In the last 42 days, has your opinion changed on the covid-19 pandemic?

a reply to: putnam6

You are exactly right... yet somehow a voice in the minority (which is seriously disturbing me at the moment)!

We need to actively accept contradictions. Embrace the opposites of the world. Without them, we lose individuality and innovation.

Where I have come to, is that if we ask a question that results in a 50/50 answer (politics, elections, much of polarized science, region/atheism, etc... you name it), then the question needs to re-framed.

We need to stop asking questions in a polarising way, and rather ask them in an inclusive way. Stop our governments form palarising us... I don't believe that anyone, from any "side", that gets 51% of support, should have the authority over the 49%. There are smarter ways to ask mutually inclusive questions than our idiot politicians are seemingly incapable of, and that has resulted in politicians turning governments into a popularity contests.

We are at a crossroads similar to when our ancient ancestors learned "cooperation"; can we incorporate a new social paradigm (as opposed to the existing conflict and defense based approach) that thrives off of contradiction and change?

originally posted by: Jason79
When I first heard about covid, I thought China was trying to hide and downplay the severity, now I think they deliberately made it appear much worse than it really is.

They had people rioting in the streets of Hong Kong. What would be a good way to get them to stop without killing them? Big scary disease. Pick the latest flu and overhype it. Problem solved. Sort of. Had it not become so popular and trashed the world economy. Oops.

originally posted by: karl 12
a reply to: Serdgiam

After looking at the background and people involved in funding organizations like the CDC and the WHO then my opinion has certainly changed.

I don't trust their motives and don't think anybody else should either.

They are dangerous, imo

Nearly everything Ive done in the past two decades is to try to forge a different path than Agenda 21.

Not in opposition, exactly.. Certainly not in support either though.



@Ozzy: Have you looked into the actual design principles behind sites like facebook and twitter?

They are quite open about designing them to be as addictive as possible, and their research led them to do so with anything that causes extreme reactions, with I believe the primary demographic being middle aged women.

Like many things though, I think that the internet itself is just a tool like a hammer. But, its turned into an addiction to use that metaphorical hammer to bludgeon.. everything.. without even a nail in sight.

All in order to maintain the same social structure that has existed since the feudal era (or before).

Interesting question with a complex answer. My opinion of people has changed. This whole agree with me 100 percent or you’re un-American, a murderer, a scaredy baby , a greedy monster, nonsense has to stop. The art of conversation and meeting in the middle to work to a solution seems to have been lost. The people who go on like this are a part of the problem no matter how much they think they are right.

As for the disease anytime I think I lean one way or the other I see or hear something else that brings me back towards the other side. I try to base my opinions based on what I’ve seen and from the words of those I have come to trust. One word I would use to sum this whole thing up is confusion. Nothing adds up in either direction. Maybe that’s the point... who knows.

A couple of days ago I heard from a nurse friend. What they told me was, well, it’s something that forces you stop and think huh?

I won’t say where they worked or their assignment but they contracted Covid. Fortunately it was a mild case something like a bad cold. The hospital wanted them to come into work.

Ok fine maybe they are short handed or maybe if they are working with Covid patients they already have it and it’s better then infecting a healthy person right?

Well, I’ve heard they have unused backups so the first part becomes a moot point. The second? They weren’t working with Covid patients. They were working with non-Covid patients! The hospital wanted them to come in and keep working with them while infected. If that’s the case why bother quarantining if the hospitals don’t care?

They chose to stay home until they felt better. They were punished. Something strange is going on and we are not being told the whole story.

originally posted by: baddmove

originally posted by: nerbot
What Pandemic?

All I have experienced is the disappearance of cash use, the control and manipulation of people and the rise in ignorance of the masses under a lockdown designed to divide and conquer.

The dependance on mobile phones and internet and social distancing has also increased which has made communication inhuman.

I have no experience of anyone ill from a virus, although a good friend did hang herself because of oppression and depression.

This world now sucks and I will destroy those who did this to the best of my ability.

I'm with Nerbot here, I have family in 5 states and not 1 of them knows anyone who knows anyone who knows anyone who has had this virus we hear so much about.. I think we have all been played but I don't know why....

