Minneapolis City Council set to disband the city's police department

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
I've yet so see a compelling argument as to how and why this will work. So if anyone on ATS has any insight on the proposed nuts and bolts of this plan, by all means....share.

I actually heard quite a compelling argument today. First you have to get beyond the Right vs Left screaming match.

"Defund Police" is actually not a proposal to do away with the police and if people ignore the noise and listen it's rather logical.

The idea as I gather it, is more of a reorganization from the ground up.

Police are often used for things they should not be involved in. There are times when a person with a badge and a gun are the wrong answer. One example was responding to a person with a known mental illness. Rather than having a cop show up, scare them, anger them and make matters worse, a mental health professional would instead respond. A person with the knowledge and skill needed to deal with the person and defuse the situation.

Would these mental health experts have the means to defend themselves from crazies or would they just be left to fend for themselves? I don't see anything good coming from this.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Traffic cams to police those violations have been found to be problematic by courts in other states. So that solution could be an issue. We used to have them here, but they get struck down in court and pretty much had to be dismantled.

I know the speed cameras around here never got past the pilot program due to accuracy problems. I'm pretty sure it wasn't just us. So yeah, that could be a problem. There are still some red light cameras around, but I'm not sure where. I don't run across them in my travels.

The red-light cameras they have in Minneapolis now are not totally self-operating, but I'm not sure exactly how that works. And I think they might still be on a pilot program as well.

originally posted by: DanDanDat
Maybe it is time to push law enforcement closer to the local level. Let each locality decide best how they want to police their citizens. Decentralization of power will make it difficult for bad eliminates with in the police force to gain more power leading to less corruption....

... in some places; but thats the trade off. Minneapolis might be able to engineer a utopian police force; but some other locations might decide they prefer a heavy handed police force.


Do the same things with laws as well.

Neighborhood security? Yeah, nothing could go wrong there.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Blaine91555

It’s a mixed bag. There are some groups that say “okay we’re going to defund them by removing all of their mental health/crisis intervention training and put that into another agency that actually deals with mental health.” Which is great. For too long late enforcement has been left holding the bag for things society can’t figure out how to deal with. It’s absurd that people have no other immediate option for help in a mental health crisis than calling the cops. That’s pure insanity. So things like that are a good idea.

The problem is when you have other groups like in LA that want to slash LAPD’s budget to 1/10th of what it is now. Now I’m fully aware that LA has practically no crime, but a cut like that seems a bit much.

People want good law enforcement officers then people need to stop expecting their police department to act as society’s garbage disposal for the things society can’t or won’t deal with. You want good cops, then train your cops to be good cops, don’t train them to be mental health intervention specialists.

Listen to any big city scanner for a night. They tend to call the police for the dumbest things. "My son is being disrespectful, I want him out of my house!"

a reply to: AgarthaSeed

So it says they plan to disband the police department and have the sheriff's department pick up most of the slack (except for mental health, medical and traffic cases). The Minneapolis Metro area (which is the area to be affected) had a population of about 3.28 million back in 2010 (can't find a current count).

Seems like the sheriff's department would then be forced (by necessity) to hire most of the Minneapolis Metro police that just lost their jobs due to the disbanding and all county taxes would have to be raised tremendously to cover salaries, equipment and operating costs.

Congratulations Minneapolis Metro! You will now be paying twice as much for what you already have!

a reply to: Boadicea

It's the complete lack of a plan that I find troubling.

Disbanding without a clear plan will lead to what...if disorder ensues?

Even a little disorder can be amplified by the media and used to explain/justify a national military police system. That would take policing out of the hands of communities, entirely.

Moving forward with this is a very bad idea.

There must be a plan and we just don't know about it. That's what's going on.

originally posted by: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk
Congratulations Minneapolis Metro! You will now be paying twice as much for what you already have!

How bizarre...ok, if that's the plan, I need to look into why the sheriff's department is 'better' than the police department at doing the same job.

im pretty sure the police union will have something to say about this what with them having contracts and all , i wonder if it will go to the supreme court? www.mppoa.com... think this is the state wide union not just for the city though

so will be interesting to see how the "community policing" options go and who will be funding them and how that will compare across communities.


does this mean if there is a mass shooting only sheriffs can respond? and i assume they are getting rid of school resource officers as well?

Insane.... over an issue that may or may not have been racially motivated. I suppose the real racists (both sides) will come out of the wood works now

I always thought it would be Detroit where Ed 209 would be launched.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Boadicea

It's the complete lack of a plan that I find troubling.

If I thought the same, I would agree. But Minneapolis has been working on policing reforms for some time. Maybe not in the context of disbanding the entire department, but they have a good idea of what's not working. And quite honestly, I don't think they would be even considering disbanding the police if they had not met with complete and total resistance to reforms, and were not certain that it's complete insanity to keep doing what they've been doing.

Disbanding without a clear plan will lead to what...if disorder ensues?

Obviously, disbanding the existing law enforcement without providing for new law enforcement would not work out well. I really don't see any sign that's going to happen.

Even a little disorder can be amplified by the media and used to explain/justify a national military police system. That would take policing out of the hands of communities, entirely.

That cannot happen. The Constitutionally elected Sheriff has jurisdiction in every square inch of the county. The Feds cannot usurp the Sheriff's power, and the Feds cannot force Sheriffs to enforce any federal laws or actions. The city of Minneapolis can request that the Sheriff provides policing services if necessary and/or desired.

