New leaked video of black jogger gunned down by a white father and son duo

a reply to: vonclod

Keep running. That is all he had to do. I would have. If I saw anyone with a gun I would not run toward them and certainly would be going the other way. They would have to shoot my ass in the back because i have more common sense than to attack someone with a gun.

This is a tragedy that the man who filmed this is now charged with murder. So does that mean everyone on YouTube and WOrldStar should be charged with assault??

As far as hate crime there is no evidence except color of skin. Race bait away....

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: vonclod

Keep running. That is all he had to do. I would have. If I saw anyone with a gun I would not run toward them and certainly would be going the other way. They would have to shoot my ass in the back because i have more common sense than to attack someone with a gun.

This is a tragedy that the man who filmed this is now charged with murder. So does that mean everyone on YouTube and WOrldStar should be charged with assault??

As far as hate crime there is no evidence except color of skin. Race bait away....

Oh..do tell where I'm race baiting..please!! that, regarding ME!

As for the guy following getting charged, I have no idea..I guess they have conspiracy.

And, the guy who got shot, WAS trying to avoid the confrontation.

When confronted by strangers ..who are not LE, with guns..some people flee, some fight, some tuck up into a ball. I guess Ahmaud was NOT the latter..me neither.

a reply to: JBurns
Appreciate your view. I know it's 2020 but I'm having a hard time with a text from a cop would constitute a lawful order. And then does that mean he can form a posse, and chase down someone without a crime being committed In his presence, I'm sorry I do not buy felony trespassing, no intent can be seen to me, I think misdemeanor at most, and it's almost 3 months after the text. Guess we will see how it plays out.

I honestly don't know if these guys thought they would be a hero or what. The daughter snap chatting images immediately after of a bloody dead Arbery is disturbing as well. I think I would not have wanted to know what that family talked about at dinner.

a reply to: vonclod

Wooooooooooo.....not talking to you about race baiting. That is to the whole thread. I was responding only to your question and that is....keep f'n running. anyone who says they would confront someone with a shotgun is lying. This is not a movie. Even if afraid a brain knows not to attack without a weapon.

Have you ever been in a situation where someone pulled a gun? Just a question. Or even threatened with a knife. Anyone worth anything will express in a self defense situation will tell you to get out of the situation not escalate. Again, this is not a John Wick movie.

If you do not have a weapon, and I do, and you attack me, you are a f'n nut and i have the right to protect myself. It is not normal behavior at all. I'd take my chances in court.

a reply to: frogs453

The daughter pics are f'd....I will admit that.

a reply to: matafuchs

Upon more information and thinking about it more. I think i have a pretty good picture of what was going on in his mind, and why he did everything that he did. You are right that i dont think his actions are actually even close to what would be the norm that people would do in that situation, given the context.

He was in a neighborhood, with other people, and it was quite wide open. It wasn't a confined dark corridor with just him and the McMichaels. We arent privy to all the exchanges and words spoken between him leaving the building and the video as well. But seeing the video of how he behaves towards cops, i see no reason why he wouldnt be even more uncooperative with someone who wasnt a cop.

I.E. if a non cop came up to him inquiring about a possible wrong doing, I can see him getting very angry and combative, because that is how he got with the cop, but it would be turned up to the extreme, because he is going to think an average citizen has even less right to even come up to him.

And this ties into the other aspect i suspect he was trying to avoid, and that were the cops. Because it's what i mentioned before, which is he also could have simply waited for the cops if he thought the other people were doing something wrong. But in this scenario i think we can calculate who was more wanting the cops to show up. Also a little prediction, if Ahmaud ended up killing the McMichaels, he would have ran away from the scene, and this would also then end up causing him to look more guilty. Take note, the McMichaels didnt run away from any scene.

But I do want to add, if society and it's law and order is corrupt/broken down, then both Ahmaud and the McMichaels actions were correct. Because thats what you get when the citizens dont think the people around them will treat them as family, but instead as enemies. And this no doubt is probably being engraved even stronger in the minds of the McMichaels. No good deed, or good will, or good intentions will go unpunished, because a slave isnt suppose to be doing calculations like that, they arent suppose to have any of their own sense of good and evil, they are suppose to leave it all to their masters

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: vonclod

Wooooooooooo.....not talking to you about race baiting. That is to the whole thread. I was responding only to your question and that is....keep f'n running. anyone who says they would confront someone with a shotgun is lying. This is not a movie. Even if afraid a brain knows not to attack without a weapon.

Have you ever been in a situation where someone pulled a gun? Just a question. Or even threatened with a knife. Anyone worth anything will express in a self defense situation will tell you to get out of the situation not escalate. Again, this is not a John Wick movie.

If you do not have a weapon, and I do, and you attack me, you are a f'n nut and i have the right to protect myself. It is not normal behavior at all. I'd take my chances in court.

In which direction do you run; forward into 2 guys with guns, or backwards into Roddie, the third guy with a gun, the guy who also blocked the exit path by moving into the left lane to make sure he couldn't escape -- the guy who you can hear rack his own gun in the video he posted before he ran around the corner...