I have always said exactly what you said...No one knows anyone who knows anyone who has it. I can no longer say this. I have friends whose son, daughter-in-law, and 2 children (both under 2) tested positive. My sons friend went into the hospital early March. He's early 30's, no health issues. He was having trouble breathing so they admitted him for breathing treatments. They (the attending Dr.'s) decided to err on the side of caution and vent him for "preventive measures". After being vented things went downhill. Slowly. It turns out that Dr's are now realizing the vent recommendations were wrong. It didn't help those who were positive presenting with breathing issues. It kills them. In the end they start to retain fluid due to their kidneys shutting down. Eventually, cardiac arrest and they die.

The 2 children and wife are and have been just fine. A slight fever and runny nose was all that they had. Another friend had it and he said it was 2 weeks of hell. Some days he felt ok and the next day he was so winded he could hardly go from the couch to the bathroom. He has since recovered and doing fine.

There is a virus out there. We are all going to be exposed to it, one way or another. Closing the economy? For this? No. I smell #. There is much more to this that has yet to be revealed. What? Who knows.

I will say I am amazed at how much stock people put into the media. I am sad at how humanity has once again allowed the media to cause division between humans. If it isn't against a particular ethnic group, or political party, or another country, it's now neighbor against neighbor, family against family member, those for or against immunizations, those who believe the government and those who don't. While we are all busy fighting over who is right and who is wrong I wish each person would admit no matter which side of the fence you are on you believe your point to be the right one. Because it's right for YOU. It feels right in your bones to you. It lines up with what you have searched out and made your own conclusion on the situation. We have all come to our own conclusions. Non of us KNOW for sure if our information is accurate. We believe it to be...but we don't KNOW for sure. You can "feel it in your bones" but that still doesn't mean it's ACCURATE or RIGHT so you can not 100% say that you "KNOW FOR SURE". We will most likely never know the complete truth. We have to remember the things we are hearing and reading, on both sides, are pieces of the big picture. Some pieces may be 100% accurate and some may be 100% inaccurate.

I personally want to tell everyone to wake the hell up. But that's not my place. I can't force my opinions on others just like I don't want someone forcing their opinion on me. Like religion, politics, immunization, the list goes on. We can all find something to disagree with and present all of our research and reason for believing our conclusion. In the end it's only a conclusion based on evidence we hear or see from other sources. We have no personal knowledge, no first hand information to go on. Just words of others.

In the end the fear is death. Everyone is afraid to die. The sad thing is non of us will escape death. It's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when". In my opinion squashing the economy and locking people in their homes is not living, it's existing. Living in fear is the problem. Not the virus. The fear around it.

Last point. I also learned yesterday that another 20 nurses and Dr.'s have been let go. Why? "Because the hospitals are empty". The nurse I was speaking to said her husband works in several hospitals in the area and they are all empty. Only a few in ICU here and there....yet our local news keeps reporting of the numbers going up while re-opening is happening. Then why are Dr's and Nurses being let go. They were told if or when things pick back up they are welcome to re-apply! Are you kidding? Some had been with this particular hospital for 15 years. Gone. Bye-bye.

Yes, my opinion changed. I thought it was total bull#. I realize there is a virus, the hospitals started treating with vents and that is what has killed several. Elderly can't handle it so they are passing. The reports are not able to be believed or verified. There is no truth out there any more. It's all smoke and mirrors. Agree to disagree and join together. Do not let what you believe stand in the way of uniting. If we all believed the same thing life would be boring and we would just all be robots.

Why would my opinion change when just about everything I've said and predicted almost 2 months ago became a reality or is becoming an inevitability?

What amazes me are the people that are so fanatically polarized to hold on to a reality or normality that simply doesn't exist anymore.

Folks are arguing and defending a mentality from a place they aren't physically.

You might want to read that again. I'm guilty of it too, I know that.

What I do know is that TODAY, in my state of California, no matter what "orders" are handed down from either a President, or a Governor or even a lowly county health officer, IT DOES NOT APPLY TO PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS.

