Cell Phone Data Records Shows Shutdown of Wuhan Virology Lab in October

a reply to: ketsuko

So the rest of the world was brought down by a lack of real information. No one knew what they were dealing with until they could study it in action, and they got that chance because China allowed it to spread. Unless someone tells me otherwise, China intended to allow it to spread because they were determined not to be dealt this hand alone. It was a form of MAD.

So, trump laughing and joking about the virus, even when the virus entered America has nothing to do with the slow response? Why is it that most people were hearing about the deaths on the news, well begore it hit UK and America, yet, but leaders were not ready for it.

Just a ridiculous excuse!

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: KKLOCO

Because China has made it pretty clear that they will refuse blame. Where does that leave us?

Pounding sand.

China is in a world of hurt right now. They are coming up on the need to finally pay the piper after decades of faked growth. Companies will leave and move on to the "next" cheap labor pool as they have done so many times in the past. China has lost any credibility for doing quality work that now they are a liability in so many things they have their fingers in.

Add in they want world dominance and that just gets other countries to not only say NO but HELL NO! As companies leave if we add sanctions on top then they don't have much left then to go back to their old ways of total internal economics which will drive them back 30 years in progression.

Companies will not leave China, yes, you wish that to be the case, but will not happen. Do you know bow many millions of people rely in their products made in China?

China want to take over the world? Yes, China have a horrible track record when it comes to the West. But is it China that has bases all over the world? Is it China that has invaded countries and bringing down governments that led to the deaths of millions of innocent people? Is it China who is arming soldiers in the Yemen war that has led to the deaths of innocent men, women and children? Is it China who has funded terrorist in the past to fight their battles?

Maybe loom at your own government (And mine) before you make wild claims that China want to take over the world!

originally posted by: Jay-morris


Companies will not leave China, yes, you wish that to be the case, but will not happen. Do you know bow many millions of people rely in their products made in China?

The question is why they are there in the first place with production on the other side of the planet. And the reason is because they could get cheap labor that overrides the huge shipping distances/costs. This was when a worker was well under 3 bucks per day, but now a typical worker makes 3 bucks an hour and as China moves into their own middle class as Japan, Korea etc already had done in the past to this same reason of America capitalism, that same thing will move on to the next place they can get cheap labor from a country with a lot of poor.

China want to take over the world? Yes, China have a horrible track record when it comes to the West. But is it China that has bases all over the world? Is it China that has invaded countries and bringing down governments that led to the deaths of millions of innocent people? Is it China who is arming soldiers in the Yemen war that has led to the deaths of innocent men, women and children? Is it China who has funded terrorist in the past to fight their battles?

It doesn't matter does it? Every country will have their own agendas, but we are talking business, and China in the last 10 years have been more controlling with foreign businesses and costs have gone way up in everything. One of the reason their quality has dropped off is because they are trying to maintain a cost that is not maintainable, so quality takes a hit in that effort.

I think we can agree that US priorities are different than China's without saying who is right or wrong. With that alone the US will pull back from China and add in that business sense dictates it is time to move on to the next cheap labor market.

Japan tried to buy the world back in the 70s on the back of American capitalism.... They got expensive and we left them and went to Taiwan, then on to Korea, then China...then....whoever can give labor at less than 3 bucks per day.

a reply to: Xtrozero

The question is why they are there in the first place with production on the other side of the planet. And the reason is because they could get cheap labor that overrides the huge shipping distances/costs. This was when a worker was well under 3 bucks per day, but now a typical worker makes 3 bucks an hour and as China moves into their own middle class as Japan, Korea etc already had done in the past to the same reason of America capitalism that same thing will move on to the next place they can get cheap labor from a country with a lot of poor.

Sorry, but what is your point here? The west have been using cheap labour from other countries for decades. So what is your point?

It doesn't matter does it? Every country will have their own agendas, but we are talking business, and China in the last 10 years have been more controlling with foreign businesses and costs have gone way up in everything. One of the reason their quality has dropped off is because they are trying to maintain a cost that is not maintainable, so quality takes a hit in that effort.

I think we can agree that US priorities are different than China's without saying who is right or wrong. With that alone the US will pull back from China and add that business sense dictates they do it to move on to the next cheap labor market.

Japan tried to buy the world back in the 70s on the back of American capitalism.... We left them and went to Taiwan, then on to Korea, then China...then....whoever can give labor at less than 3 bucks per day.

Yes every country has their agenda. Every country has done, or does do terrible things. Why do you think we get so much BS fear mongering news aimed at China? Because chances are, they eill be the next super power. Either them or India. And people in the West do not like it.

