Seattle - driver shoots protestor. Crime or Justified?

a reply to: Antipathy17

HEY! LISTEN!!! sorry couldn't help myself.

Protecting yourself is justifiable, shooting in cold blood is not. This would not have happened if the protestors got off the damn streets and stuck to the sidewalks, they are stilfing the roadways for the few workers who can actually go to work like doctors, EMT's, firefighters etc.

Protest responsibly, there is no need to disrupt peoples lives because one black man got shot. Do you see white people marching on the streets after an incident like this? the incident went viral, that is why. Police Brutality end of story.

originally posted by: KnoxMSP
www.kuow.org...
www.capitolhillseattle.com... s-life/

A little new info coming out. Interview with friend from HS, and now appearantly he has a family member who works for the SPD. Also, I was wrong, the weapon was a Glock 26, a double stack 9mm (10+1 mag).

twitter.com... .capitolhillseattle.com%2F2020%2F06%2Fhis-brother-works-here-at-this-precinct-police-say-capitol-hill-protest-shooting-suspect-was-fearing-for-his-lif e%2F

Looks like he was chased onto the road where the incident happened, and the road was NOT barricaded. What lead to that I am unaware. He also slows down multiple times to avoid hitting pedestrians. Going to be hard to say he was out to hurt people.

Talked to people who are in that area about this the other day. This is what I was told happened. The "protestors" have been moving barricades and harassing cars and passerby trying to instigate violence to catch on camera and upload to media platforms like Twitter framed in a manner that makes it look like they are the victims.

This one just didn't work out for them the way they thought it would.

originally posted by: AutomateThis1

originally posted by: KnoxMSP
www.kuow.org...
www.capitolhillseattle.com... s-life/

A little new info coming out. Interview with friend from HS, and now appearantly he has a family member who works for the SPD. Also, I was wrong, the weapon was a Glock 26, a double stack 9mm (10+1 mag).

twitter.com... .capitolhillseattle.com%2F2020%2F06%2Fhis-brother-works-here-at-this-precinct-police-say-capitol-hill-protest-shooting-suspect-was-fearing-for-his-lif e%2F

Looks like he was chased onto the road where the incident happened, and the road was NOT barricaded. What lead to that I am unaware. He also slows down multiple times to avoid hitting pedestrians. Going to be hard to say he was out to hurt people.

Talked to people who are in that area about this the other day. This is what I was told happened. The "protestors" have been moving barricades and harassing cars and passerby trying to instigate violence to catch on camera and upload to media platforms like Twitter framed in a manner that makes it look like they are the victims.

This one just didn't work out for them the way they thought it would.

You're entitled to your opinion but I 100% disagree with what you said. Seattle protestors are not faking anything. That's absurd. Seattle is making lots of progress. Post some of these fake victim Twitter links, let's take a look. Sounds concerning because Seattle protestors want to expose fake groups, and they have already. So please share. Please.

originally posted by: Pilgrum
This crazy was looking for trouble by driving through a crowd of pedestrians and he found it alright.
Shooting the unarmed guy who might have been trying to take the car keys to prevent any further motorised shenanigans was excessive force and the shooter will have a lot of new friends behind bars if there's any real justice applied.

The other ridiculous thing is a news article claimed he was on his way to work at a Nike store which all of them are closed for coronavirus, and this guy had a loaded gun on his passenger seat driving to work? The closet Nike store is in downtown and he was on Capitol Hill which has had big protests for a week and he went to Ballard High?!?! How could he be so clueless being a local? There is no excuse.

There are multiple stands of free food and medic stands on 11th that he was driving down with a massive very loud crowd at the intersection that the street lights had black tape over them so they wouldn't get damaged by the police. Street lights are off. Why he would accelerate down that street??? He went to Ballard High! Nike store is downtown. He is on Capitol Hill. Driving on a street with medic stands and food/water stands on the whole block all the way up to the protestors chanting protest songs and multiple people banging drums and buckets, and others on loudspeakers and this Ballard High graduate drove into that!!! With a loaded gun on his passenger seat?!?!

Tomorrow he is supposed to be in court again and he might get charged with assault in the first degree.

a reply to: game over man

I've already made it clear that I used to work closely with these leftist groups in my youth. I know their tactics and strategies quite well.

If you want to see an example of how this is used go back to the OP and view the videos.

