Back to Work Bonus instead of Unemployment benefit

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Ummm... I just want to be clear here... are you saying we should have shut down the economy before the pandemic materialized? Maybe in 2017? 2018?

Otherwise, I'm not sure what your suggestion is.

TheRedneck

No that would be really dumb, in fact had there been preparedness perhaps the economy wouldn't have needed to shut down.

Do you understand that?
The birds are chirping...

a reply to: scrounger

to EXPECT US TO PAY a "bonus" to encourage them to go back instead of saying either "your unemployment is gonna run out on this date so its up to you what you gonna do" or say "if you refuse a job (no matter how much you may think its beneath you) you not gonna collect unemployment" is just too much.

The key phrase here is "EXPECT US TO." So far I haven't seen anyone, including the poster you replied to, say they expected anything. Most people I know who are on some sort of assistance (including me) are there not because they expected anything, but because the leaders YOU helped elect CLOSE to hand us some assistance.

Yeah, buddy, I'm on disability. I worked my whole damn life at jobs ranging from crap jobs to good jobs to jobs I had to make by opening my own company. I paid in my taxes just like you do. I paid in the FORCED insurance I probably wouldn't have paid for had I had a choice. But now, do you really expect me to just sit here in the dark and starve after being forced to pay into it? If you do, that explains why we are in such a mess as we are.

I don't like entitlements either. I'd rather work. I DO still work, as best as I can, doing what I can here. It's not much, but it's all I got left after spending a lifetime helping to create the economy you enjoy today. So take your able-bodied bull crap somewhere else... because someday you might find yourself in need too, and I hope you remember your words when that day comes.

TheRedneck

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

No that would be really dumb, in fact had there been preparedness perhaps the economy wouldn't have needed to shut down.

OK, I can agree with that. What preparedness though? I mean, how does one prepare for the unknown?

Any exact suggestions?

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

No that would be really dumb, in fact had there been preparedness perhaps the economy wouldn't have needed to shut down.

OK, I can agree with that. What preparedness though? I mean, how does one prepare for the unknown?

Any exact suggestions?

TheRedneck

Not really other than listening and heeding the advice from the people who's job it is to mitigate these problems.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Seems to me the people whose job it is to mitigate the problem have been the ones causing the problems.

The MSM has spent untold man-hours and airtime making sure everyone is terrified of a virus with a low death rate and a pretty specific target population.

The medical profession was obviously understaffed and running far, far too close to capacity.

The WHO was complicit with China in withholding critical data.

The medical advisors were the ones who suggested closing down the economy.

The CDC, unintentionally or intentionally, skewed the numbers.

The state governors closed the economy, and in many cases violated inalienable rights in the process.

Those same governors in some cases purposely sent infected people into areas where the virus was extremely dangerous.

All I saw the White House do wrong was listen to their advisors... which is the exact thing Congressional leaders have been demanding even while it was being done.

Seems to me there is a whole crap-load of blame to go around.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
I feel bad for you guys in the U.S because the commander in chief dropped the ball

Wrong answer

originally posted by: JIMC5499

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
I feel bad for you guys in the U.S because the commander in chief dropped the ball

Wrong answer

Oh so perhaps you can explain to us all what he did right and how he prevented this virus from causing a major disaster..

a reply to: TheRedneck

Seems to me the people whose job it is to mitigate the problem have been the ones causing the problems. 

The MSM has spent untold man-hours and airtime making sure everyone is terrified of a virus with a low death rate and a pretty specific target population. 

The MSM are not either doctors or scientists tasked with the job of mitigating infectious diseases.

Reality is the doctors and scientists tasked with the job were ignored.

originally posted by: sine.nomine

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Ummm... I just want to be clear here... are you saying we should have shut down the economy before the pandemic materialized? Maybe in 2017? 2018?

Otherwise, I'm not sure what your suggestion is.

TheRedneck

No that would be really dumb, in fact had there been preparedness perhaps the economy wouldn't have needed to shut down.

Do you understand that?
The birds are chirping...

Was that aimed at me ?

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Give me a couple hours when I can get to a computer.

originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Give me a couple hours when I can get to a computer.

Take your time...

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

The MSM are not either doctors or scientists tasked with the job of mitigating infectious diseases.

The MSM are tasked with providing the information to the people. They instead provided often false and continually panic-inducing stories to try and exacerbate the fear.

Reality is the doctors and scientists tasked with the job were ignored.

What?

You cannot be serious!