I do not like it, but I also do not like countries invading other countries for tbrir own agenda and arming terrorist, and getting away with it by putting a patrioism spin on it.

If we are to survive as a species, we need to go in a new direction and get rid of these sociopaths who look at this world as a toy.

originally posted by: Jay-morris

Sorry, but what is your point here? The west have been using cheap labour from other countries for decades. So what is your point?

My point very simply is the only reason America is in China was because of the cheap labor and that is not there anymore, so time to move on...Just as my post said...lol

Yes every country has their agenda. Every country has done, or does do terrible things. Why do you think we get so much BS fear mongering news aimed at China? Because chances are, they eill be the next super power. Either them or India. And people in the West do not like it.

Went American capitalism leaves China they will be in trouble, they already are....They can hardly build a building today that lasts 5 years...they been skimping on everything to keep driving a faked economy, so all I can say is good luck...

They have peaked years ago and will continue to trend the other way from here on out. They have been building an attitude in the last ten years that they do not need the world and can do it all on their own. Companies are leaving because that communist regime has made it so hard to do business there without giving up your first born that it isn't worth it anymore.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Went American capitalism leaves China 

What, are you saying the only America has capitalism? Next you will be saying America is the
freest country in the world!

China may have peaked, but America us on a downward slide, and it's only a matter of time until the next power hungry country with sociopathic leaders take too spot. Could be China, could be India. One thing is for sure though, this sh#t show will carry on and on, no matter who the biggest super is.

originally posted by: fomalhaut
a reply to: ignorant_ape
I take back my earlier comment about your ignorance. Seaworthy is trying too hard to cover China's arse. You are correct.

Actually I put them all in the same stinky boat, none are clean in my opinion all of this is above and beyond any borders.

originally posted by: Jay-morris

What, are you saying the only America has capitalism? Next you will be saying America is the
freest country in the world!

Well, I was talking about America...

China may have peaked, but America us on a downward slide, and it's only a matter of time until the next power hungry country with sociopathic leaders take too spot. Could be China, could be India. One thing is for sure though, this sh#t show will carry on and on, no matter who the biggest super is.

Not in my life time... America is not on the downward slide...lol If you actually lived here you might even see a huge difference than UK...

a reply to: Xtrozero

Not in my life time... America is not on the downward slide...lol If you actually lived here you might even see a huge difference than UK...

What difference from the UK? And please do not say guns!

originally posted by: Jay-morris

Not in my life time... America is not on the downward slide...lol If you actually lived here you might even see a huge difference than UK...

What difference from the UK? And please do not say guns!

Costco....

I wouldn't know where to start... Just about everything you see as a quality of life we have it so much better. I do admit that since America is HUGE there are places you might not want to live in, but at the end of the day they are not as bad as people assume, but when you have 50 UKs it gives you a lot of breathing room as to where you would like to live and how you would like to live IF that is what you choose to do and all of us make our choices on that. Some people choose poorly, but it is still their choice.

I'm retired military/manager level, single income guy, I'm sure from housing, to cars, to food, to beer, to cost, to entertainment, to schooling for my two kids, to sports, to restaurants, shopping, etc etc. you really can't touch any of it...

BTW I lived in Paris for 4 years and spent a lot of time in the UK/Germany too, also lived in Japan for 5 years and been all over maybe 70 plus countries for comparison.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Jay-morris

Not in my life time... America is not on the downward slide...lol If you actually lived here you might even see a huge difference than UK...

What difference from the UK? And please do not say guns!

Costco....

I wouldn't know where to start... Just about everything you see as a quality of life we have it so much better. I do admit that since America is HUGE there are places you might not want to live in, but at the end of the day they are not as bad as people assume, but when you have 50 UKs it gives you a lot of breathing room as to where you would like to live and how you would like to live IF that is what you choose to do and all of us make our choices on that. Some people choose poorly, but it is still their choice.

I'm retired military/manager level, single income guy, I'm sure from housing, to cars, to food, to beer, to cost, to entertainment, to schooling for my two kids, to sports, to restaurants, shopping, etc etc. you really can't touch any of it...

BTW I lived in Paris for 4 years and spent a lot of time in the UK/Germany too, also lived in Japan for 5 years and been all over maybe 70 plus countries for comparison.

Sorry, I fail to understand bow the quality of life is better in America than the UK? I am not saying quality of life is better in the UK, but I am not claiming it is, so please explain how you came to this conclusion?

originally posted by: Jay-morris

Sorry, I fail to understand bow the quality of life is better in America than the UK? I am not saying quality of life is better in the UK, but I am not claiming it is, so please explain how you came to this conclusion?

