In the last 42 days, has your opinion changed on the covid-19 pandemic?

For the last six weeks, on the two week mark, I have been asking whether or not ATS has changed its mind about the covid-19 pandemic. I originally asked what it would take to convince people to change their minds[1] about the outbreak and then later moved on to ask whether or not any of you had[2,3]. So far, it has been interesting: little to no one has changed their mind.

When I originally asked, with revised numbers, there were 2,754 deaths in the US from covid-19. The first patient was officially recognized in the US on January 19th, 2020[4]. However, there have been some recent evidence the virus was here even sooner. It has not been put through peer review yet: so the evidence is merely been claimed, but not yet examined by other specialists. In science and medicine, this is VERY important.

The recent kerfluffle over hydroxychloroquine is a really good example of this. Hydroxychloroquine was touted as a cure for the covid-19 virus on many, many levels and by people who are not doctors by and large. There were some claims made that were anecdotal, but no solid science behind them. The drug is used for dealing with parasites like malaria and as an immuno suppressant for conditions like lupus. There was no trace of this as a use for a coronavirus until someone in France claimed it worked and we were off to the races. Finally, real studies have been done. The New England Journal of Medicine - the preeminent medical journal in the world, folks, is American - found no effect for 1,300 patients when given hydroxychloroquine compared to those who were not[5]. Don't trust the talking heads, folks: they often have their own agenda, even if its just 'make the other side of the fence look bad.'

As of today, over 80,000 people have officially died of the coronavirus[6]. This is based on the data for the different states, rather than from the Feds. The CDC data takes longer to collate and vet before release. They're just being cautious. it's not like there are any politics involved in this, right? If we follow from the first case being January 19th (again, it might have been sooner, we're waiting to see the data, not anecdotes), then we have had a covid-19 'season' of 111 days. This gives us a mortality rate of over 720 per day. Since I have been asking, the average deaths per day have been over 1800. In contrast, the flu - which folks like to compare covid-19 to - killed an estimated 62,000 this year on the high end[7]. The flu season ran from October 1st to April 4th, lasting 187 days. This gives an average rate of death of 337 for that time frame. A normal, but had flu season kills an average of 73,000 and lasts about 220 days. Covid has run for half that and killed more.

There are some anomalies with the data though. In NYC, death rates were far above the norm in March/April and most were not attributed to covid[8]. The US deaths in February were FAR above normal or at least the expected[9]. Additionally, most of the country has been in a quarantine and testing hasn't been done for most people. it is hard to tell if the virus has swept through people harming few or if it has yet to reach the populace: the antibody tests are being called into question for their accuracy[10].

The last anomaly stands out by itself. There's a strange twist each state seems to declare people cured or not differently. NY, which has been hit far harder than anywhere else, has had around 27,000 died and 56,000 recovered of their cases. OTOH, Texas claims it has had roughly 38k cases, has around 1k dead and 24k recovered. NYC says they have 260k active cases and Texas claims they have 13k. This seems odd. Are we seeing different definitions of 'cleared?' Or is it a regional difference? Or what?

Additionally, the total active cases is the US is over 1 million. The percent that recover (instead of die) has bounced between 70% and 80% for official cases. If that holds true, then we could see as much as 300,000 more die. That doesn't count anymore people who get added to the case count. I seriously and sincerely hope not. With the reopening of the states looking more and more likely, it remains to be seen how many more cases there will be. One would hope we are through the worst, already, but... with as fscked up as 2020 has been so far, I'm not holding my breath.

At any rate, with all of the above, with all of it said, have you, ATSer, changed your mind about the covid-19 pandemic? Is there any chance you will change your mind? What would it take to do so?

1. www.abovetopsecret.com...
2. www.abovetopsecret.com...
3. www.abovetopsecret.com...
4. www.nejm.org...
5. www.nejm.org...
6. www.nejm.org...
7. www.cdc.gov...
8. www.nytimes.com...
9. www.washingtonpost.com...
10. www.ucsf.edu...

What Pandemic?

All I have experienced is the disappearance of cash use, the control and manipulation of people and the rise in ignorance of the masses under a lockdown designed to divide and conquer.

The dependance on mobile phones and internet and social distancing has also increased which has made communication inhuman.

I have no experience of anyone ill from a virus, although a good friend did hang herself because of oppression and depression.

This world now sucks and I will destroy those who did this to the best of my ability.

a reply to: anzha

Just the orwellian NWO.

Frigging sheeple..

a reply to: anzha
I changed my mind . I thought the average North American ATSer was quite intelligent . Apparently i was wrong .Cv 19 is a killer .

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: anzha
I changed my mind . I thought the average North American ATSer was quite intelligent . Apparently i was wrong .Cv 19 is a killer .

Many, many things are killers.

Depression and oppression are also killers.

Not being able to get treatment for most other health problems right now is also a killer.

The Coronawagon still rolls loudly down the empty streets and when lockdowns are lifted the propoganda will continue.