The medical profession has had their recommendations followed to the letter! It was medical professionals that suggested the closure of the economy. That was done. Dr. Anthony Fauci has been the focal point of every Task Force briefing. Dr Deborah Birx has been the secondary focus. The media is falling over themselves to get interviews with anyone who specializes in infectious disease. Every single governor has listened to their public health officer... in Alabama, Governor Queen Kay Ivey didn't even sign the restrictions in her Executive Order! The State Health Officer sent her a letter recommending what he wanted and she just signed an Executive Order to do what he said and included the letter!

The whole problem has been because the medical professionals were listened to and not experts from other fields as well. Because of that, we have people waiting in close lines outside stores until they can get in, hours of standing in close proximity to each other so they can "social distance" for 15 minutes... we have increasing suicide rates... we probably have an increase in domestic violence and child abuse (we won't know until the abused are allowed to return to public life)... we have people waiting for hours in food lines because they have no way to make a living and buy food.

Dammit, man, we are having freakin' socially-distanced parades to honor health workers!

Please, just stop with the bull crap. Some of us want this problem fixed instead of just trying to score your cheap political points.

Damn, I'm sorry now I gave you the benefit of the doubt to discuss this with you.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I think your misunderstanding what I am saying.

there is a difference in entitlements and legit (my words) aid.

along with the difference between TEMPORARY and (due to specific set of criteria) continuous.

for example unemployment for any able body person is supposed to be TEMPORARY (be they find work or sadly run out) .

if you say are disabled on the job then the state disability for longer (if not life) is justified.
again if LEGIT disabled and not (ex ) cant stay off the booze or drugs.

also (again IF WE HAVE THE MONEY) aiding in a crisis on TEMPORARY time is also ok.
like in a legit pandemic some extra aid.

but not enough that it (in this example) it exceeds what you normally be making when working...
due to common laziness who would not take advantage of that?
but that is something that easily should have seen the outcome and not be done..

but when one (as some here seem to imply) you think your justified in getting money to go back to work when a job is available... thats an ENTITLEMENT.

that is WRONG and yes I call out people who say "they need and deserve this"

yes when one is able to work and just because the job isnt great or it doesnt make as much as they think they deserve they SHOULD NOT BE on unemployment...that is also wrong and turns unemployment into an entitlement .

it is also wrong for politicians who earn a hell of a lot and get great benefits should use TAXPAYER money (be direct or borrowed) to in essence bribe people with (ex) extended unemployment instead of doing what is needed to improve the economy..
or in this case OPEN THINGS UP .

but here (and not directed at you redneck by any means) is the biggest rub...
just because you can get something doesnt mean its right , moral or somehow that absolves you of doing what is in essence WRONG.

let me explain with my case

I have a special needs child that was born with a significant issue that i needed aid .
the state had an early intervention program that got her therapists (of all disciplines) to get her to her fullest potential physically and mentally.

my insurance would not cover it , it was very expensive on my own and thanks to it she physically at least up to "normal children". I did not feel guilt nor thought anyone else in same position or worse should.. it was morally justififed.

now I also was eligible for WIC and food stamps..
boy did the state agencies try three times to get us on the program.

while I could not provide for all the therapists I COULD PROVIDE for food , formula and diapers for her.
I was wrong if I could provide that for me to accept the aid and had to tell them three times thanks but no thanks

not only was it wrong but given state aid is limited budget my not using it enabled it to be (in some small way) more solvent for those in our special needs community who were not blessed as we were.

I NEVER FAULT OR DENY those who legit need help... even on long term basis IF JUSTIFIED.

but saying "because I can" is the attitude of entitlement and wrong.

but in either case the overall problem that no one wants to look at is there isnt unlimited funds.
government is in debt well beyond reason...
hard choices have to be made if you want to keep helping those who truly need it .
that includes limits , those that are able have to step up and the economy needs to be priority, not hand outs because they are too lazy or scared to do whats right.

because the cold hard truth is when not if the money runs out you cant help anyone..

scrounger

a reply to: TheRedneck

The medical profession has had their recommendations followed to the letter

You actually believe that, well on that note you're right there's no room for a conversation.

If your willing to look however start with DR Syra madad and DR Dennis Carroll. There's plenty more if you're willing to expand your horizons.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: TheRedneck

The medical profession has had their recommendations followed to the letter

You actually believe that, well on that note you're right there's no room for a conversation.

If your willing to look however start with DR Syra madad and DR Dennis Carroll. There's plenty more if you're willing to expand your horizons.

so what your saying is redneck called you out and provided facts , along with reasonable summation of events .

YOU didnt like it and since you could not counter him point by point you responded with basically a grade school version of "taking your ball and going home"

scrounger

a reply to: scrounger

I think your misunderstanding what I am saying.