When Gov. Gavin Newsom called a state of emergency, he can suspend any state statute, rule or regulation.
(Cal. Gov. § 8571)

8571.  
During a state of war emergency or a state of emergency the Governor may suspend any regulatory statute, or statute prescribing the procedure for conduct of state business, or the orders, rules, or regulations of any state agency, including subdivision (d) of Section 1253 of the Unemployment Insurance Code, where the Governor determines and declares that strict compliance with any statute, order, rule, or regulation would in any way prevent, hinder, or delay the mitigation of the effects of the emergency.

leginfo.legislature.ca.gov...
Please notice that none of that applies to private individuals and the governor does not have the authority to suspend the California Constitution.

As such, any rights contained in the Constitution ARE STILL IN FORCE!!

You might also want to read that again.

In fact, to make sure the government understands that there are limits to their authority, Cal. Gov. § 8571.5 expressly states that nothing in the California Emergency Services Act gives the government the right to seize or confiscate any firearm or ammunition unless an officer is arresting someone pursuant to an investigation for the commission of a crime.

Well.....imagine that.

(Cal. Gov. § 8571.5)

8571.5.  
Nothing in this article shall authorize the seizure or confiscation of any firearm or ammunition from any individual who is lawfully carrying or possessing the firearm or ammunition, or authorize any order to that effect, provided however, that a peace officer who is acting in his or her official capacity may disarm an individual if the officer reasonably believes it is immediately necessary for the protection of the officer or another individual. The officer shall return the firearm to the individual before discharging the individual, unless the officer arrests that individual or seizes the firearm as evidence pursuant to an investigation for the commission of a crime.

leginfo.legislature.ca.gov...

So the Constitution isn't suspended, these "orders" are directed to agencies, not private individuals, the agencies are violating our rights under color of law, and we are just going to sit in our houses and chew our f#ing fingernails???

We can't work, can't pay bills, can't properly feed our families, resources and supply lines are drying up, and these overstepping governors and health officers are mandating what's "ESSENTIAL"!!???

Fining and imprisoning citizens???!!!!

It's not even REMOTELY possible to change my opinion, so don't even try.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: anzha

Yes, my mind was changed.

I thought we were trying to mitigate and treat the disease. The "slow the spread" was just a delay tactic because our healthcare and government were totally unprepared and had no equipment.

Then they come out and say:

"masks don't help you" and we need them all for healthcare workers.

"You can get it if you touch your face and it ends up in your mouth but you can't get it from eating contaminated lettuce McDonalds.

"hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin" work if given early with a 91% success rate but we don't want to use it in the USA because it is cheap and we need a $1,000 a pill remdesivir solution. Also Trump recommended it so we sure as hell can't let him be right at any cost.

We need to keep social distancing but we are going to crowd you into offices and grocery stores.

This whole pandemic has been handled by retards at all levels.

This has been mismanaged at every level due to politics and misinformation.

This is one of the best, most accurate explanations I've heard and exactly what I think.

My opinion has remained steadfast the entire time.

Are we still waiting for next week?

Went from concern over the virus to complete mind number terror over watching the collapse of the world economy.

originally posted by: AutomateThis1
My opinion has remained steadfast the entire time.

Are we still waiting for next week?

It can be seen in full online.

My opinion has changed dramatically. I like many others was following this here since everything started in China, began warning my family about this as early as late December. I bought plenty of PPE and supplies and was prepared. I'll be honest I was pretty terrified when China shut everything down and we still had absolutely zero idea what this illness did. There was no public information available as to mortality , infection rates , even symptoms were all rumors at that point. I trust exactly 0% of information released by China, so even official numbers were a giant guess.

With that being said, the massive over reaction once this started to hit stateside and we started to see estimate infection and mortality rates plummet, to the point where I am confident that a lot of regular deaths are being sensationalized as COVID-19 deaths. (in order to justify the response) I fully think that we have gone overboard, especially in rural areas. I live in Northern NY, my county has 2 active cases and like 20 in mandatory quarantine, yet we cannot go get our hair cut, schools are talking about not opening in the fall, and we have to wear masks (that they swore didn't help when this started) in public.

I know people die from this, I know that it is infectious and spreads. But come on! it is getting to be ri-god-damn-diculous.

a reply to: anzha

Good question.