Not being able to get treatment for most other health problems right now is also a killer.

a reply to: nerbot
Directly related to covind19 no . Add them stats as well then . Like i said , i thought they were intelligent . Foot meet gun .

a reply to: hutch622

No, directly related to the reaction, maybe someone should take those statistics, as eventually they will overtake the death rate of the virus itself.

a reply to: TheLead
In my area, the number of cases reported has declined to 0 as of yesterday.

People took the shelter in place guidelines seriously. People are wearing masks when they are outside.

Hospital services are available to anyone who needs them . One of my relatives had to go in for an outpatient medical procedure. He expressed his concern about covid before he went in and was told that the medical offices were pretty safe.

I wish you all good luck.

I've learned TPTB really really prefer a divided country, and unless the public can withstand all the propaganda, and realize we have more in common than not with our neighbors, it's gonna much more devastating than the CoVid 19 pandemic. We have been so divided into so many levels. Left/Right Man/Woman race wise, region wise,state-wise, religious or not, etc. etc. We must find a way to have basic respect for people's personal choices and basic right to exist free of drama and scorn.

I say this as I get together with my brother and sisters to celebrate our Mom, and even though we have had our nasty fights and arguments over the years and to this day, here we are still laughing and loving each other fiercely, realizing none of us is as good as all of us.

Happy Mother's Day to all the Mom's including the mom to my two fantastic and wonderfully liberal daughters...

a reply to: Wildbob77

My county has always had a low count, very few have taken it seriously. You wouldn't know that from facebook post, but if you've had to be out like me every day you see that many of these people are lying.

I don't know if they're wearing a mask in public and its obscuring their vision or logic, or most likely they are lying to act like they didnt see it due to them not having a good enough reason to be out.

Quite often I need a mask for my work but haven't been able to find them for a month or two. Construction was consider essential even though there is little possibility of distancing and not being able to find the PPE that is regularly needed. Hell job sites are 10-50 deep with no water on the job and using 18th century lavatory practices, with no lysol or hand sanitizer to be found.

Nope hasn’t changed. I live in a major city and have a huge family, but don’t know one person diagnosed with covid19. I’m still of the opinion that large swaths of the world population was exposed and had covid19, but only a small percentage got sick enough to seek medical assistance, making it a not so serious virus.

a reply to: anzha

Nope. My opinion hasn't changed in the slightest.

Because my opinion is and was always based upon natural law and fundamental principles... not the fear mongering and propaganda of political (and greedy) critters were spewing. A few of us said from the gitgo that the fear mongering and propaganda were a greater threat than the virus. We were right.

The numbers don't matter. Not just because they are incomplete, inaccurate, and falsely inflated. But because our rights stand no matter how high or low the numbers are. Pretty much every Draconian measure imposed upon the people could have been recommended and suggested, and promoted and supported with the help of government -- not the force of government. We could have achieved the same slowing of the spread without crippling our economy, families, and society in the process.

The damage done by our "solutions" are far worse than the damage the virus could have caused.

Oh yes, my view has changed on covid... "The Separate States Of America"

I now think our government is a pile of shight ( we now have 50 states of different solutions, not a collaborative effort, great teamwork )

I think the way our people behave is worse than most grade schools

I think the way the WHOLE country has come together, is appalling

This whole covid thing, has really highlighted how we are just a few days away from chaos at any given point.

This has just highlighted how extremely ill prepared the whole world is, but moreso America is.

How can you even get political about something, BOTH PARTIES FAILED MISERABLY WITH?!?!?!?!

www.youtube.com...

a reply to: anzha

At first I thought it had accidentally been leaked by the Chinese from a lab.

Now I think some globalist scum released it on purpose in China to get the blame put on China while the Globule agenda progresses.

a reply to: anzha

My opinions haven't changed at all towards viruses in general or specifically. However my opinions of people, governments and so called leaders has changed.

My area had between 10-80 cases before a lot of the government's screw ups here (UK) and now we've got the highest amount of cases. But we can only blame governments or somebody else for so long.

It's people spreading this. Not governments.

To the people who think it's their right to run around spreading disease and endangering others whilst also setting the example that "I'm exempt"?

[snipped] I wouldn't be surprised if you've personally been filling mentally unstable people's head with doom and gloom. # you.

I even go back on my initial assessment of closing borders and isolating the vulnerable. Because you simply can't trust people.

No....

I believe trump, he said it was a democrat hoax and all those dead people are just trying to make the president look bad.

originally posted by: stonerwilliam
www.youtube.com...

Very much worth the watch sending this to everybody I can.

Also the global economy was screwed before any of this. The rate of borrowing to save us all from dying of poverty is atrocious.

Well... Welcome to a recession, it's crap when it's happening to you isn't it? Yeah let's blame politics, let's blame the boogey man but never blame ourselves or our lame ass identity politics.

a reply to: putnam6

Thank you for the life of me i could not get that video to embed