. At least I knew what I was dealing with. I hate the racist who smile in your face and pretend they are your friend. I find Democrats to be the latter.

I think I've heard it best described as 'the soft bigotry of low expectations.'

Democrats oppose voter suppression because an 'ID is required' basically translates to 'Minorities are too dumb to get an ID.'

Democrats champion Affirmative Action and job quotas basically translates to 'Minorities need help getting good jobs.'

Democrats deny school choice, basically translates to 'Minorities can't be trusted to pick the right school for their kids.'

I don't think anyone actually believes those statements when they are translated bluntly, but in effect that is what the Democrat party is promoting with their policies.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The only revisionist history generally on display is the tired crap about the Democratic Party starting the KKK and owning plantations.

And here we go...

Gryph, you certainly have a way about you; I'll grant you that. Here you start a thread with at least some prospect of actually being honest... and you even go so far as to present some willingness to accept facts that I start putting forward. But then, when those facts start to dig too deeply into your personal ideology, you go off the rails and start spouting stuff like the above.

This time, I was expecting it. I may be an old dog, but I do still learn. It just takes longer.

The plantation owners of old were Democrats, after they were Democratic Republicans. The KKK was composed of Democrats and the national organization was formed as a direct attack on Republican policies after the War of Northern Aggression. Both hated the Republicans because it was the Republicans, under Lincoln, who destroyed the South. That's actual history, not "revisionist history."

Edumakated is making some good points that I can respect; I am particularly interested in hearing what he has to say. I have lost all interest in hearing what you have to say. Why? Because your idea of what constitutes a "fact" is what Gryphon66 believes. Your idea of "proof" is the production of something someone else has posted on the open canvas known as "the Internet" as long as it corroborates your position and not someone else's.

You may have grown up in the South, but you certainly weren't paying attention.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Edumakated

The "welfare state" has led to the destruction of the Black family? I call BS. For the last decade I have lived in middle-class neighborhoods in and around Emory University that have Black, White, Asian, Latino and any other combinations of families. Some of the strongest families I know are Black and many have benefited from various "welfare state" programs over the years. That's a blanket, grossly-exaggerated statement.

How are Blacks kept trapped in public schools again? I'll be the first to lay considerably blame at the feet of the public education systems in the US ... but you'll have to point to specific Democratic policies if you want to sell me on that one.

Gun Control? Should be obvious but it's not, so enlighten us.

"Importing law skilled workers"? By allowing immigration to the US? Again, show some evidence.

Minimum wage? The minimum wage hasn't been anywhere close to a living wage in multiple decades. Look to corporations obsessed with continually maximized profits if you want to see the problem with entry level jobs in this country.

Sure ... keep going. SO far you're just reciting typical right-wing claptrap without pointing to a SINGLE actual Democratic policy that causes these ills you're complaining about.

WELFARE STATE:

The welfare state promoted single motherhood. You can't get benefits unless the father is not in the home. Go look up the Moynihan Report from 50 years ago. It was written by Democrat Senator Daniel Moynihan who was also a sociologist. At the time, the black out of wedlock birth rate was around 23% and it was setting off alarms. It is now around 75%.

Pretty much all of the dysfunction in the black community today can be tied to the high out of wedlock birth rate. There have been countless studies done showing that kids raised in single parent homes fair worse on every metric except odds of being a rapper or pro-athlete.

The lack of father figures is the problem.

PUBLIC SCHOOLS:

Democrats are against school choice because they are beholden to the teachers unions. Blacks are overwhelmingly stuck in poor performing public schools. Most blacks actually favor school choice but Democrats give more support to teachers unions. You guys lick the boots of teachers unions so bad, Obama actually shut down a high performing charter school in DC in true hypocrite fashion considering he had the luxury of sending his kids to exclusive private schools.

GUN CONTROL:

You don't think the black community wants the right to defend itself? Where is crime highly concentrated?

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION:

This suppresses wages of low skilled jobs. Blacks are often over represented in those jobs so it is us who are hurt most by importing low skilled immigrants.

MINIMUM WAGE:

In same vein as illegal immigration. It hurts those who need employment most. Economist Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams have written extensively on this topic. Maybe read a book or two. The black employment rate during the early 1900s was actually higher than whites primarily because blacks would work for less. This is actually what drove minimum wage. It was racist in it's origin to keep blacks from being able to undercut white men in labor cost.

Here is Walter Williams explaining although I doubt you'll listen...




Again, pretty much every policy the Democrat party pushes, I can show how it is detrimental to the black community.