Maybe I did. I hope so, and if I did, I am big enough to apologize.

there is a difference in entitlements and legit (my words) aid.

The problem is that what you may consider illegitimate may in reality be legitimate. For example, I am under no physical limitations from the doctors, and only one prescription med (two if you include the nitro). I can still mow my yard, heck, I can pick things up. But thanks to the PAD and the new lower BP from the surgery, I can only do that for a short time. I can walk for maybe 15 minutes on a good day; I can drive for maybe an hour and a half (you'd be surprised how many muscles are just used in driving a car... I know I was!). I can work a shovel... for 5 minutes or so. After that, there is no second wind, no leaning up against a shade tree to rest even... I will collapse. My legs will literally buckle under me and I hit the ground. There's not enough blood flow to my muscles for them to continue working. The reason I walk with a cane is to let me go a little farther and help me guide the fall if it comes to that.

Someone can drive by my house and glance at me walking around, and think there is nothing wrong with me... but then they don't see the hours laying down in a recliner to recuperate and let the blood flow catch up.

I agree with you that there are some who abuse the system and who just don't want to work. No argument. I saw plenty of them when I was younger and able to work. I still think they should be taken out and whipped... not just for taking what they don't deserve, but because they are taking resources that could legitimately be used by others. I have a friend who cannot get on disability, because the procedures he would have to go through to do so would cause him to lose everything he has. He was lucky, though; he has a ton of seniority and a good reputation where he works, so they make allowances for him. His knees, though, might make him more needy than me. In a perfect world, he would be on disability as well, but we have to make it so hard to get disability that he is left out in the cold. Over the years, I have seen enough situations like his and like mine to try and withhold judgement until I know different.

We are plenty wealthy enough as a nation to care for the disabled, the elderly, and the infirm. We're just too greedy to do so.

Anyway, I am sorry to hear about your child, but happy to hear she is progressing. I hold no judgement over you for using assistance to help her out. I wish her and you the best.

Just be careful tossing out that blame. Some of us already feel bad enough about having to have help.

TheRedneck

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

You actually believe that, well on that note you're right there's no room for a conversation.

I gave you facts that can be substantiated by a simple Google search or just looking through ATS threads. Yes, I believe what I have seen myself over what CNN tells me to believe.

And you're right... to have a conversation, both parties have to be living in the same reality, and I'm not going into unicorn land to meet you.

Have a nice day.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: scrounger

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: TheRedneck

The medical profession has had their recommendations followed to the letter

You actually believe that, well on that note you're right there's no room for a conversation.

If your willing to look however start with DR Syra madad and DR Dennis Carroll. There's plenty more if you're willing to expand your horizons.

so what your saying is redneck called you out and provided facts , along with reasonable summation of events .

YOU didnt like it and since you could not counter him point by point you responded with basically a grade school version of "taking your ball and going home"

scrounger

Maybe you should start listening to the people that know what they are talking about instead of fox and friends and your orange messiah, just saying...

Syra Madad (née Sikandar; born October 22, 1986)[1]is an American pathogen preparedness expert. Madad is the Senior Director of the System-wide Special Pathogens Program at NYC Health + Hospitals[2] where she is oversees New York City's response to the Coronavirus disease 2019 pandemic in the city's 11 public hospitals.[3][4] She was featured in the Netflix documentary series Pandemic: How to Prevent an Outbreak.[5]

wake up already

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

You actually believe that, well on that note you're right there's no room for a conversation.

I gave you facts that can be substantiated by a simple Google search or just looking through ATS threads. Yes, I believe what I have seen myself over what CNN tells me to believe.

And you're right... to have a conversation, both parties have to be living in the same reality, and I'm not going into unicorn land to meet you.

Have a nice day.

TheRedneck

Oh right so now you know more than an expert in pathogens and infectious diseases, good to know next time I can just ignore the experts and take your advice...

It's little wonder why you've surpassed the 100000 dead mark, more than how many wars combined....

a reply to: TheRedneck

you are misunderstanding

doesnt matter what people think they see (in your case) but what you can PROVE.

there always will be douchwaffles that dont believe facts (current gov during corvid crisis) .

its what you can PROVE and thats my point
you walk in and provide proof, no problem
john walks in and refuses to work with no proof... NO AID FOR YOU.

but the biggest difference I think is that you think we are wealthy enough to cover everything even waste.

the truth is we cant and there isnt enough

there maybe if we actually stick to balanced budget , making hard choices and prioritize.
but the way we are not we are TRILLIONS IN THE WHOLE and soon there will not be enough

scrounger