I kind of did I think... pick 3 or 5 things you see as a big part of your quality of life? A lot of it is we have much more choices than you. You get X number of choices whether you like them or not...

As example.... you are from the UK you might like beer, I like beer, and I have around 300 micro breweries around me, you might say I like only one beer, GREAT!, but what if you didn't? I have unlimited choices...

Living all over I really like my central air in my house that has two big ACs and 2 heaters in a HEPA filter system, also one could take a shower for an hour and not run out of hot water. you might reply I like my small flat and that I need to use heavy blankets in the winter and hope for a cool breeze in the summer... I could do that too, if I wanted to, but then I could keep my house at XX degrees 365 days a year too.

Its really comes down to choices and cost of those choices.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I kind of did I think

No, you just have your opinion, not facts.

pick 3 or 5 things you see as a big part of your quality of life? A lot of it is we have much more choices than you.

Again, please explain. What can you get in America, which we cannot here, that makes are quality of life not as good.

You do realise that quality of life is different from person to person right?

As example.... you are from the UK you might like beer, I like beer, and I have around 300 micro breweries around me, you might say I like only one beer, GREAT!, but what if you didn't? I have unlimited choices... 

We have micro breweries all over the UK! And many in Brighton, where I live. So, your point is?

Living all over I really like my central air in my house that has two big ACs and 2 heaters in a HEPA filter system, also one could take a shower for an hour and not run out of hot water.

Are you serious? This is pretty much standards in many countries, so what the hell are you talking about?

you might reply I like my small flat and that I need to use heavy blankets in the winter and hope for a cool breeze in the summer... I could do that too, if I wanted to, but then I could keep my house at XX degrees 365 days a year too.

Everything you have said here is standard in the UK. Obviously you have never been to the UK!

Its really comes down to choices and cost of those choices.

Obviously you have no clue about life in the UK.

originally posted by: Jay-morris

You do realise that quality of life is different from person to person right?

I did basically explain that too, but in the end it is the number of choices one might have and what choices are available and affordable. If you feel the top quality of life is a mud hut and one goat, I will not argue with you if that is what you think, as example.

Are you serious? This is pretty much standards in many countries, so what the hell are you talking about?

Actually it isn't... Do you have central air in your house or wall units?

Everything you have said here is standard in the UK. Obviously you have never been to the UK!

Yep must be I never been there, you win...lol geez...

a reply to: Jay-morris

I'm really not looking to do a tit for tat. As I said it is hard to describe to a person who may only know one way of life. I have lived in you neck of the woods and know it well, so you would need to live here where I live to really understand what I mean....You know what you know and the same with me... Hard to debate what you don't know.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I did basically explain that too, but in the end it is the number of choices one might have and what choices are available and affordable. If you feel the top quality of life is a mud hut and one goat, I will not argue with you if that is what you think, as example.

You are not coming out of this looking good my friend. You basically said you have better quality of life there, when you have absolutly no clue about the quality of life in the UK.

Actually it isn't... Do you have central air in your house or wall units?

No we do not need it because of the climate in the UK. China has air conditioning in a lot of flats and houses. Does that mean quality of life is better in China?

We have the National health service in the UK. Does that mean quality of life is better in the UK because if I have an accident, or illness, I do not have to pay hospital bills?

Yep must be I never been there, you win...lol geez...

Well, that's the only reason I can think of why you are not making any sense.

I'm really not looking to do a tit for tat. As I said it is hard to describe to a person who may only know one way of life. I have lived in you neck of the woods and know it well, so you would need to live here where I live to really understand what I mean....You know what you know and the same with me... Hard to debate what you don't know.

I am not saying quality of life is better in the UK than America. Why would I make such a claim when I have never been there.

But the examples you have used to try and prove your point is laughable at best!

originally posted by: Jay-morris

You are not coming out of this looking good my friend. You basically said you have better quality of life there, when you have absolutly no clue about the quality of life in the UK.

I'm not going to argue with you as I said it is hard to explain something that you have not experienced. I can say I can go into my local pub and see 100 beers on tap, I can go down the street into another one and see 100 more but different from the last and pay 4 pounds for 16 oz glass. You say we have beer too, I have seen a pub with a lot of taps, but you just can not really vision that I'm talking about.

No we do not need it because of the climate in the UK. China has air conditioning in a lot of flats and houses. Does that mean quality of life is better in China?

I do not want to act like I'm bragging as to your house/flat is like to mine, but unless that Chinese is well over 400 sq mt most likely not...Why do I have a huge house? Choice and affordability, those two things IS a quality of life right there...

We have the National health service in the UK. Does that mean quality of life is better in the UK because if I have an accident, or illness, I do not have to pay hospital bills?