I saw this thread yesterday, and refrained from commenting until I heard back from some people I know there. That's right. I know people who are taking part in these protests. Some may even be the people you are talking about. I am quite aware that they are working to expose Antifa and their ilk. Unfortunately for you, they may be working against what you wish to be true.

The events leading up to what was caught on video was described to me as this. Some individuals had moved barricades and this man happened to be caught up in the corralling procedure. From there you can basically follow what happened afterwards on video.

What I have learned about this event is from people I know and trust who are actually there. It is not my opinion. You are free to 100% disagree with me.

Although, it does seem that you are contradicting yourself here. You say that Seattle protestors are not faking anything, and then you say that Seattle protestors are already exposing fakes. So, which is it?

When I use the word protestors in quotations I'm not talking about the protestors who are actually there to protest. I'm talking about the individuals who are there under the guise of being protestors to cause problems.

By the way it seems like "Seattle is making lots of progress" indeed. Although, progress isn't exactly what I would call it. We'll see how long their "Autonomous Zone" lasts lmao.

a reply to: AutomateThis1

Bro I was there when it happened, and left shortly after. I was on the north side of the intersection passed the stairs to cal Anderson and I had to run a bit when the crowd dispersed. If the car wasn't stopped I would have been in grave danger. There were so many people not everyone knew what was going on. Before that happening people were talking about instigators on the scene and the protest organizers for that day were on the loudspeaker warning about instigators somewhere on the scene.

So many of you are not from Seattle. You're calling Bumpershoot and Capitol Hill Block party concert goers Antifa terrorists. It is the most ridiculous thing to read.

a reply to: AutomateThis1

Protestors are exposing and continuing to search for more fake BLM groups scamming through fundraisers, proving so by the groups not being registered with the state or connected with Seattle King County BLM chapter. They are spreading this information through social media to make sure protestors don't go to those marches and protests because there may be violence and do not donate money to them. Seattle people are on it bro!

a reply to: AutomateThis1

Glad you're laughing at autonomus zone because it was made by artist/hipsters who are not violent, unlike the SPD. It's supposed to be tongue and cheek. This is Seattle, birthplace of grunge.

a reply to: game over man

Mmhm. Show me where I said that everyone there was an Antifa terrorist.

The truth is that there were instigators there, and for whatever reason you're denying it, even though people were there warning about instigators being there.

So, let me get this right.

You're telling me that there were organizers warning about instigators being there, and then when the instigators, who I have good sources saying that these very same instigators were moving barricades and harrassing vehicles(which is a known tactic) corralled this vehicle with the man inside. That you think that the instigators magically weren't there, and that this man who was probably pretty on edge being surrounded by people beating on his car, and reaching inside grabbing him, and trying to pull him out, that the guy caught up in it is the bad guy?

You may have been there, but you don't have eyes everywhere.

Maybe instead of making that man scared or whatever people should have just cleared a path, and peacefully made a way for him to get out of the area. Also. He wasn't barreling down the road. If he was he would have definitely hit a lot of people. The guy even turned himself into police.

And this whole he had a gun in his passenger seat thing doesn't lead credence to any sort or preemptive planning of an attack. I know a lot of people who carry guns in their car and guess where it ends up a lot of times? The passenger seat.

There's no proof that it was even in the passenger seat. It could have been in the center console for all it matters. Hell, myself I have a 9mm in the center console or passenger seat. It's loaded with a 17 round magazine plus one in the chamber, and then I have two more 17 round mags in the door or on my belt.

Look, if he had actually been there to shoot people he had more than enough opportunity to go on a shooting spree, but he fired once, got out of his car, and turned himself in.

You may have been there in person, but that doesn't mean you actually saw everything that happened. You only saw what your own two eyes and fear led you to believe is what happened.

I talked to three guys that were there when the car got redirected into the street, and another two guys who were there when the guy fired his weapon.

The first three guys were watching another group moving barricades, and the group that moved the barricade and corralled the car in was behind them. By the time they turned around the car was already getting attacked. They did the smart thing and stayed away from the car. The two guys who were closer to the scene where the car was heading had already moved out of the way. The video they showed me is practically the same as what you see from the videos you see in the OP, but at street level and kind of obscured by people running around.

So, that's what I was told happened. From multiple people who were there. But you probably won't like it, because it doesn't corroborate with what you perceive to be true.

I just don't know what your hang up is about being told that there were instigators there, and that there aren't any "fake groups" but then you also say that the "fake groups" are being exposed, because the only thing you have to say that I'm wrong is just you saying that I'm wrong.