You hear in the video he took, him priming his weapon to fire, and he cuts off escape by blocking both lanes of the road. He knew about the intended plan, which is why he made no sounds at all, not of shock, nor dispair -- he didn't even yell stop fighting... He just sat and watched pistol in hand like the other 2, while making sure there was no exit.

And you're upset he was charged for murder? This was premeditated, and he knew, he was part of the trio.

originally posted by: JBurns
a reply to: frogs453

This is where my own knowledge is hazy as well. I have read he was making the arrest under the direction of a law enforcement officer, and if this were true then the arrest itself would be no different than an arrest by a law enforcement officer. BUT none of that gives carte blanche to use deadly force willynilly. If the group (or posse, assuming one was acting under the law as a police officer) would have made a mistake and it would've ended with solely a false arrest, they'd have been immune only if acting under the lawful direction of a sworn LEO. If acting as private citizens (ie: they decided to make the arrest on their own accord) and they made a mistake? They'd be criminally and civilly liable for claims arising from false arrest, false imprisonment, unlawful use of force, etc.

The use of force and especially deadly force does not change regardless of these circumstances, and is permissible only when life is in jeapardy or in some cases during the unlawful flight of a felon (all depends on the jurisdiction of course).

I've read really good arguments posted by both sides on this, and I can only say in my opinion the use of deadly force was absolutely not warranted here. Even if Arbury had done everything he's accused of, if they knew who he was there's no reason a warrant couldn't be sweared out and he get picked up later. Unfortunately what it will come down to is whether or not the actions were legal. Whether the arrest itself was legal and then whether the use of deadly force was justified

The problem here is, there was clearly a struggle for the weapon and that by itself is a justifiable reason to use deadly force. Unless of course the arrest was unlawful, in which case Arbury may have actually been defending himself vs. unlawfully resisting arrest. The question then becomes, under the law, even if their arrest (while acting as private citizens) was unlawful, does one have the right to resist arrest under any circumstance? If he/they were acting as law enforcement officers (under the law, through following the lawful order of a police officer) the answer is clearly "no"

Lots of open questions here and some will be possibly litigated for the first time. I think ultimately any hopes of getting a significant conviction is unlikely. Although I have no doubt the deadly force itself was preventable.

I do know the existing prosecutors have made a real mess of things. I think this illustrates clearly why empty handed skills, clear knowledge of the law and the willingness to take a step back and evaluate the situation (before, for instance, putting yourself in a position where your weapon is in jeapardy) are so important to have as skills

Cops don't give people permission to arrest someone in their stead. They had no badges, no authority -- you don't have to listen to someone who isn't a cop. When a cop gives you permission for citizen's arrest, it's because they are there, and you are cooperating directly with them -- there are no cops present, there is no authority. Even if they were given permission by law enforcement, how would Arbery know they were? Why would he have any earthly intention of cooperating with a band of regular people pointing guns at him?

There have been law enforcement officers who died trying to make arrests in undercover street clothes, or even survived -- where the shooting was ruled legal self defense because the police didn't identify... And if you have no way to know if someone is police, you have every right to defend yourself and defy orders, because they have no authority to give them.

It's really that simple; did we all forget that Tupac Shakur shot 2 cops in Oakland California and spent exactly 0 minutes handcuffed over it? It's because they failed to identify.

a reply to: Gryphon66

You know, if you are confused or dont understand something you can simply ask me and explain what you dont understand or dont think makes sense. And then i will be happy to oblige you, in either enlightening you, or you enlightening me. Because maybe what i said was wrong, or doesnt make sense.

But! Simply throwing names of fallacies at me, without explaining how/why/where they apply, do not in any way help.

So i suppose i have to employ my mind reading abilities once again?

But this will be fairly short because I am quite drained right now, doing all the work oneself can be quite tiring, dont you think?

I suspect you disagree or dont like that i was arguing that the word "recent" or "recently" when applied to this context, meaning crimes and this situation in particular, should span for at least 1 year back.

But thats the nature of an ambiguous word, it will be used in variable ways. And if we are talking about a string of crimes, a thief or criminal isnt going to do everything all in one day or week, that will bring too much attention/heat, they are obviously going to spread it over a longer time span. And if all the events are connected or tied, then they should all be applicable, especially if a recent crime was much more recent. It means that the crime spree still hasnt ended and the perp/perps are still at large. And at that point I think it is fine/accurate enough to call it a recent string of crime.

a reply to: matafuchs

Wooooooooooo.....not talking to you about race baiting. That is to the whole thread.

Ok

Have you ever been in a situation where someone pulled a gun? Just a question. Or even threatened with a knife.

I have been home invaded, so..yes. Vastly outnumbered, had no chance to do anything, was much younger, they took what they wanted and left. I had a good friend, lived about 7 block from me, got shot in the throat in a robbery, he died..badly, for nothing, he did nothing! After that, I'm not going down without a fight.

If you do not have a weapon, and I do, and you attack me, you are a f'n nut and i have the right to protect myself. It is not normal behavior at all. I'd take my chances in court.