Two years ago I had surgery across my brain barrier and was out of work for 3 months with a nurse that saw me twice a week as I was on a PIC line dumping heavy antibiotics into my system. I didn't lose a penny in pay and the cost of 250k was a cost of zero to me so I'm not sure what you are talking about? Also, after being on the antibiotics for months I asked the doctor what can I do, and he said we can go in and take it out. I was like OK lets do it, so when can we get it done. This was a Tuesday and he said, how is Thursday afternoon work for you.

This started as me saying life was different and you jump on that asking what is different? And I have said right at the start it is hard to explain unless you been in both places as my example with just beer as simple as that is might be something you just need to experience as to what I mean.

I can say something like I buy my beef by the half cow that is corn/grass fed and pay under 6 pounds a kilo for top quality beef. I could eat 2 inch steaks every night on that cost if I wanted to, and you would say we have beef too, so I just do not think you would understand my point.

This is why a tit for tat will not work as there is nothing I can say that you would get a good picture what what I mean.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I'm not going to argue with you as I said it is hard to explain something that you have not experienced. I can say I can go into my local pub and see 100 beers on tap, I can go down the street into another one and see 100 more but different from the last and pay 4 pounds for 16 oz glass. You say we have beer too, I have seen a pub with a lot of taps, but you just can not really vision that I'm talking about.

What does that have to do with the quality of life. Some people do not drink, some people only like two types of beer. Does that mean their quality of life is bad because that do not have a choice of 100 beers? Seriously?

I do not want to act like I'm bragging as to your house/flat is like to mine, but unless that Chinese is well over 400 sq mt most likely not...Why do I have a huge house? Choice and affordability, those two things IS a quality of life right there...

What, are you saying their are not big houses in the UK? Are you saying you have a better quality of life because you have a bigger house than me? Again! Nonsense!

Two years ago I had surgery across my brain barrier and was out of work for 3 months with a nurse that saw me twice a week as I was on a PIC line dumping heavy antibiotics into my system. I didn't lose a penny in pay and the cost of 250k was a cost of zero to me so I'm not sure what you are talking about? Also, after being on the antibiotics for months I asked the doctor what can I do, and he said we can go in and take it out. I was like OK lets do it, so when can we get it done. This was a Tuesday and he said, how is Thursday afternoon work for you.

See, this is the problem. You are talking about you as if nothing else matters. Are you saying you have a better health care system that the UK? UK is known to have one of the best health care systems in the world. We do not pay health insurance, we do not have to pay to go to the hospital. If I break my arm and go to the hospital, I do not have to pay anything to get it sorted. Yes, if you are working and want something from the chemist, then you will have to pay for that, but if you are not working, then you do mot have to pay for that.

If we have a serious illness, we do not have to worry Bout being turned away because of money.
Are you saying no one has this problem in the US, just because you don't? I can easily find examples if you want me too.

Yeah, you have money, and a big house, and obviously sorted when it comes to health care, but are you saying everyone is in the same boat? Are you saying no one in America fell into financial ruin becsuse of medical bills they could not pay?

This started as me saying life was different and you jump on that asking what is different? And I have said right at the start it is hard to explain unless you been in both places as my example with just beer as simple as that is might be something you just need to experience as to what I mean.

No, you used examples that apply to you, and you also used examples that we have in the UK too.

I can say something like I buy my beef by the half cow that is corn/grass fed and pay under 6 pounds a kilo for top quality beef. I could eat 2 inch steaks every night on that cost if I wanted to, and you would say we have beef too, so I just do not think you would understand my point.

Yeah because we have no quality meat in the UK lolol This is getting ridiculous now!

This is why a tit for tat will not work as there is nothing I can say that you would get a good picture what what I mean.

Well, it would help if you actually have examples, real examples, instead of making it your personal opinion, or using examples we have here already.

That would be a good start.

The way you talk, you would think everyone in America has a perfect life, perfect house, no worries when it came to there health, no poverty etc

News Flash not everyone is having this great life in America life like you are. Just the same as in the UK.

a reply to: Jay-morris

I'll keep it simple... I could not afford my quality of life in the UK, and I would also not have the choices in many things that I have here in America if I lived in the UK.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
a reply to: Jay-morris

I'll keep it simple... I could not afford my quality of life in the UK, and I would also not have the choices in many things that I have here in America if I lived in the UK.

I have not even lived in the UK!

Not everyone has the "quality of life" as you, and quality of life is different from person to person. Someone's quality of life could be the fact that they feel safe knowing if they fell ill, or someone in their family fell ill, they will not have to worry about medical bills or being turned away! Which has happend in America!

Not everyone wants or thinks like you.