Which honestly I could care less if you think I'm wrong, because it seems to me you were lost in the "fog of war" or lack of situational awareness.

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: AutomateThis1

Glad you're laughing at autonomus zone because it was made by artist/hipsters who are not violent, unlike the SPD. It's supposed to be tongue and cheek. This is Seattle, birthplace of grunge.

Yeah yeah, we all know.

Maybe you guys should have care more about who was running the show before things got bad. Do any of yall even participate in politics or do you just wait until things get bad to let out all of your angst.

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: AutomateThis1

Protestors are exposing and continuing to search for more fake BLM groups scamming through fundraisers, proving so by the groups not being registered with the state or connected with Seattle King County BLM chapter. They are spreading this information through social media to make sure protestors don't go to those marches and protests because there may be violence and do not donate money to them. Seattle people are on it bro!

Look, I really don't have anything against you, and I'm glad you guys are on it. Just realize that this whole car and shooting thing may not have happened the way you think it did.

There are people at all of these protests trying to incite violence.

From the information I've gathered this incident was an unfortunate one, but it could have gone a lot worse if the guy was actually there to go on a shooting spree.

a reply to: AutomateThis1

We're saying very similar things except that you think that guy honestly accidentally drove down 11th towards the protesters? By accident?

Are you also saying the people who stopped his car from going into the crowd, were the actual instigators? How does that work?

What is making you think that a car from 11th could have turned left onto Pine at that time? You realize a car could not physically take a right up Pine because of the police barricade?

Haha I missed the fact he lives in Greenlake. What was he doing on the Hill?

You're kinda suspect bro with this whole, "I know you are incapable of thinking this way."

a reply to: game over man

No, this is good. It's kind of like we are getting to the bottom of this.

I'm not saying he "accidentally" drove down the road. I'm saying that from what I was told the instigators are the ones who corralled the guy forcing him onto that road, and once on that road he had only one way to go and that was straight, at which point when he got to the intersection with the protestors he stopped.

It's likely that the people beating on the car and reaching into the car weren't instigators, but were caught in the heat of the moment.

I wasn't there. So, all I can rely on is what I've heard. I'm trying not to totally dismiss what you are saying.

How do you think he got on that road then? If there was a police barricade at 11th and Pine did the police just let him drive on by? I don't think that's likely.

At what part of 11th did this take place? Did it happen at the East Olive intersection? Or at the East Howell intersection? I didn't ask and wasn't told at what intersection it happened at. Were there police barricades at those intersections as well? Because in the videos I've seen it didn't look like there was.

As far as him living in Green Lake that's not actually all that far from Capitol Hill.

Which still leads to the shooting. If he was really there to shoot the place up, why did he only shoot once, and then run off to turn himself in?
Most of the time, almost every single time a person goes on a shooting spree it ends in either a standoff in which the shooter is shot down or the shooter commits suicide.

I have experience with this from my training in the military, and what I see is a guy who has acted in self-defense and then turned himself him. Which is what you are required to do by law, in some places you are even required to call emergency services to get an ambulance and police unit on the way. In his situation that's not actually feasible so he does the next best thing and just turns himself in.

He shoots once, gets out of his car, looks to be searching for a way out, gets out, turns himself in.

a reply to: game over man

You are so intellectually dishonest, it’s gross.

The video CLEARLY shows the driver being attacked and speeding up, THEN he slows down as he approaches the person (who then kicked his car).

Look- this happened to me in Portland. Animals, idiotic heathens, ordering ME to turn the direction THEY ordered.

WELL YOU KNOW WHAT? I carry. And I will GLADLY shoot some idiot who puts his hands on me in my car at a mass gathering, especially in light of recent riots and violence.

Screw BLM. And if you’re on their side, you need to rethink your life. Because the word pathetic doesn’t begin to cover supporters of this madness.

a reply to: AutomateThis1

Oh I see what you are saying, but the defense lawyer should have said that. All his defense attorney said was he was lost. The protest was at the intersection of 11th and Pine. Most of pine was closed off. The street lights were all tapped up. From like 14th or 15th down to Broadway. Forgot to mention there were reports of instigators on 14th and 15th but I'm not sure on the details of that. Did you hear about that?

I'm not sure there were barriers blocking pine and Broadway, I can't remember. But on pine up to Broadway it was just people and booths/tables.