No, my mind hasn't changed at all. I thought the "pandemic" was overblown at the beginning and I still feel the same way.

About the deaths, you could die from pneumonia after a major surgery and if there was any small chance that you had coronavirus then that's how the death would be listed. Before the media blew it out of proportion, a death like that would have been ruled as "due to complications".

Anybody who thinks we weren't exposed prior to February are simply foolish. This virus has been floating around in America since AT LEAST November which means we've been in the midst of it during Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years Eve & Day. Three of the biggest holidays where we all come together. My in-laws had it in November and they were around my 94 year old grandmother twice and she had an immune system that couldn't stop a common cold.

a reply to: Serdgiam

I have looked into the design principals behind Google and Facebook. The thing about the Google and Facebook tracking API is how much it says about you as a person. That data can be used to create a model of your behavior that is precise enough to test against for almost any product, interest or scenario. And they do run tests against your model, continuously, tens of thousands of times, daily.

The human mind and the behaviors which arise from it can be manipulated by what is offered in a persons social media feed. There is nothing fair or mutual about how these companies do business. It is asymmetric information warfare aimed directly at your head every single time you use their service.

To put it another way it's like wandering in a desert for 40 days and being tempted by ten thousand devils with desires tailor-made to fit you as an individual. Every resistance short of shutting it off and going outside is actually a form of capitulation.

a reply to: Boadicea

Amen sister, and Happy late Mother's Day.

a reply to: Tranceopticalinclined

"This whole covid thing, has really highlighted how we are just a few days away from chaos at any given point."

Just remember, the Civil War started over one accidental squeeze of the trigger...

a reply to: olaru12

Still rolling with that lie, eh?

In the last 42 days, has your opinion changed on the covid-19 pandemic?

Nope.

I thought it was bullcrap at the start.

Two months later I still thinks it's bullcrap.

It's been totally engineered.

By China, and the ususal suspects never letting a crisis go to waste to eff everyone over.

Why do you think the New England journal of medicine doesn’t have political motives? You’re pretending others but not yourself seem to have a political agenda. With this understanding that others do have a political agenda, it’s impossible to supersede that lens. You are aware you are attempting to rewrite history regarding hydroxichloroquine? Dr. Fauci labels it as treatment for Coronavirus (a different strain) years prior to the pandemic, it should go with out saying it should be looked at as a possible treatment. You’ve discounted ALL evidence in support of it as a type of treatment as just political. Why is this? Are you trying to suppress the knowledge it could be a treatment in favor of other methods, perhaps more expensive or nefarious?

As time goes further, we witness the furthering not the lessening of authoritarian control it’s becoming ever more apparent the view of many here are correct. This is a tool used to enact societal changes and monopolization of industries. The impact of our attempt to put the virus as the single focal point of our lives has caused incredible untold damage to countless. Ambulances in NYC have a 2 hour wait for stroke and heart attack victims. Patients are having to delay cancer screenings, the earlier cancer is addressed the more increased chance of survival.

No, my views on this havent changed. Your fear has caused undue damage to the entire world.


, a reply to: anzha

No. I said it was horsecrap then. Its still horsecrap.

Doesn't take a genius to understand that really, really bad air quality is going to drive up respiratory illnesses.

The deal is that the shut down is a democrats dream. It gives them a wedge issue to buy votes with. That is all they want...unemployed people that need them to keep putting cash in their pockets for free.

I am wholly disgusted.

a reply to: anzha

As of May 11th, 2020, the average daily death toll due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) in the U.S. was around 939 since the occurrance of the first case on February 15th. Based on data from 2019, almost eight thousand people die every day in the United States from all causes. During the 2018-2019 (October to April) influenza season, around 161 people died daily on average from influenza. Taking the latest numbers into account, it seems that at this moment almost one out of three deaths in the United States every day have involved COVID-19.

www.statista.com...

Lets do the math here, and we all know I hate math. That's a thousand dead people every single day on average, with latest numbers that boil down to something like what... 9/11?

Every. Single. Day. WTF?

Well. I have a question: did you change your mind on privatizations and free healthcare already, and if not: whats wrong with you?