Moving forward with this is a very bad idea.

There must be a plan and we just don't know about it. That's what's going on.

Well, I think they probably do have something of a plan, borne of their efforts at police reform, but now being adapted to a new policing program. They've stated that they intend to get the input of the people in the process, so they aren't rushing ahead with anything. I'm sure they'll look at other cities which have disbanded their police, and see how those cities went about it, what worked and what didn't and what can be tweaked and so on.

I refuse to believe that anyone has to be held hostage by bad policing because there are no better alternatives. There are always better alternatives. We just have to find them and develop them.

Sad and pathetic attempt at criminals to advocate for police disbandment, so that they can continue to run amok with no chance of repercussions. It confuses me how this municipal government could be dumb enough to entertain such a notion--it leads me to believe that it may even be purposeful so that they can give the "people" what they want and let the sh*t hit the fan...kinda like a child continually wanting to touch a hot stove-top, who is told no by their parents but they finally let them touch it to learn their lesson.

~Sovereign

humm, so if whilst in this limbo state what would the mayor do if the Po;ice union said "OK, we will stay home until you have a plan"

No point in Risking police lives if they are going to be disbanded soon is it.

www.minnpost.com... guess the pension had been being fought over before this and had issues already

t’s been called Minnesota’s hidden budget deficit. The state’s pension plans — which cover retirement benefits for about a half a million teachers, fire fighters, police officers and other state and local government employees in Minnesota — are underfunded by billions of dollars over the next several decades. It’s not a new problem: Minnesota has had pension liabilities each year for nearly a decade. But pension issues are often an ignored story, even as problems with the plans are starting to affect credit ratings and the everyday work of state and local governments across the country. Without a solution, ultimately, taxpayers are on the hook to cover what the state can’t.

seems tax payers are already on the hook for it even before this and i assume if the cops are summarily fired or dismissed the city can expect lawsuits on top of the ones they have already

mnpera.org... here is the details of their retirement plans (police and fire mainly) and you need to navigate many menus to even find info but per one of their links on the page they pay out close to 2 billion a year in benefits to police and fire members throw in it being underfunded already and well this could become a huge snowball of an issue as i would imagine lawsuits over this pop up let alone if other PD's decide to just say screw it and come down with a bad case of the " blue flu" and just straight up refuse to respond to 911 calls ,throw in SCOTUS rulings that outline that the police are under no obligation to actually protect you and things could get bad fast

www.startribune.com... link covering pension issues going back to 2010

en.wikipedia.org... this is the sherrifs department that oversees the area of Minneapolis which has its own issues that may irk protestors or those wanting to abolish the police so to speak but will be much harder as the head sheriff is an elected official ,those that wanted to abolish the PD may find it amusing the department who sent deputies to SD to put down protestors against the dakota pipeline is now in charge of policing in Minneapolis ,could not find the number of deputies but MN pd had 800ish cops and 300 civilian employees

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Many of you ar acting so smug over this, but have you actually thought about what it means if it works?

It is undeniable that we have over-equipped our police and made sure there are little to no repercussions when they negligently use those military-grade tools.

You could argue this is just the pendulum swinging back after giving the police a reckless amount of power. At the same time, it is also bringing law enforcement back to the community level. Something I have seen many long for.

It's going to be like putting in a substitute teacher in a classroom, sooner or later chit's gonna hit the fan. Multiple persons mixed qualifications in different departments. LOL police response times aren't that great, to begin with. Neighborhood watches? what could wrong with that? no chance for racism or corruption LOL. Watch businesses leave in droves, any way and definitely if this is implemented.

originally posted by: HalWesten

originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
I've yet so see a compelling argument as to how and why this will work. So if anyone on ATS has any insight on the proposed nuts and bolts of this plan, by all means....share.

I actually heard quite a compelling argument today. First you have to get beyond the Right vs Left screaming match.

"Defund Police" is actually not a proposal to do away with the police and if people ignore the noise and listen it's rather logical.

The idea as I gather it, is more of a reorganization from the ground up.

Police are often used for things they should not be involved in. There are times when a person with a badge and a gun are the wrong answer. One example was responding to a person with a known mental illness. Rather than having a cop show up, scare them, anger them and make matters worse, a mental health professional would instead respond. A person with the knowledge and skill needed to deal with the person and defuse the situation.

Would these mental health experts have the means to defend themselves from crazies or would they just be left to fend for themselves? I don't see anything good coming from this.

Well. The city will buy them a car to get around. Then I guess they city will have to buy them armor of some sort. Or you can call it personal protective equipment if it makes you feel better. Then the city will have to fit the provided car with the means to restrain the individual, and protect the mental health expert. Then, in bad situations. The mental health expert might need a taser or a sleeping dart gun....

Hey. Wait.......

a reply to: Boadicea

Blaine presented it in a way that made me think I may have been a bit rash on the whole idea overall.

I'm actually genuinely curious to see what comes of it.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Boadicea

Blaine presented it in a way that made me think I may have been a bit rash on the whole idea overall.

I'm actually genuinely curious to see what comes of it.

Intriguing! Now I need to hunt up Blaine's comment...

I'm still trying to figure this out along with everyone else. I'm happy to read a better perspective -- thank you!

a reply to: infolurker


He was Known as the Kentucky Redneck ..............)