I walked briefly around pike off 11th, I can't remember if pike was completely closed.

If you live in Greenlake and work at Nike you wouldn't be up on the Hill, map it out. So what was he doing on the Hill? There's protests and coronavirus. When I check the store hours for Nike, all the stores are closed. This shooting was also around 8pm on Sunday. So I'm skeptical.

The video footage is scary, then the footage gets weird. So maybe he was planning an attack and got scared? It's weird. Then his defense is weird. That's how I feel. It's scary and weird.

People in Seattle care about the guy who was shot, he's doing ok, they care about police and community reform. There's concern about the protestor who got shot in the stomach by a flash grenade or tear gas canister whatever it was, later that same night, she is not doing well last I heard. There's actually a lot more things people are talking about on social media other than the shooter to be honest.

We'll have to see what tomorrow brings.

a reply to: game over man

Was he, indeed?

Then why, then, did he stop after shooting the guy trying to attack him through the car window??

Seems to me, he'd have kept right on goin'...

GameOver thinks stores don't hire security to secure their property in the midst of protests, because they are closed...


LMAO. Ok...


Dude, there are multiple videos, that I have posted, that show him chased before he got on that road. You are either intellectually dishonest, or willfully ignorant, as I posted the links and sources for you to see, GameOver.

a reply to: AutomateThis1

What I have learned about this event is from people I know and trust who are actually there. It is not my opinion. You are free to 100% disagree with me.

You’re right, it’s not your opinion. It’s anecdotal and carries precisely zero weight as evidence in any debate when that’s all you have to offer. Maybe your stories are true, maybe they’re not, but they can’t really stand on their own no matter how often you say “this is true, I know people.”

How do you think he got on that road then? If there was a police barricade at 11th and Pine did the police just let him drive on by? I don't think that's likely. At what part of 11th did this take place? Did it happen at the East Olive intersection? Or at the East Howell intersection? I didn't ask and wasn't told at what intersection it happened at. Were there police barricades at those intersections as well? Because in the videos I've seen it didn't look like there was.

It happened between the intersection of 11th and Pine and the intersection of 12th and Pine. 12th was closed between Pike and Pine by police, with barricades. Pine was closed, and remains closed, for the protest between 11th and 12th. 11th between Pike and Pine was being used by protestors as a “staging area.” From the videos it appears that our ironworker turned right on to 11th from Pike, and then turned right on to Pine headed towards 12th. 11th, 12th, and Pine have been closed essentially since protests started. Pike appears to have been left open for travel. It also appears that while the driver turned off an open road on to a closed road, he was already being chased when he made that turn.

I don’t believe the driver’s story given to police. I don’t believe he’s unfamiliar with the area and unless he’s been under a rock, he would have known that area was filled with protestors. Even google maps shows the road closures. That said, I find it highly suspect that the only video that’s come out is video that shows him driving on to or down closed roads, and no video has surfaced showing the initial encounter on Pike that lead to him being chased down the road. Establishing that is going to be the key to clearing him or condemning him.

a reply to: Shamrock6

That said, I find it highly suspect that the only video that’s come out is video that shows him driving on to or down closed roads, and no video has surfaced showing the initial encounter on Pike that lead to him being chased down the road. Establishing that is going to be the key to clearing him or condemning him.

That is the all important part here.
If you notice in the video he drives past parked cars. There were cars there... maybe from days ago. He may have already had his car parked there for days, visiting a friend, whatever. Maybe he needed to go to work and how do you do that if the streets are blocked off at both ends? There were flyers on his windshield, which may indicate that he had his car parked at the demonstration location for a period of time before the incident took place.

a reply to: butcherguy

My understanding is that “local traffic” has been permitted on the roads. There are apartments in the area and those residents have been allowed to come and go, but not through traffic. If he was already in the area, I think he’d have been less likely to try and go down those roads, honestly, so I think he was coming from elsewhere.

Also, directed at thread participants in general not you specifically: before anybody asks, no I’m not going to provide sources. My previous comment/explanation of route was gleaned from dozens of articles, even more twitter posts, and various mapping services. Seattle PDs Twitter is garbage for information but has some. The Seattle/King County transit twitter has done an excellent job of posting closures, protest routes, protest hot spots, etc. Beyond that, searching for individual street names on twitter yields decent results as long as you avoid getting sucked into the partisan crap. So while I can’t provide specific sources, those methods are how I got the information.