I think Ahmaud felt he was being attacked..jm2c. Hard to say how one reacts till in it.

summit.news... HjFEEoH9TFWLKQAS-JqaYjXevUBFJbenjro

But when a black man attacks an elderly white man “BECASUE HE IS WHITE”, all the liars on this thread are silent?

Go figure

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
summit.news... HjFEEoH9TFWLKQAS-JqaYjXevUBFJbenjro

But when a black man attacks an elderly white man “BECASUE HE IS WHITE”, all the liars on this thread are silent?

Go figure

Shoot that guy in the head, fine with me.

a reply to: Breakthestreak

I haven't come across anyone defending his actions. He was also arrested within hours of the video being posted on Twitter. They believe it happened 5 days prior. He deserves everything they throw at him as well as the nursing home if they were aware of it. He's an evil individual. Also, the police did not have the video prior and decline to press charges for months.

You do realize that we may never have heard much about the Arbery situation if there was an arrest back in February. The fact that there is a DA who's been investigated and sued previously, a corrupt police department and no charges filed against someone affiliated with those departments will rightly cause some outrage. It took taking the case out of the local department to even have any charges filed. 3 months later.

You can't compare one case against the other to fit your narrative.

a reply to: SRPrime

You have no proof of this...

This was premeditated, and he knew, he was part of the trio.

And no, he should not have 'run backwards' because that would have been the way he came and into more action. He should have continued to run forward away from all of them....if he was scared but he wasn't because he thought, in his head, he was gonna disarm the crackass and kill them all. He lost.

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: Breakthestreak

I haven't come across anyone defending his actions. He was also arrested within hours of the video being posted on Twitter. They believe it happened 5 days prior. He deserves everything they throw at him as well as the nursing home if they were aware of it. He's an evil individual. Also, the police did not have the video prior and decline to press charges for months.

You do realize that we may never have heard much about the Arbery situation if there was an arrest back in February. The fact that there is a DA who's been investigated and sued previously, a corrupt police department and no charges filed against someone affiliated with those departments will rightly cause some outrage. It took taking the case out of the local department to even have any charges filed. 3 months later.

You can't compare one case against the other to fit your narrative.

Did YOU call him a racist?

Did YOU label it a hate crime?

Comparing the reaction of leftists to these two crimes is eye opening

One of the crimes is actually a hate crime and the other is not

a reply to: vonclod

Totally two different scenarios. This is not a home invasion. No one is boxed in. The media keeps saying this but it was a truck in a the road. Last time I checked trucks do not cover both lanes fully. He could have run to someones house and start yelling. Anything but towards someone who is armed.

A robbery in a home is a different story and yes if it was to try to save my family I might rush someone if I was out of ammo but I am prepared for these situations as you are.

That was not the case here. There was no reason to go at the person with the weapon. Watch the video and do not listen to the media. There is no shot until he is coming at the person with the weapon. I would have done the same thing. If I Am holding a shotgun and someone wants to charge me they will be shot and probably dead.

I continue to say if he would have gone home, like Trayvon, you know, the kid who attacked someone who was following him, he would have had dinner with his parents and lived another day to trespass.

a reply to: Breakthestreak

Considering this thread is not about him why would I? He is evil, a racist and yes it would a be a hate crime.

What does that case have to do with this one? You seem bent on me defending the man who beat an old man or putting a label on me.Feel free to do so if it makes you feel better.

I have usually only posted links to articles. Do I think this is a bad situation? Yes. You have video of other people in and out of the construction site who were not accosted. You have no reported burglaries except the elder McMichael who left his gun in his unlocked vehicle over a month prior. You have the owner of the construction site stating no crime was committed, along with the questionable DA and proven corruption in the police department. I do think the trial should determine the guilt or innocence. The point is... it took a video released by one of the men to even have the wheels turning. You do know if Arbery killed one of the men they would have arrested him immediately and then worried about whatever. I'm sure you'll tell me that's not the case, but I believe it to be true, they would have.

If my opinion offends your view of the McMichaels or the case what can I say? Arbery had his previous issues but that has no bearing on this instance.

originally posted by: matafuchs
He should have continued to run forward away from all of them....

because nothing bad ever happened to anyone who tried to run away from multiple dudes holding guns at them

a reply to: continuousThunder

I guess nothing bad happens to someone who continues to run towards people with guns (while not cooperating with what they are saying) and then attacks them. Oh wait the bad thing is that they die

Whats wrong with the advice that the better thing to do would be to run in some other direction thats not towards them, or to just stop? We dont actually know how it would play out then. And it may have prevented what could have been a simple misunderstanding from turning into a complete circus show drama.

The worst thing would be that he dies, but he died going along with your advice anyway. The positive though would be if the McMichaels were in the wrong, it would have been that much clearer if they still shot him.

As it is now, due to how arbery acted, they are exonerated, because there is now reasonable doubt as to the McMichaels guilt.

a reply to: FellowHuman

man how can you be so disingenuous?
i never gave any advice or said anything i think he should do in the situation.
if anything it's the polar opposite!
it's y'all on team mcmichaels out here armchair quarterbacking all like "oh he should have run the other way"

while i'm pointing out that no matter what direction you run in, it isn't going to help when there's guys pointing guns at you